We support Ukraine

[enterisys]

Nazism is the idea of ​​the superiority of ONE nationality over ANOTHER .
Nazism does not need an enemy, it attracts by the fact that you are BETTER than all others.
A Jew is better than a German or a German is better than a Jew.
Or is a Ukrainian better than a Russian. There is no difference

Did you just describe russian military media? russians are better than Ukrainians lets nuke them.

[enterisys]

Poverty, lust for power over others, the simple idea that you are the chosen one.

So its the Ukrainians that want power over russia and not vice-versa?
https://borgenproject.org/facts-about-p ... in-russia/

[mmmPI]

Funny thing. I just posted a photo and comment of a third-party person from the telegram. Almost without text. And after that you wrote your thoughts that you had after seeing these photos. It is good.

Nothing funny about you posting nazi stuff in here associating it with ukraine while the thread is in support of humanitarian NGO

I do not interfere with all the people of Ukraine. In my opinion, there is Nazism in Ukraine, which is SUPPORTED at the state level. And this is the MAIN difference from all other countries where it exists.

your opinion doesn't make it true, facts would help, facts from a third party that is not the only pint of view allowed in russia

I won't comment. I have already repeated 10 times that I will not support no one goverment in this conflict. Try to read and respect.

This is a lie your first comment on the forum was callin the Ukrainian people nazi, it was on this topic, all your comment are on this topic and all your comment are pushing the same narrative that is well explained and debunk in this article :
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/the ... 1.10660365


Remember you said this about it :

good link. Truth, a little untruth, somewhere the truth is inflated to big.

just FYI

Since those fateful days of the Maidan revolution in February 2014, when Putin’s satrap Victor Yanukovich was ousted from power, the Kremlin has depicted Ukraine as a dangerous, radical place run by fascists and neo-Nazis. Over the last eight years the term "neo-Nazis" has been replaced by plain "Nazis," and that’s the toxic term that Russian military correspondents, talk show hosts, analysts and politicians now use in regards to Ukraine.

This last point is especially significant in creating today’s mirror-narrative of "us [Russia] versus the Nazis [Ukraine]." The memory of the Great Patriotic War, which ‘begins’ in the Russian telling from Hitler’s invasion of the USSR in June 1941, is still very much alive in Russian-speaking communities around the world.

However, when these facts are inflated beyond any proportion and interpreted as equal to the Nazi threat to humanity in 1939, Israel should be alarmed. When Russia raises a false "denazification" flag to justify invading a democracy with a thriving Jewish community, a sizable population of Israeli citizens, a Jewish president, Jewish MPs and legislation that criminalizes antisemitism, Israel should stand up and resist.

Putin’s "de-nazification" drive is both false and dangerous. It equates the Ukrainian government led by Volodymyr Zelenskyy to the Third Reich, and the Holocaust to the "genocide" of Russians in Donbas – both unfounded, spurious and revisionist allegations.

And most importantly, when Moscow uses this same rhetoric to bomb Ukrainian cities and kill Ukrainian citizens, Israel, the "Never Again nation," should always be the first to stand up against it, to decline handouts from the oligarchs in Putin’s clique, and to reject rhetoric that leverages Jewish suffering to whitewash atrocities and aggression.

Just in case anyone wants to know : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Ukra ... l_election
There are the election result in last presidential election in Ukraine, available for everyone that wants to verify the allegations. One can see the % of result for the different political party to see if really the extremist are representative of the people or if it's just like 2%

None of my posts are in other places on the forum except for this topic.

Which prompted you to just register and post nazi picture to see what people think about it ?

[enterisys]

https://www.facebook.com/mhpUKR/posts/2952567558368231

Biggest refrigerator warehouse in Ukraine bombed by putin to denazify the frozen chickens contained there.

[FuryoftheStars]

(As I think I didn’t make it clear in my post, I do not think Russia’s aggression and hostilities are solely to blame. It’s a major contributing factor.)

Poverty, lust for power over others, the simple idea that you are the chosen one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Ukraine

None of which is unique to Ukraine to explain why that country has such a “higher rate of Nazism” to warrant action being taken. And as shown here, Ukraine is by far not the worst on poverty. (In fact, it seems like in recent years it’s had some of the lowest levels of poverty):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... in_poverty

[Djmixxx]

I don’t specifically write who shot whom. And then again accused of all mortal sins.

As a result of the Tochka-U strike in the center of Donetsk, 20 people were killed (most likely more), including children. Also a large number of wounded. The missile went to the center of Donetsk, the air defense most likely worked late and the missile was actually shot down over the center of the city. As a result, cluster munitions ( you can see a lot of small holes on photo) mowed down people on the streets. In the event of a rocket falling in the city center, there would be even more victims.
Obviously, there were no serious military targets here, just a terrorist act to kill civilians with a cluster munition.

