We support Ukraine

[Djmixxx]

This is a gross lie by djmixxx

Here is the post where he decided on its own, for no reason, not related with the conversation AT ALL, to talk about afghanistan and the USA :

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/04/biden-c ... raine.html

What an interesting statement from a country , which has issued itself a badge of the world policeman and spits on all laws.

Re: Impunity for war crimes in Afghanistan: Threats & reprisal by the US against the International Criminal Court and its Prosecutor

https://www.lrwc.org/european-union-ens ... nal-court/

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/04/biden-c ... raine.html
"Biden calls to put Putin on trial for war crimes over Russia killings in Ukraine" -
I agree, there is absolutely no connection with the situation in Ukraine. For you.

[mmmPI]

So it is a smear campaign only if we talk about unverifiable rumours. It is not smear if you can provide the evidence under the form of quotation that someone like djmixxx posted ALL his post on this particular thread.

He registered for it, this is verifiable by clicking on his profile the date and time of registration is just before the first post he did, which was on this topic like all the others.

He decided to switch topic because he has an agenda, he was arguing about the steel prices and then switch to war crime, he started to talk about ethnic cleansing (first post), and along the way mention bioweapon (first week) , and also every single talking point of the kremlin. ( including blaming the red cross for being pro-ukraine and a week later pro-russian ).

This is not coherent narrative because it mixes several ones that are not supposed to be adressed to the same group of person.

For example the war crime should get trialed, why bringing quote of biden here if not to talk about USA ? there is an argument that doesn't need to involve the USA to say war criminal like Putin should be trialed, but then there is no possible defense except well trying to target someone else, to try and mirror the blame. Which is what djmixx has been doing repeatdly.

Here is a quote saying he decided to purposedly post links to try and manipulate opinion :

I will post information related to Ukraine. Maybe she's one-sided.
I try not to take information from official Russian sources.

All your objections: I manipulate opinion. Yes, even if so. I only stir what angered me.
I am not forbidding you to post anything. As long as you only blame me.

Djmixxx also posted video of propaganda and call to murder, but then edited his post but not quite fast enough for me to have opened the links :

Wrong post

This is a text that he already tried to burried :

I agree, the topic is serious, sad is euphism. I disagree with the forum thread being a joke, i think it's more a garbage where nothing is funny or supposed to be funny, it's like a wasted opportunity, something that could have been/ could be, and instead is not.

[...]

Another narrative could be "some people are paid to post bullshit repeatdly in order to contaminate all open places of discussion and turning it into what you have described". Then the reasonnable individuals are left with no choice other than to enter an information bubble to avoid those aggressive disinformation. Since all public-open discussion are suscpetible to those flood/spam people have to register into circles that dismiss newcomers. It forces people to leave anonymity to enter those group, and expose them to repression or surveillance. Or it attract them to propaganda/brainwashing/self-declared-genius-guru circles. It ruins the ability for everyone to interact with everyone else, effectively attacking a certain vision of the world, ideologically and on purposes.

Another detrimental consequences that i see of this desinformation by flood/spam of low quality copy paste is that it challenges the ability of human beings working to provide such public-open discussion space. How do you deal with that without denying your own principle of free speech is a difficult question, any measures is felt like a balance, a trade-off between more of moderation, or not. The very fact of aggressively copy pasting trash content to flood channel of communication/media i see as putting pressure volutarily to make your "opponent" do mistakes.

In this regard i think opening the thread was a risky stand, but it yields good results, i don't think anyone read this while trying to inform oneself. This is factorio forum. One cannot miss that there exist in the world people supporting Ukraine, no matter how deep you are in your information bubble. I also think that's why it's getting targeted because there is a russian audience to factorio and that's the main target audience of the flood. There is to me hardly any reason to go in a thread called "we support ukraine" to post content that is not aligned with the title, REPEATDLY, that's not the same as people coming by.

Interestingly though, when you come to the thread and it look like there is a heaten debate, it becomes "natural" to pick you side, and use your "free speech" to voice it. It doesn't seem logical anymore to just post your support to russia in a forum that took a pro-russian stance. This de-facto situation where even a moderator consider it's just a bunch of people trying to outshout each other is enough to justify the pause in the flooding because it means the objective is achieved imo.

Given the tool available it's a challenge to appeal to the reason of people and not their feeling or emotion, so that they realize how propaganda work.

