[TOGos] [for 0.16] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

This subforum contains all the issues which we already resolved.
Semaphor
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 2:27 pm
Contact:

[TOGos] [for 0.16] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by Semaphor » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:28 pm

I've generated a world with only Iron, copper, and coal. No Oil, Uranium and stone.

Settings: Everything to "Very Low"; All size to "Very Small"; Iron/Copper "Very good", Stone/Coal/Uranium at "Regular", and Oil at "Very Poor".

I ran a few regeneration of these settings and it's consistent.

No mods were used.

Map string:

Code: Select all

>>>AAAPABUAAAABAQcAAAAEAAAAY29hbAEBAwoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AQEFCQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAEBAQoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAQEDCAAAAGl
yb24tb3JlAQEFBQAAAHN0b25lAQEDCwAAAHVyYW5pdW0tb3JlAQEDyw
nr0YCEHgCAhB4AAwABAQF7FK5H4XqUPwEAAAAAAAAuQAEAAAAAAADwP
wEAAAAAAFi7QAEAAAAAAOCFQAEAAAAAAFirQAEAAAAAAIjDQAEAAAAA
AECfQAEAAAAAAEB/QAEAAAAAAECPQAEzMzMzMzPzPwEzMzMzMzPzPwF
7FK5H4Xp0PwEAAQAAAAAAAAhAAQAAAAAAAAhAAXsUrkfheoQ/AQABAQ
GN7bWg98bQPgH8qfHSTWJgPwFpHVVNEHXvPgEBAQcAAAABAgAAAAECA
AAAAZqZmZmZmbk/AQAAAAAAAABAAQAAAAAAAOA/AZqZmZmZmdk/Ac3M
zMzMzOw/AQUAAAABFAAAAAFAOAAAAcBLAwABEA4AAAGgjAAAASAcAAA
BAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAFEABZmZmZmZm9j8BMzMzMzMz4z8BMzMzMz
Mz0z8BAAAAAAAACEABAAAAAAAAJEABPAAAAAEeAAAAAcgAAAABBQAAA
AEAAAAAAAAAQAEBAQAAAAAAAFlAAQUAAAABGQAAAAEAAAAAAAAkQAEy
AAAAAQAAAAAAAD5AAWQAAAABmpmZmZmZyT8BMzMzMzMzwz8BMzMzMzM
z0z8BMzMzMzMz0z8BAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAANEABAAAAAAAAPkABAA
AAAAAAFEABAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAACEABCgAAAAFkA
AAAAWQAAAAB6AMAAAEAAAAAAADgPwHQBwAAAQAAAAAAQH9AAwAAAAAA
AAAAAAAA8D8OyRVa<<<
Attachments
test.zip
(11.21 MiB) Downloaded 41 times
Untitled.png
Untitled.png (477.18 KiB) Viewed 3566 times

User avatar
TruePikachu
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 865
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:39 pm
Contact:

Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found

Post by TruePikachu » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:02 am

Technically not a bug.

User avatar
Ranakastrasz
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1990
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:05 am
Contact:

Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found

Post by Ranakastrasz » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:18 am

You kinda intentionally did this. Uranium and stone are already rather smaller and more sparse than the rest, and you just set them to absolute minimum. Of course you will have trouble finding any.
My Mods:
Modular Armor Revamp - V16
Large Chests - V16
Agent Orange - V16
Flare - V16
Easy Refineries - V16

User avatar
DaveMcW
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2719
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 11:06 am
Contact:

Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found

Post by DaveMcW » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:53 am

Semaphor wrote:I've generated a world with only Iron, copper, and coal. No Oil, Uranium and stone.
Confirmed.

Code: Select all

/c game.player.force.chart(game.player.surface, {{x = -10000, y = -10000}, {x = 10000, y = 10000}})
(Wait a few hours for chart to finish)

Code: Select all

/c for _,resource in pairs{"iron-ore", "copper-ore", "coal", "crude-oil", "uranium-ore", "stone"} do game.print(resource.." "..game.player.surface.count_entities_filtered{name=resource}) end
iron-ore 11061
copper-ore 9623
coal 8860
crude-oil 4
uranium-ore 0
stone 0

"Very low Very small" resources should be hard to find, but it is a bug when they are impossible to find.

Semaphor
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 2:27 pm
Contact:

Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found

Post by Semaphor » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:06 am

DaveMcW wrote: "Very low Very small" resources should be hard to find, but it is a bug when they are impossible to find.
Indeed. Something changed in the last minor revision. I've always played my games with those ultra low settings and there have always been oil and uranium, even if they were dozens of chunks away.

User avatar
TruePikachu
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 865
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:39 pm
Contact:

Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found

Post by TruePikachu » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:31 am

Can you test this bug (with the console commands as well) in such a prior version, for comparison purposes?

Loewchen
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 5044
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:53 pm
Contact:

Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found

Post by Loewchen » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:08 am

Frequency and size are not independent parameters, setting a resource that spawns small deposits in general to very small size makes it very likely to not spawn in an instance at all, this can result in a map not spawning that resource in realisticly reachable distance.

Rseding91
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 9052
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:23 am
Contact:

Re: [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by Rseding91 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:29 am

Map gen hasn't changed for quite some time (mid 0.13).

We've tweaked the resources to spawn how we want on "normal". Changing them to the very-low options means there's a good chance they can never spawn. That's not a bug.
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on Discord.

User avatar
DaveMcW
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2719
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 11:06 am
Contact:

Re: [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by DaveMcW » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:34 am

You should remove the "very low" option then, since it does the same as "none".