This is one calm photo, the rest are 18+
I will no longer post photos on this post, you can find them on the front pages of the media in your country.

[Djmixxx]

None of which is unique to Ukraine to explain why that country has such a “higher rate of Nazism” to warrant action being taken.

I do not interfere with all the people of Ukraine. In my opinion, there is Nazism in Ukraine, which is SUPPORTED at the state level. And this is the MAIN difference from all other countries where it exists.

[Djmixxx]

your opinion doesn't make it true, facts would help, facts from a third party that is not the only pint of view allowed in russia

Is this also Russian propaganda?
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/u ... cna1290946

[Djmixxx]

This is a lie your first comment on the forum was callin the Ukrainian people nazi, it was on this topic, all your comment are on this topic and all your comment are pushing the same narrative that is well explained and debunk in this article :
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/the ... 1.10660365

And again, your favorite way to mix everything. (How Putin does with the Nazis in Ukraine)
The Russian language != Russian people != Putin.
AND
Ukraine != Ukrainian civilians != Zelinsky != Ukrainian Nazis.

[Djmixxx]

Enough answers to make it clear that you either do not read the posts or are you consciously changing the meaning of my words?

[mmmPI]

Enough answers to make it clear that you either do not read the posts or are you consciously changing the meaning of my words?

This time you outdid yourself with not just 2 or 3 post but 5 ! the quantity doesn't matter it needs to make sense.

I'm still unsure why you think it's fit to post pictures of nazi flag in the snow you found on telegram, is that something you do on a regular schedule ? do you this in other forum too ? did you registered just to do this ?

It seems to me that it's purposefully giving a fake and bad representation of Ukraine like the russian authorized media do.

Why makes you think a place in support of an NGO is a place to try and convince people that war could have legitimate reason ?

[enterisys]

This time you outdid yourself with not just 2 or 3 post but 5 ! the quantity doesn't matter it needs to make sense.

I'm still unsure why you think it's fit to post pictures of nazi flag in the snow you found on telegram, is that something you do on a regular schedule ? do you this in other forum too ? did you registered just to do this ?

It seems to me that it's purposefully giving a fake and bad representation of Ukraine like the russian authorized media do.

Why makes you think a place in support of an NGO is a place to try and convince people that war could have legitimate reason ?

Its his simple reposts from russian military telegram. Not suspicious at all.

[Djmixxx]

I'll just wait for world news about the killing of civilians in Donetsk. We have an objective media and they will not hush up such a crime against peaceful Ukrainians.

I'm still interested in the development of the topic that yesterday people through telegrams and various
groups were called to gather at the building where rockets were flying today. I will follow this news.

[tuhe]

Time to re-visit the bombed hospital as it is an interesting view of how propaganda works and by extension how it is disseminated on this forum.
After the pictures emerge of bloodied women, Russia can claim in minutes and without evidence that the hospital was used for military purposes and that the people being dragged from the ruins are actors, supposedly on a 24/7 standby with pillows on their stomachs and makeup ready in case fortune falls from the skies.

People like Djmixxx can repeat it under a pretense of "just asking questions" and "lets consider the alternative views", as happened on this forum.

It takes a few days for the eye-witness accounts to emerge. In this case:

A pregnant woman and her baby have died after Russia bombed the maternity hospital where she was meant to give birth, The Associated Press has learned. Images of the woman being rushed to an ambulance on a stretcher had circled the world, epitomizing the horror of an attack on humanity’s most innocent.

In video and photos shot Wednesday by AP journalists after the attack on the hospital, the woman was seen stroking her bloodied lower abdomen as rescuers rushed her through the rubble in the besieged city of Mariupol, her blanched face mirroring her shock at what had just happened. It was among the most brutal moments so far in Russia’s now 19-day-old war on Ukraine.

The woman was rushed to another hospital, yet closer to the frontline, where doctors labored to keep her alive. Realizing she was losing her baby, medics said, she cried out to them, “Kill me now!”

Surgeon Timur Marin found the woman’s pelvis crushed and hip detached. Medics delivered the baby via cesarean section, but it showed “no signs of life,” the surgeon said.

So what now? There are two options. Under normal circumstances this would cause reflection: Why did I end up speculating this woman was not real? Can Russian media be trusted if they lie again and again? Why did they bomb the hospital? Why do they bomb so *many* hospitals (>100 and counting). Is this really consistent with liberating a country from a few nazis who happen to run the government?

But other options are available, of course.

One is to double down or prepare a version of reality consistent with this view. Perhaps militants were in just one wing of the hospital? Perhaps AP is a paid actor? The original lies can be spun to accommodate the new facts. It was brought up initially it was strange there were high-quality videos just after the attack (almost like it was staged, as the speculation went). This is of course not so strange when there were journalists with high-quality cameras. But perhaps one can claim it is strange there were Journalists at a hospital in the first place?

