Version 2.1.7

[meganothing]

In most cases chest offers enough buffer room that you can postpone clogging for years, but in any case, throwing stuff into lava is similar regarding avoiding clogging except you can use logistic bots and chest there making it again a less challenging puzzle that was space casino imo.

The complexity of finding out how to throw away things is already part of the platform puzzle. I.e. to make a non-clogging spaceship most (or all) players already have to add at least a belt to drop asteroids of the ship.

So once a player attempts a space casino this doesn't add any complexity to the design challenge. It adds some more rather trivial work, sure, but it doesn't add challenge unless the player also tries to create a minimal design.

[mmmPI]

You still have to make sure the throughput of the belt is properly dimensionned to carry all the junk to make sure all machines stay active, but this can be alleviated with robots Then you only have to monitor the number of machines and heat towers, and "add more bots" when you add beacons.

The beauty of it is you DON'T have to do that, all you need to make sure of is that the incinerator is big enough to handle a whole stacked red/blue/green belt of trash!

Yes and no, to me that's another way to say almost the same thing, but i think it's missing part of the analogy in your reformulation x), if you only care about incinerator capacity needing to match a full belt, you are not seeing if you have useless machine that tries to ouput on that full belt after it is already saturated which could clog a circular belt if the merge isn't done properly or waste precious quality module !! You do need to consider the throughput of your machine and the belt on which you output stuff; not only if the sink at the end is big enough for the belt, but also, are you not trying to dump too much stuff on that belt. Like if you add beacons, or in the case of space casino, it used to be "with research", that you needed an adaptive machine.

In most cases chest offers enough buffer room that you can postpone clogging for years, but in any case, throwing stuff into lava is similar regarding avoiding clogging except you can use logistic bots and chest there making it again a less challenging puzzle that was space casino imo.

The complexity of finding out how to throw away things is already part of the platform puzzle. I.e. to make a non-clogging spaceship most (or all) players already have to add at least a belt to drop asteroids of the ship.
So once a player attempts a space casino this doesn't add any complexity to the design challenge. It adds some more rather trivial work, sure, but it doesn't add challenge unless the player also tries to create a minimal design.

Haha that's funny, after your claim that 98% players can't use combinators to void fluid, now most players can trivially start doing quality on their platform, with no additionnal challenge compared to a regular platform x). That's not helping your argument because that appears fairly inconsistent to me, and also with observation of what players do and facts, you don't need to drop anything from your spaceship if you don't do quality, you can just filter the asteroid collector and never mess with reprocesssing. But stats shows most players don't even reach that stage of the game lol.

The reprocessing receipe is still there, but if you can't put quality module onto it, you are only made to deal with a fraction of the byproducts , so it is effectively only usable in "simpler build" than before even if you wanted to. But worse there is no point using it for this purpose anymore, because wether you want the simplest or the fastest, or the one that scale the most, every time, you end up doing all that on Vulcanus, using only simple loop with no byproducts.

Throwing stuff with lava can be done 15 items at time, carried by bots when the buffer exceed a certain threshold, which is impossible in space because buffer are harder to make since no chest, you can't use bots and add an item in the requester chest next to the lava when you realize you need it, instead you need to plan you belts smarts or redo part of the platform and also , non-stacking asteroids makes it impossible for an inserter to throw more than 1 per swing.

Besides the complexity of "byproducts" which you don't have much left currently in most guides about quality except for the module themselves.

[meganothing]

In most cases chest offers enough buffer room that you can postpone clogging for years, but in any case, throwing stuff into lava is similar regarding avoiding clogging except you can use logistic bots and chest there making it again a less challenging puzzle that was space casino imo.

The complexity of finding out how to throw away things is already part of the platform puzzle. I.e. to make a non-clogging spaceship most (or all) players already have to add at least a belt to drop asteroids of the ship.
So once a player attempts a space casino this doesn't add any complexity to the design challenge. It adds some more rather trivial work, sure, but it doesn't add challenge unless the player also tries to create a minimal design.