[mmmPI]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassina ... is_Nemtsov

He died hours after appealing to the public to support a march against Russia's war in Ukraine.[10] Nemtsov's Ukrainian partner Anna Duritskaya survived the attack as its sole eyewitness.[11]

The assassination was met with worldwide condemnation and concern for the situation of the Russian opposition. Russian authorities also condemned the murder and vowed to conduct a thorough investigation.

I found interesting the discovery that he was followed by the FSB until the day just before, it seems like there are some people not willing to hear opposition to the war in Ukraine. It was the case back then, when Crimea was seized, it doesn't appear to have changed :

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/03 ... 15-murder/

Zaur Dadayev, a former Chechen security officer close to Chechnya’s ruler Ramzan Kadyrov, was convicted of the murder by a Russian military court. Despite an initial confession in pre-trial proceedings that he subsequently said was made under duress, Dadayev has maintained that he and five other Chechens tailed Nemtsov for months but did not commit the murder. Russian human rights defenders have suggested that Dadayev was tortured in pre-trial detention. Neither the official investigation nor trial established why Nemtsov had been killed, nor who had ordered the assassination.

The precise motive for that assassination remains a mystery to this day. The accused initially claimed that the Chechen group had committed the murder as revenge for Nemtsov supporting the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo which had been attacked by Islamist militants. This pretext disintegrated after it was found that the suspected killers began following Nemtsov before he had made any statements about Charlie Hebdo.

[enterisys]

If you cant steal it, mine it. - russian retreat 101.

you can't trust anyone in this war

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUECYpvV6lY

What's your video about? A guy defusing another explosive?
Arent you supposed to be bad guy here and post russian military telegrams?

[FuryoftheStars]

Again: That's not an excuse, so why do you keep bringing it up and waving it around?

This thread is about the current war in Ukraine from Russia's aggressions, and technically speaking, specifically about humanitarian support to Ukraine.

So why are you bringing up past events and how "they did it"? The only reasons I can think of are justification or deflection.

The conversation led to this topic.

People like you led the conversation here.

And that doesn't answer my question.




(For size of post reasons, I have removed the header tags from the below quote)

A smear campaign is an intentional, premeditated effort to undermine an individual's or group's reputation, credibility, and character.
Smears often consist of ad hominem attacks in the form of unverifiable rumors and distortions, half-truths, or even outright lies
Smear campaigns are considered by many to be a low, disingenuous form of discourse; they have been identified as a common weapon of psychopaths,borderlines, and narcissists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smear_campaign

You mean like you've been doing throughout this thread against Ukraine?

[ptx0]

I can't care less about this one

Yet you log in and make your first post. Surely you care.

with emotionally charged insults like "little mutts" referring to Americans. lol the FSB is so desperate now

[Overlord218]

https://lenta.ru/news/2022/04/08/kramatored/

So, Ukrainian military used Tochka-U rocket on civilian people in Kramatorsk.

Or is this Again Evil Putin order to kill people for sake of being evil?

[enterisys]

https://lenta.ru/news/2022/04/08/kramatored/

So, Ukrainian military used Tochka-U rocket on civilian people in Kramatorsk.

Or is this Again Evil Putin order to kill people for sake of being evil?

At 10AM russian military claimed it was their tochka-u.

What made them change their mind later?

[Overlord218]

https://lenta.ru/news/2022/04/08/kramatored/

So, Ukrainian military used Tochka-U rocket on civilian people in Kramatorsk.

Or is this Again Evil Putin order to kill people for sake of being evil?

At 10AM russian military claimed it was their tochka-u.

Proofs? Because your screenshoot have none.
(It's just says that Kramatorsk was under fire and in next paragraph it tells that MAYBE there was Ukrainian train)

And another one. Where it is stated that Russian military claimed it?
(Besides, Russian forces doesn't use TOchka-U)

[enterisys]

https://lenta.ru/news/2022/04/08/kramatored/

So, Ukrainian military used Tochka-U rocket on civilian people in Kramatorsk.

Or is this Again Evil Putin order to kill people for sake of being evil?

At 10AM russian military claimed it was their tochka-u.

What made them change their mind later?

Proofs? Because your screenshoot have none.
(It's just says that Kramatorsk was under fire and in next paragraph it tells that MAYBE there was Ukrainian train)

And another one. ANNA news talks about Syria (There is no video about Ukrain on their YT channel)

My proof is russian military screenshot claiming they bombed Kramatorsk.
Your proof - just a russian opinion that this was Ukrainian rocket.
What made them change their mind later?

[FuryoftheStars]

(Besides, Russian forces doesn't use TOchka-U)

That's a good one.

