posila wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:46 am
It is unfortunate reality of early access games - you might see the game as something else than what developers see it as and end up being disappointed when the development progresses and the game gets closer to vision of developers rather than what you have thought it is going to be. So I feel like we have "tricked" you into buying wrong game. I am sorry for that.
Bearing that in mind:
Jeeto wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:58 pm
Just don't get rid of hand crafting or non-botting, if I ever get bored with running around and carrying things or having everything go on belts, I'll give bots a try (or if my base gets too large to manage myself) but I think bots are far from what I thought the game would be when I purchased it.
It seems you could read too much into that and trick yourselves, or scare us into thinking you've tricked yourselves, into thinking the game is more about automation than it should be. Maybe you're already too tricked: Factorio is a game about surviving on a hostile planet, but unlike any other game with that theme, you have to
design a factory to do it. (Caught this on the copyedit pass: In Outpost 2: Divided Destiny, you build factories as individual entities; design is very much on the RTS level.) You see, it's not about simply building factories.
Other games do that and to deprive Factorio of its core mission would remove its unique flavor and render it generic. (E.g. Yorg.io is about building tower defended factories just for the sake of building tower defended factories, and I'm the only one who has ever challenged that, and in a very minor way
.) Can't a non-breaking axe just be one reasonable step on that path? I mean, you just need to walk back the bane of Zelda:BotW, not take the axe out completely, right?
By the way, one step would be to simply kit the player with an axe from the start, and I'm actually rather surprised that had never been done.
Oktokolo wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:25 am
I am pretty sure, that he not only could reimplement the axe, but will also realize, that the axes indeed do not improve gameplay at all.
That's just your opinion man. I'm not just trying to be the Dude, but you really are speaking as if you're the only
guy who could be correct and that if the devs do what you like, everyone else can be damned. I'm pretty sure I've brought something like this up before in the thread, was it with you? (flip flip
) Nope, not even the same thread. The point still stands: Just because you
don't like something doesn't mean everyone else should be deprived of it. (flip also has the argument I made with posila in this thread: I'm not speaking from "feels", people just aren't reading the logic.)
Let's meet half way, shall we?
1. Reimplement the axe in the engine, along with a moddable wear rate that can be set to zero.
2. Write in the ability for a technology research complete event to spawn inventory items.
3. Write in some easy inventory management setting that automatically equips the best hand tools and armor in the player's inventory; make it easy to turn off just in case it causes issues in the power armor phase (i.e. someone's combat armor suit is a Mk. 2 PA, while his personal roboport kit is in a Mk. 1 PA and he needs to have the latter stay in the armor slot while keeping the former in inventory.)
4. Set the hand axe wear rate to zero in the base mod.
5. Put an iron axe in the start kit for the player, with the exception of the First Steps-01 mission unless you want to-
6. Remove the First Steps-01 mission, which is mostly about building the hand axe and hand mining enough to build a burner drill. The latter half can be blended into the First Steps-02 - destroy the burner drills (and I mean literally so that there is wreckage on the iron patch identified by character or tab balloon dialogue) and instruct the player to hand mine enough iron to build one. Congratulate him on his ingenuity should he go grab one from the coal patch and put it on the iron patch instead. This should be put between the inspection of the chest with the pistol in it, and the burner inserter rotation. (Copyedit pass: The above is from memory, Ima go play First Steps-01 and -02 to verify, brb. Good thing I did: the misrotated inserter pulled the plates from the furnace and put them on the belt leading to it
We might have to add it after the rotation lesson instead.)
7. Have the Steel Processing technology automatically spawn a steel axe by default. (Modders can turn this off if desired.) Combined with the easy inventory management and zero wear rate, the only effect that's different from the engine change is the appearance of the old iron axe in the inventory after researching Steel Processing.
8. At some point in the First Steps-03 mission, instruct the player to build a steel axe. Character dialogue (the chat line) explains why it automatically appears in the tool slot and where the old iron axe went. Tab balloon dialogue can explain how easy inventory management can turned off. The same tab balloon dialogue can be programmed to appear on the event of Power Armor research complete because that's far enough down the road that new players might have forgotten about it, and the point at which they might wish to turn it off.
Option 1. Easy inventory management for tools but not armor - possibly separate options for both.
Option 2. In lieu of enabling the steel axe for First Steps-03, automatically have the Steel Processing research complete event delete iron axes from the inventory. This would make the vanilla game's behaviour identical to the current 0.17 baseline.
Finally, if anyone thinks I've been too emotional, please go back and actually read
this post. (Copyedit pass: emphasis added.)
Edit: There is also a discussion
of the pickaxe on the General Discussion forum.
Rythe wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:49 am
Now gather around, because this explanation starts in the way back[,] when we thought of our industrious little avatars as crash survivors trying to overcome a hostile, alien world, and maybe, one day, even escape it. This was when Factorio was a different game.
He might be a bit more hyperbolic (and I might be a bit more hypergolic), but our arguments ascend from the same basic theme.