Haha that's funny, after your claim that 98% players can't use combinators to void fluid, now most players can trivially start doing quality on their platform, with no additionnal challenge compared to a regular platform x). That's not helping your argument because that appears fairly inconsistent to me, and also with observation of what players do and facts, you don't need to drop anything from your spaceship if you don't do quality, you can just filter the asteroid collector and never mess with reprocesssing. But stats shows most players don't even reach that stage of the game lol.

What can be done and what many players will do is quite different. All the interplanetary spaceships I have currently built have a drop belt. I would assume using a drop belt makes it easier to design a small spaceship for reaching the first planets because you need less asteroid collectors when they are unfiltered. Anyway, some will choose one, some the other design. Even if they don't have a drop spot though I don't see those be stumped at the "complexity" of making one after having done belt design for all of early game.

What do players who don't reach that stage or the stage of space casinos have to do with this discussion? Nothing.

[mmmPI]

All the interplanetary spaceships I have currently built have a drop belt. I would assume using a drop belt makes it easier to design a small spaceship for reaching the first planets because you need less asteroid collectors when they are unfiltered.

I think for some part it's much more reasonnable worded this way than saying "most player do or don't". I am assuming it was the same about the fluid voider, you never used it yourself and assumed it was more complicated than it actually is and also similarly, none of the interplanetary spaceships you made was a space casino you are only "assuming" how it would be to build one. Correct ? It's a deduction i'm trying based on a pattern i'm seeing here.

I think the number of asteroid collector is mostly irrelevant to the complexity of the task, similar to the fluid voider an example may be useful there ( you can see other platform people post on the thread to have wider sample for opinion that your own ships ) :

complex3collectorship.jpg (669.3 KiB) Viewed 522 times

credits

What do players who don't reach that stage or the stage of space casinos have to do with this discussion? Nothing.

You said 98% players can't use combinator to make a fluid voider by themselves. We are talking about space casino and quality-making methods. I tried a parralel with something similarly irrelevant lol . It's not because you never did a fluid voider that you can assume most players won't, especially when we are talking about the players that were doing space casino. Those players it's fair to assume since you can see it on almost every guide and tutorial will learn how to make fluid voider instead of space casino. Which is my point, the removal of space casino at this stage i feel leaves the game in a state where "one exploit" has been replaced with "another one", when the first one was much more interesting to build.

[coffee-factorio]

In most cases chest offers enough buffer room that you can postpone clogging for years, but in any case, throwing stuff into lava is similar regarding avoiding clogging except you can use logistic bots and chest there making it again a less challenging puzzle that was space casino imo.

The complexity of finding out how to throw away things is already part of the platform puzzle. I.e. to make a non-clogging spaceship most (or all) players already have to add at least a belt to drop asteroids of the ship.
So once a player attempts a space casino this doesn't add any complexity to the design challenge. It adds some more rather trivial work, sure, but it doesn't add challenge unless the player also tries to create a minimal design.

Haha that's funny, after your claim that 98% players can't use combinators to void fluid, now most players can trivially start doing quality on their platform, with no additionnal challenge compared to a regular platform x). That's not helping your argument because that appears fairly inconsistent to me, and also with observation of what players do and facts, you don't need to drop anything from your spaceship if you don't do quality, you can just filter the asteroid collector and never mess with reprocesssing. But stats shows most players don't even reach that stage of the game lol.

What can be done and what many players will do is quite different. All the interplanetary spaceships I have currently built have a drop belt. I would assume using a drop belt makes it easier to design a small spaceship for reaching the first planets because you need less asteroid collectors when they are unfiltered. Anyway, some will choose one, some the other design. Even if they don't have a drop spot though I don't see those be stumped at the "complexity" of making one after having done belt design for all of early game.

What do players who don't reach that stage or the stage of space casinos have to do with this discussion? Nothing.