User avatar
Klonan
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 3599
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:09 pm
Contact:

Re: [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by Klonan » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:36 am

DaveMcW wrote:You should remove the "very low" option then, since it does the same as "none".
We have some rework on the terrain in progress, I will move this to waiting and make sure it gets looked at for the new system

Rseding91
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 9052
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:23 am
Contact:

Re: [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by Rseding91 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:42 am

DaveMcW wrote:You should remove the "very low" option then, since it does the same as "none".
It depends entirely on how you base the resource default values. If you take copper ore it just makes it rare. If you take oil - something that's already rare - it makes it incredibly rare.
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on Discord.

User avatar
Ranakastrasz
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1990
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:05 am
Contact:

Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by Ranakastrasz » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:04 pm

Image

The line's height is the size, and comparing the first to the third shows a patch that shows up. If you raise the line enough, smaller patches might never show up because they are all below the threshhold. If this is the case, then this is in fact something of a bug.
My Mods:
Modular Armor Revamp - V16
Large Chests - V16
Agent Orange - V16
Flare - V16
Easy Refineries - V16

Semaphor
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 2:27 pm
Contact:

Re: [0.15.21] oil, stone, uranium nowhere to be found

Post by Semaphor » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:04 pm

TruePikachu wrote:Can you test this bug (with the console commands as well) in such a prior version, for comparison purposes?
Loaded up 0.14.23. Looks like the same issue exists. I even teleported out to -12000,-12000 to see if I can get larger resource blobs. Same issue, no oil or stone.

I used RSO mod for ages, which is probably why I never noticed this in the first place.

Rseding91
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 9052
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:23 am
Contact:

Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by Rseding91 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:53 am

Ranakastrasz wrote:Image

The line's height is the size, and comparing the first to the third shows a patch that shows up. If you raise the line enough, smaller patches might never show up because they are all below the threshhold. If this is the case, then this is in fact something of a bug.
No, that's how noise based generation works. When you tell it to use a range that's outside what it can actually generate them it does so and you don't get anything generated. None of that is a bug.

That's like saying "when I don't give the car enough gas it won't go up the hill".
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on Discord.

User avatar
Ranakastrasz
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1990
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:05 am
Contact:

Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by Ranakastrasz » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:53 pm

So is that what is happening, or is something else causing this issue? I can't tell if you are saying my guess is wrong, or if you are saying it is not a bug.

A depressing number of bugs have been called not-a-bug around here.
My Mods:
Modular Armor Revamp - V16
Large Chests - V16
Agent Orange - V16
Flare - V16
Easy Refineries - V16

User avatar
TruePikachu
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 865
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:39 pm
Contact:

Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by TruePikachu » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:28 pm

Strictly speaking, going by the discussion about reactor heat pipes, "Not a Bug" means that the implementation is working as designed; it does not necessairily mean that the implementation is the correct one, just that the one used is working correctly.

AeonBear
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:41 am
Contact:

Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by AeonBear » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:15 am

Rseding91 wrote: No, that's how noise based generation works. When you tell it to use a range that's outside what it can actually generate them it does so and you don't get anything generated. None of that is a bug.

That's like saying "when I don't give the car enough gas it won't go up the hill".
I would say it's not a bug, but certainly misleading. If you set settings to be low then a minimum quota should be ensured. Technically 0 is a low number but if None and Low are both options I would expect low to always be above 0, even at the expense of correctness and randomness.

User avatar
Ranakastrasz
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1990
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:05 am
Contact:

Re: [TOGos] [for 0.16] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by Ranakastrasz » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:09 pm

I still would like to know if this situation is a result of the threshhold being above the peak, so nothing generates.


I mean, yea, the OP intentionally tried to set the amount that spawn as extremely low, but I still think something should visibly spawn.


Ofc oil, stone, and uranium are already the smallest, so I have to wonder if it is just that you are in a void between spawned patches (luck) or if none spawn (threshhold is too high, covering all peaks)
My Mods:
Modular Armor Revamp - V16
Large Chests - V16
Agent Orange - V16
Flare - V16
Easy Refineries - V16

Frightning
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 776
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:27 pm
Contact:

Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by Frightning » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:53 pm

Ranakastrasz wrote:So is that what is happening, or is something else causing this issue? I can't tell if you are saying my guess is wrong, or if you are saying it is not a bug.

A depressing number of bugs have been called not-a-bug around here.
Well, technically they are right that it's not a bug in that 'it is working as designed/intended'. But that does NOT mean it is working as it ought to work. I certainly think it even on very low frequency+size you should still be able to find all resources outside of your start....if you look far and wide enough.

Rseding91
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 9052
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:23 am
Contact:

Re: [TOGos] [15.21] oil, stone, uranium do not spawn with minimal settings

Post by Rseding91 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:31 pm

Frightning wrote:
Ranakastrasz wrote:So is that what is happening, or is something else causing this issue? I can't tell if you are saying my guess is wrong, or if you are saying it is not a bug.

A depressing number of bugs have been called not-a-bug around here.
Well, technically they are right that it's not a bug in that 'it is working as designed/intended'. But that does NOT mean it is working as it ought to work. I certainly think it even on very low frequency+size you should still be able to find all resources outside of your start....if you look far and wide enough.
Picture this: a mod developer tweaks his resource so on very-high it spawns 1 ore per 50,000 chunks. Now you put it on very low - do you think you'll ever see it on a given map?

I personally don't consider it worth spending time on because of that exact scenario.
If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on Discord.

Post Reply

Return to “Resolved Problems and Bugs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users