[Overlord218]

https://lenta.ru/news/2022/04/08/kramatored/

So, Ukrainian military used Tochka-U rocket on civilian people in Kramatorsk.

Or is this Again Evil Putin order to kill people for sake of being evil?

At 10AM russian military claimed it was their tochka-u.

What made them change their mind later?

Proofs? Because your screenshoot have none.
(It's just says that Kramatorsk was under fire and in next paragraph it tells that MAYBE there was Ukrainian train)

And another one. ANNA news talks about Syria (There is no video about Ukrain on their YT channel)

My proof is russian military screenshot claiming they bombed Kramatorsk.
Your proof - just a russian opinion that this was Ukrainian rocket.
What made them change their mind later?

So you either:
1) Don't understand Russian Language and use some random post to "Declare" something
2) You not very smart and can't read properly (Don't blame yourself, bad school maybe)
3) You trolling.
If you have screenshoot where russian military claimed that it was their rocket then post it.
Because on your screenshoot there is no proof about Russian rocket strike but there is, definetly, proof about some rocket strike.

[enterisys]

https://lenta.ru/news/2022/04/08/kramatored/

So, Ukrainian military used Tochka-U rocket on civilian people in Kramatorsk.

Or is this Again Evil Putin order to kill people for sake of being evil?

At 10AM russian military claimed it was their tochka-u.

What made them change their mind later?

Proofs? Because your screenshoot have none.
(It's just says that Kramatorsk was under fire and in next paragraph it tells that MAYBE there was Ukrainian train)

And another one. ANNA news talks about Syria (There is no video about Ukrain on their YT channel)

My proof is russian military screenshot claiming they bombed Kramatorsk.
Your proof - just a russian opinion that this was Ukrainian rocket.
What made them change their mind later?

So you either:
1) Don't understand Russian Language and use some random post to "Declare" something
2) You not very smart and can't read properly (Don't blame yourself, bad school maybe)
3) You trolling.
If you have screenshoot where russian military claimed that it was their rocket then post it.
Because on your screenshoot there is no proof about Russian rocket strike but there is, definetly, proof about some rocket strike.

I might be trolling but youre clearly dumber.
My screen 10 AM - russian military news reports on successful hit on UA army in Kramatorsk.
Your screen 6 PM - russian military news blames UA army on Kramatorsk attack.
???

[enterisys]

(Besides, Russian forces doesn't use TOchka-U)

That's a good one.

New batch of Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles was brought to Belarus.

Today at 14:12 (Minsk time), Russian An-124 Ruslan heavy cargo aircraft landed at the airfield in Machulishchy (Minsk region).
https://twitter.com/MotolkoHelp/status/ ... 7562424321

Yeah dude doesnt know how to use google.

Oh look what I found. 20 “Ukrainian” tochka U in Belarus marked by V
https://twitter.com/Ruskiship_nahui/sta ... 8912593922

[Overlord218]

(Besides, Russian forces doesn't use TOchka-U)

That's a good one.

New batch of Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles was brought to Belarus.

Today at 14:12 (Minsk time), Russian An-124 Ruslan heavy cargo aircraft landed at the airfield in Machulishchy (Minsk region).
https://twitter.com/MotolkoHelp/status/ ... 7562424321

Yeah dude doesnt know how to use google.

Oh look what I found. 20 “Ukrainian” tochka U in Belarus marked by V
https://twitter.com/Ruskiship_nahui/sta ... 8912593922

>New batch of Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles was brought to Belarus.
>Some random twitter account claimed this
Dude, really. Try better. This isn't official account which associated with Belarussia. And, Belarussia != Russia study geography please


>Oh look what I found. 20 “Ukrainian” tochka U in Belarus marked by V
https://ura.news/news/1052544391
I hope you can read Russian.

[enterisys]

(Besides, Russian forces doesn't use TOchka-U)

That's a good one.

New batch of Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles was brought to Belarus.

Today at 14:12 (Minsk time), Russian An-124 Ruslan heavy cargo aircraft landed at the airfield in Machulishchy (Minsk region).
https://twitter.com/MotolkoHelp/status/ ... 7562424321

Yeah dude doesnt know how to use google.

Oh look what I found. 20 “Ukrainian” tochka U in Belarus marked by V
https://twitter.com/Ruskiship_nahui/sta ... 8912593922

>New batch of Tochka-U tactical ballistic missiles was brought to Belarus.
>Some random twitter account claimed this
Dude, really. Try better. This isn't official account which associated with Belarussia. And, Belarussia != Russia study geography please


>Oh look what I found. 20 “Ukrainian” tochka U in Belarus marked by V
https://ura.news/news/1052544391
I hope you can read Russian.