Screenshot 2026-07-25 184302.png (1.28 MiB) Viewed 435 times

The developers considered voiding with a drop belt to be such a necessary skill it's packaged in the games tutorials.

Controlling the asteroid collectors with filters is a more advanced skill, particularly since you still have to deal with material imbalances coming off advanced processing that won't be addressed by correctly filling a buffer with rocks. You'll need to void those, but that lends credence to the idea that rerolling requires skills that are acquired at normal quality. Since this lifts a speed limit imposed by the normal quality fuel/oxidizer recipes on platforms, not to mention gives you countably infinite copper and iron ores.

That could be all, but the reality is that someone also has to complete Gleba and Fulgora to really see a need to use rare+ items. Not to mention unlock the plus part of that statement. You can drive a reroller to give you iron as early as Vulcanus, but completing it requires completing those two planets and knowing how to solve puzzles that are more complex.

[mmmPI]

The developers considered voiding with a drop belt to be such a necessary skill it's packaged in the games tutorials.

Necessary for what ? duuuuh Anyway that's not how it works, look devs also put tutorials for power switch. Following your reasonning it would means that using power switch is such a necessary skill ? No ! Plenty of other things are explained because they are in the game despite not being strictly required for anything. There are plenty platform without a drop-belt on the thread i linked in credits where you also posted yours, i thought you would have had the opportunity to realize for yourself , take some inspiration or learn new ideas to try and refine your own platforms ! There are different methods for this from the simplest elegance to the most bizarre spaggethi

Controlling the asteroid collectors with filters is a more advanced skill, particularly since you still have to deal with material imbalances coming off advanced processing that won't be addressed by correctly filling a buffer with rocks.

I didn't explain the picture that was posted, maybe it's the source of the confusion, you may have not noticed but in the simple version you don't need to "control" the filter, you need to set them once, they won't change they are static, you don't need to use the advanced asteroid processing either to make a spaceship. That is even quite counter productive if you are going for simplicity

I believe this is the same kind of subjective arguments where because of your particular playstyle you may have overcomplicated things for yourself, missing some straightforward solution sometimes judging by your platforms but i believe it's fairly clear for players that there is a gradual increase in complexity between regular static platform, which you start with to learn stuff, then basic space ship that moves in quite safe space, then spaceship that require rockets to shoot down huge asteroids, and then it was more complex when you added quality module to them. Part of it is linear research, but not quality. Now in any case, you can sidestep all this "complexity" by just launching the ammo from Nauvis. EXCEPT for the space casino part .

Space Casino you couldn't just side step the need to deal with all the non-stackable quality byproduct without robots nor chest for buffer. This is objective. No matter if your experience level makes it obvious or not. You need a rationnal argument here.

It was much more impressive and satisfying to me than a couple single product upcycler, LDS shuffle and fluid voider. This is subjective. I understand someone who could have a different opinion there x)

[coffee-factorio]

The developers considered voiding with a drop belt to be such a necessary skill it's packaged in the games tutorials.

Necessary for what ? duuuuh Anyway that's not how it works, look devs also put tutorials for power switch. Following your reasonning it would means that using power switch is such a necessary skill ? No ! Plenty of other things are explained because they are in the game despite not being strictly required for anything. There are plenty platform without a drop-belt on the thread i linked in credits where you also posted yours, i thought you would have had the opportunity to realize for yourself , take some inspiration or learn new ideas to try and refine your own platforms ! There are different methods for this from the simplest elegance to the most bizarre spaggethi

No, that's how it works. The power switch tutorial clarifies the basic operation a device and its intended function. The fact that "a tutorial exists to address basic operations" directly proves my point. Thank you for reproving my point. It's necessary to say that the power switch is a circuit driven device and have a demonstration of use. Technically, it's optional. But then so is quality and rerolling!

Trying to exaggerate what is a basic skill is more the driving theme of the conversation. And it's just kind of tiresome.

Having to use filters and circuits for a thing to just get it moving is an option. But it isn't the one depicted in the tutorials. On top of that, between your hypothetical reroller player and reality is a depth of scenarios where a player becomes skilled in other ways.