Another option is to just ignore it happened. Crisis spun, crisis averted. This week it will be even worse, with civilians dying by the thousands. Perhaps it can be claimed that the Ukrainians themselves are blowing up their food storage, buildings, etc. Everything to get to the next week.

Here is the original speculation:

Hm , and how do Russians make excuses

https://generico.ru/2022/03/10/polyansk ... -mariupol/

The fact that in this hospital there are neither staff nor patients was said on March 8 by Russia's official representative to the UN Vasily Nebenzya.
(Ukraine-Russian war: Russian shelling 'destroy' Ukraine maternity hospital on 9 March https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/world-60669751)

- Local residents report that, having driven out the entire staff of the maternity hospital No. 1 in Mariupol, the Armed Forces of Ukraine equipped a firing position in it, - he said during the meeting.

The same was confirmed in an interview with Lente.ru, the son of one of the employees of the maternity hospital. According to him, “in the last days of February, people in uniform came to the hospital. The military dispersed the staff, and fire points were set up in the building.”

Moreover, war correspondents report: “Since the start of the military operation, this Mariupol maternity hospital has been occupied by 2 companies of the 36th Marine Brigade, and all patients and staff have been evicted to other facilities, and some even to their homes.”

Now, the inconsistencies that are visible to the naked eye from the videos that appear on the network:

1. Imagine how many corpses and victims there would be if an air bomb flew into the courtyard of the existing hospital. And there is no doubt that the Ukrainian side would not use to show them all. At least they bandage them or take them to the ambulance. But where are they?

2. The explosion was in the courtyard, but inside there are no traces of blood even from glass victims (there is only a bucket of red paint).

3. It is stated that there are dozens of dead and injured in the maternity hospital. But only one ambulance comes to them (came into the frame).

The Ministry of Defense spoke about the same on March 5: “Azov and Aidar national battalion militants are firing at the DPR troops that entered Mariupol from positions in schools, hospitals, maternity hospitals and kindergartens.”

Photo of solders withou Z or any other letter attached to the last application.

[Djmixxx]

I wrote above. We will now compare the reaction of the world press to two identical events. The shelling of civilians by the military.

If the reaction is different, then there is an information war to inflate the necessary information. If the reaction is the same, then the Russians fired at the hospital with civilians.

[mmmPI]

I am saying that both goverment propaganda , one from Russia , one from West. Do not expect from both true story about situation.

So you say the earth is flat, i think it's round. Well we can't tell it's impossible.

That's your classic stupid argument

"one from the West" the famous

[enterisys]

I'll just wait for world news about the killing of civilians in Donetsk. We have an objective media and they will not hush up such a crime against peaceful Ukrainians.

I'm still interested in the development of the topic that yesterday people through telegrams and various
groups were called to gather at the building where rockets were flying today. I will follow this news.

I am sorry to disappoint you but world news rn is about 2k+ dead in Mariupol. Clearly russians bombing Donetsk is a serious issue but the real problem is in Mariupol.

[tuhe]

I wrote above. We will now compare the reaction of the world press to two identical events. The shelling of civilians by the military.

If the reaction is different, then there is an information war to inflate the necessary information. If the reaction is the same, then the Russians fired at the hospital with civilians.

Ah, so your response is not to acknowledge that Russia was wrong about whether the hospital contained civilians, and therefore that you were wrong by speculating on the matter and acknowledge that, indeed, Russia bombed a maternity ward and tried to spin it?

Instead, you respond with a question of sorts based on a false premise: The attacks are similar, let us discuss the reaction of the press!

Why should we talk about the press? Why is the reaction of the press the important aspect of a conflict that claims thousands of civilian lives?

This is another part of propaganda: Draw false comparisons, turn the argument into one about false comparisons and other people's opinions, make it abstract. If the premises are wrong so much the better, then it can become an open-ended argument about premises, who gets to discuss what is right, and finally allow a retreat into "but is there an objective truth"?

I don't think you are a paid troll, but I think you have misled yourself very carefully. Does it still seem reasonable to you that you are, at the same time, claiming that the US and China IS in a war, and that Ukraine and Russia is NOT in a war?
Because to be honest, this is the sort of gross inconsistencies with common sense that would cause me to re-evaluate what sort of crap I have been stuffing my head with.

As to your question:
It is based on the false premise that the two attacks are similar. They are not. In the case of Donetsk, what happened according to authorities in Donetsk was the Ukrainian military (perhaps!) attacked a military target. Their missile was shot down and caused 16 deaths. Tragic as that is, it is different from a situation where the Ukrainian military attacked a Russian hospital, which is a war crime.

Also, note the western media is not claiming the event did not happen and report what the authorities in Donetsk are saying. They don't claim the people in the queue were paid actors. Can you acknowledge that Russia is bombing hospitals?