Sadly I can, and you?
Or you imply those are Belarus tochka-u ?

[Overlord218]

At 10AM russian military claimed it was their tochka-u.

What made them change their mind later?

Proofs? Because your screenshoot have none.
(It's just says that Kramatorsk was under fire and in next paragraph it tells that MAYBE there was Ukrainian train)

And another one. ANNA news talks about Syria (There is no video about Ukrain on their YT channel)

My proof is russian military screenshot claiming they bombed Kramatorsk.
Your proof - just a russian opinion that this was Ukrainian rocket.
What made them change their mind later?

So you either:
1) Don't understand Russian Language and use some random post to "Declare" something
2) You not very smart and can't read properly (Don't blame yourself, bad school maybe)
3) You trolling.
If you have screenshoot where russian military claimed that it was their rocket then post it.
Because on your screenshoot there is no proof about Russian rocket strike but there is, definetly, proof about some rocket strike.

I might be trolling but youre clearly dumber.
My screen 10 AM - russian military news reports on successful hit on UA army in Kramatorsk.
Your screen 6 PM - russian military news blames UA army on Kramatorsk attack.
???

>My screen 10 AM - russian military news reports on successful hit on UA army in Kramatorsk.
Can you, please, mark where on your screenshoot this stated? I read it 4 times and can't see this claim.

[enterisys]

Proofs? Because your screenshoot have none.
(It's just says that Kramatorsk was under fire and in next paragraph it tells that MAYBE there was Ukrainian train)

And another one. ANNA news talks about Syria (There is no video about Ukrain on their YT channel)

My proof is russian military screenshot claiming they bombed Kramatorsk.
Your proof - just a russian opinion that this was Ukrainian rocket.
What made them change their mind later?

So you either:
1) Don't understand Russian Language and use some random post to "Declare" something
2) You not very smart and can't read properly (Don't blame yourself, bad school maybe)
3) You trolling.
If you have screenshoot where russian military claimed that it was their rocket then post it.
Because on your screenshoot there is no proof about Russian rocket strike but there is, definetly, proof about some rocket strike.

I might be trolling but youre clearly dumber.
My screen 10 AM - russian military news reports on successful hit on UA army in Kramatorsk.
Your screen 6 PM - russian military news blames UA army on Kramatorsk attack.
???

>My screen 10 AM - russian military news reports on successful hit on UA army in Kramatorsk.
Can you, please, mark where on your screenshoot this stated? I read it 4 times and can't see this claim.

Translation: 10:08 - 10 AM | anna news - anna news is a russian pro-kremlin news agency. The agency's name anna used to stand for "abkhazian network news agency"; after the head office moved to moscow | ydar - hit | BCY - UA Army | Kpamatopck - Kramatorsk
???

[FuryoftheStars]

And, Belarussia != Russia study geography please

Why do you bother with pointing this out? Deflection tactic? They came in on Russian cargo planes. So even if these were being given to Belarus, they came from Russia meaning Russia does indeed have these (which is counter to the original claim).

Nice typo on Belarus, btw…

[Overlord218]

My proof is russian military screenshot claiming they bombed Kramatorsk.
Your proof - just a russian opinion that this was Ukrainian rocket.
What made them change their mind later?

So you either:
1) Don't understand Russian Language and use some random post to "Declare" something
2) You not very smart and can't read properly (Don't blame yourself, bad school maybe)
3) You trolling.
If you have screenshoot where russian military claimed that it was their rocket then post it.
Because on your screenshoot there is no proof about Russian rocket strike but there is, definetly, proof about some rocket strike.

I might be trolling but youre clearly dumber.
My screen 10 AM - russian military news reports on successful hit on UA army in Kramatorsk.
Your screen 6 PM - russian military news blames UA army on Kramatorsk attack.
???

>My screen 10 AM - russian military news reports on successful hit on UA army in Kramatorsk.
Can you, please, mark where on your screenshoot this stated? I read it 4 times and can't see this claim.

Translation: 10:08 - 10 AM | anna news - anna news is a russian pro-kremlin news agency. The agency's name anna used to stand for "abkhazian network news agency"; after the head office moved to moscow | ydar - hit | BCY - UA Army | Kpamatopck - Kramatorsk
???

[Non English part removed by Koub] Please at least write in English, this is an English forum.