As for the thing I'm required to explain. You're kind of trying to distract from facts and logic with Dave's ship. Dave built a nice ship. Dave does many nice things. Why you working so hard? Be more like Dave, they are good.

Trying to come up with scenarios where this social identity of a player who is simultaneously good enough to invest in the best optimization around and bad enough to not understand how the intermediate parts... isn't small? Can't be entertained with reasoned arguments?

Granted you can't seem to be that but people who can't make basic steps to reciprocate feelings like that don't have sides or countries. When that is appropriate and enforceable is the subject of a political career.

Which you don't have. You have a musical creative outlet that can get you more attention. You don't have to leave you LLM running all night, to be popular and uh, it might just be that is your problem frankly.

[mmmPI]

It appears from the tone of your message that you are venting some kind of personnal frustration that has nothing to do with the space casino or the game at all, it's not worth answering in details, i suggest you take some rest if the discussion is tiresome.

Factually, you couldn't really side-step the complexity in space casino , you had to deal with the several byproducts with the different non-stackable chunks of different quality levels, you could throw stuff to space, but that is the same as throwing in lava on Vulcanus, a bit worse because you can use bots on Vulcanus, and buffer chest.

Factually you don't need the advanced asteroid processing, as can you launch ammo from Nauvis and reach the solar system edge just fine, thus you can side step the complexity of the advanced asteroid processing . You don't need drop-belt either, and that can be simple and elegant as illustrated by Dave's nice ship.

Space casino was requiring that, devs never said it as trivial or easy to build one AFAIK it was "too rewarding". But currently you can't put quality module for the reprocessing, so the puzzle is gone, not just the too big reward.

Currently LDS shuffle and fluid voiders are the "late-game recommended" build for quality in the most popular guides, alongside simple recycling loop with no byproducts, like "iron chest", even easier than "underground pipes" but still product that all turn into iron plate. I don't think it's what the devs intented to.

[coffee-factorio]

Currently LDS shuffle and fluid voiders are the "late-game recommended" build for quality in the most popular guides, alongside simple recycling loop with no byproducts, like "iron chest", even easier than "underground pipes" but still product that all turn into iron plate. I don't think it's what the devs intented to.

A fluid voider has nothing to do with quality. That's uhm. Completely unrelated. You left your LLM on and uh... it's not that I have to hate on that it's just that Gemini gives better summaries.

Factually, you couldn't really side-step the complexity in space casino , you had to deal with the several byproducts with the different non-stackable chunks of different quality levels, you could throw stuff to space, but that is the same as throwing in lava on Vulcanus, a bit worse because you can use bots on Vulcanus, and buffer chest.

And you can tell, because the AI is kind of being forced to admit (to the extent that it can) that it is as simple as we're pointing out. It tries to flip the argument on its head by saying "well, really you always had to deal with only these factors". But it can't really refute that those are factors that take skills that are in a basic tutorial (and to the extent that the fundamentals are even baked into the games tutorials).

Factually you don't need the advanced asteroid processing, as can you launch ammo from Nauvis and reach the solar system edge just fine, thus you can side step the complexity of the advanced asteroid processing . You don't need drop-belt either, and that can be simple and elegant as illustrated by Dave's nice ship.

And then it starts hallucinating about things that you might have seen been done by a really skilled speedrunner on youtube (ironically). And that's just not common player behavior. Nor is it something that Dave's ship could do reliably. Dave gives accurate technical descriptions of what his things can do, to the best of the knowledge he has. You need to be more like Dave.

Now stop sending me awkward PM's. Your Gleba base is perfectly average. You don't need to see a doctor, the red stuff is Yumako mash or bioflux. That's supposed to be there. It's not big. Certainly, if you invested in legendary buildings properly it could be smaller. But powerful.

You don't need to worry though. It's average. Indeed, it's very functional for its size.