(updated).

[FuryoftheStars]

None of which is unique to Ukraine to explain why that country has such a “higher rate of Nazism” to warrant action being taken.

I do not interfere with all the people of Ukraine. In my opinion, there is Nazism in Ukraine, which is SUPPORTED at the state level. And this is the MAIN difference from all other countries where it exists.

3) Every country has Nazis. The US has Nazis. Even Russia has Nazis. This doesn’t make the country Nazi.

But only in one country this Nazi support government.

Well, that’s not exactly true. The Nazis loved it when Trump was in power in the US. And really, from what I can see, this looks like a potential “enemy of my enemy” situation where Russia made itself the bigger enemy.

If you think about, the Russian government is creating the Nazi issue themselves.

I mean, people aren’t born Nazis. It starts with them feeling pressured and threatened from elsewhere, and the Nazi’s give them a place to vent and feel understood. Eventually, they begin to believe in the Nazi’s because they feel like they’re the only ones who truly understand and will do anything.

If the Russian government wasn’t a constant, looming threat, I feel like the Nazi movements wouldn’t have as many disgruntled and hurting people to pull from.

All that said, I also still believe that the “Nazi threat” in Ukraine is not as great as Russia is trying to make it seem. And that news article you posted actually supports that.

That said...

your opinion doesn't make it true, facts would help, facts from a third party that is not the only pint of view allowed in russia

Is this also Russian propaganda?
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/u ... cna1290946

A couple things to note:

1. In the article, it lists out the different presences of Nazis in the country, but when it comes to the government, it says:

   Nowadays, Ukraine counts between 56,000 to 140,000 Jews, who enjoy freedoms and protections never imagined by their grandparents. That includes an updated law passed last month criminalizing antisemitic acts.

   Which means to me that the government actually does not support the hatred of the Nazis.
2. Many of the celebrated figures in Ukraine's past that were Nazi supporters, were also ones that fought for Ukrainian independence. I can easily see where some people may still want to celebrate them despite the Nazism.
3. Some of the people that have managed to get elected to Parliament are specifically against the current President of Ukraine.
4. (Edit: Oh, and so this article is wholly truthful while others they write aren't? Or only the parts of this article that you agree with are truthful?)

And I'll reiterate...

And really, from what I can see, this looks like a potential “enemy of my enemy” situation where Russia made itself the bigger enemy.

If the Russian government wasn’t a constant, looming threat, I feel like the Nazi movements wouldn’t have as many disgruntled and hurting people to pull from.

That subject covered...

I wrote above. We will now compare the reaction of the world press to two identical events. The shelling of civilians by the military.

If the reaction is different, then there is an information war to inflate the necessary information. If the reaction is the same, then the Russians fired at the hospital with civilians.

So wait, you're seriously going to try and compare the purposeful bombing of a hospital by Russian troops to an Ukrainian missile that was intercepted and shot-down, whose subsequent debris hit and killed unintended targets?

Wow.

[FuryoftheStars]

I wrote above. We will now compare the reaction of the world press to two identical events. The shelling of civilians by the military.

If the reaction is different, then there is an information war to inflate the necessary information. If the reaction is the same, then the Russians fired at the hospital with civilians.

Ah, so your response is not to acknowledge that Russia was wrong about whether the hospital contained civilians, and therefore that you were wrong by speculating on the matter and acknowledge that, indeed, Russia bombed a maternity ward and tried to spin it?

Instead, you respond with a question of sorts based on a false premise: The attacks are similar, let us discuss the reaction of the press!

Why should we talk about the press? Why is the reaction of the press the important aspect of a conflict that claims thousands of civilian lives?

This is another part of propaganda: Draw false comparisons, turn the argument into one about false comparisons and other people's opinions, make it abstract. If the premises are wrong so much the better, then it can become an open-ended argument about premises, who gets to discuss what is right, and finally allow a retreat into "but is there an objective truth"?

From my PoV, what I'm seeing from them is:

• An effort to seem like they do not agree with or support Russia's actions (however, there are often things that they say that makes it seem like this may not actually be the case). My speculation is that they're merely claiming not be be aligned with Russia's goals so that the rest of what they have to say won't be dismissed outright (especially by those that probably read here but don't post). After all, there is probably a large portion of people that have already formed an opinion about Russia and it's easier to be heard by the ones against Russia if you say you're not for Russia, either.
• Ultimately, they don't need to get people to agree with Russia in order to affect things. They just need to get people to question and pull their support from Ukraine. Without any help, Ukraine will fold to Russia. (They may still even with help, but they'll put up a heck of a stronger and longer fight.) In combination with their stance I mentioned above, they stand a better chance of at least being listened to and maybe even having their "critical of Ukraine" words being taken seriously like this.