[mmmPI]

A fluid voider has nothing to do with quality. That's uhm. Completely unrelated. You left your LLM on and uh... it's not that I have to hate on that it's just that Gemini gives better summaries.

Chill dude here is what you missed , fluid voider for quality stone => https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1157&v= ... e=youtu.be

Before that it was done using space calcite... Nilaus explained it well in his video, i thought you had listen to it as you mentionned using his blueprints. if you don't see the connexion after it was discussed on this thread extensively, i guess it's ok, it's quite advanced , and you don't strike me as a particularly skilled player. That could explain it.

[coffee-factorio]

A fluid voider has nothing to do with quality. That's uhm. Completely unrelated. You left your LLM on and uh... it's not that I have to hate on that it's just that Gemini gives better summaries.

Chill dude here is what you missed , fluid voider for quality stone => https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1157&v= ... e=youtu.be

Before that it was done using space calcite... Nilaus explained it well in his video, i thought you had listen to it as you mentionned using his blueprints. if you don't see the connexion after it was discussed on this thread extensively, i guess it's ok, it's quite advanced , and you don't strike me as a particularly skilled player. That could explain it.

And don't get me wrong, it would work. It's got entertainment value when Nilaus presents it. But you just kind of chose the worst possible strategy because, yeah, that strategy works when Nilaus presents it. When you select it, the strategy is presented out of its operations context and it has a bunch of caveats that you personally can't explain.

Such as: Nilaus doesn't just do a stone furnace upcycle while making Metallurgic science? It requires 100 molten copper per pack and half with productivity, but you inevitably want to scale metallurgic science more than that.

Or off of any other quality assembly line worth scaling on Vulcanus? That's the thing, if you do an underground pipes build, you probably get enough stones to do anything that cycle would do. It succeeds at its use case of making stones in a context where, I'm already going to be making a lot of stones.

You aren't being like Dave mmmPI. And you already started this conversation with "Youtubers in general scary". But the thing is, if Nilaus has a fan here. I'm pretty sure they'll realize you haven't failed one quiz, and like. A man can criticize another man's work. But just pulling a weak part of an otherwise solid portfolio out of think air is kind failing a different quiz. Nilaus can have a bad day because he just isn't sick all year round.

Does Nilaus explain why I need that strategy instead of a large metallurgic science line?

[mmmPI]

There is no need for me to explain anything, the video was made by some popular youtuber that are good at that, if you think it's unrelated , it's your opinion, it's fine

I was saying that in tutorials and guides currently for quality you can see fluid voider and LDS shuffle and simple upcycler with no byproduct, and i wonder if it was the intent of the devs in removing space casino because it doesn't seem satisfying to me.

[coffee-factorio]

I was saying that in tutorials and guides currently for quality you can see fluid voider and LDS shuffle and simple upcycler with no byproduct, and i wonder if it was the intent of the devs in removing space casino because it doesn't seem satisfying to me.

Hard to say. The developers play their own game.

The stated intent was that the system was to be easy to learn and hard to master and very exciting. I find that's in line with what has been delivered. Assuming it will be satisfy is a mistake. Gambling is not a satisfying practice.

Part of what makes a Jackson Pollock a satisfying piece of art, is that you only see the full measure of a man when you spend a million dollars on an original. And you can make a million dollars still on selling unsatisfying reproductions whose scale will never show the energy that goes into unloading five pounds of paint onto a canvas with the fury only one man had.

You might want to think about the puzzle you've been handed as a work of art, unrelated to other ones you've been given thus far.

[mmmPI]

The stated intent was that the system was to be easy to learn and hard to master and very exciting. I find that's in line with what has been delivered.

Yeah, but also you didn't know the fluid voider was used for quality. When to me it appears on the contrary that it is now in most guide and tutorials as a side-effect of the removal of space casino. So it appears to me as if you claim to like the new version , without understanding the implication of it. Like if you ask someone if they like the painting and they say yes because it's red and they like red. But the painting is a deep blue sea x)