Need help: Train station; was Flexible Cargo Wagon Alignment

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againey
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Need help: Train station; was Flexible Cargo Wagon Alignment

Post by againey »

I moved it into gameplay help. See the reason for this in the third post -- ssilk

Given the upcoming changes to make train car lengths more consistent, I was thinking of some further related changes that would make it easier to design train stations effectively. One idea is to provide small spacer train cars which essentially do nothing, but can be added to a train just like any other train car, and which will space out the cargo wagons. This is so that train loading/unloading stations can have more room and use more precise alignment when placing the chests and inserters for each cargo wagon.

Below is an example of the current situation, with an attempt to maximum the unloading rate (and idealized a bit to presume that cargo wagons are exactly 7 tiles long). It doesn't really work very well because there's not enough room to arrange the belts. Plus the chests make an impassable wall which is inconvenient. And there's nowhere to place electric poles, so substations are mandatory.
A dense train in the current (0.12) version, though assuming idealized perfectly-7-tile long cargo wagons, at a poorly working high-speed unloading station.
A dense train in the current (0.12) version, though assuming idealized perfectly-7-tile long cargo wagons, at a poorly working high-speed unloading station.
Factorio - 2016-03-25-20-28 - Compressed Train.jpg (188.52 KiB) Viewed 2429 times
Here is a proposed situation, with optional 2x2 spacer train cars placed at the player's discretion. Also, I've shortened down the cargo wagons to be exactly 6 tiles long, which opens up the option of using medium electric poles instead of substations. That latter change might be unpopular if people are used to their 7-tile cargo wagons, but that middle tile always causes me so much annoyance.
A hypothetical train consisting of spacer cars and 6-tile long cargo wagons, at a roomier high-speed unloading station.
A hypothetical train consisting of spacer cars and 6-tile long cargo wagons, at a roomier high-speed unloading station.
Factorio - 2016-03-25-20-28 - Spaced Train.jpg (199.36 KiB) Viewed 2429 times
I considered 1-tile long spacers too, but that might get tricky with art, trying to find something that doesn't look unnatural. Plenty of other stuff with trains are already confined to 2x2 squares anyway, so at least it follows a consistent pattern.

These spacer cars wouldn't be expected to add much weight to the train, so as not to discourage players from using because they need to balance a desire to have efficient trains and fewer engines with the desire to have clean stations that aren't overly cramped and messy.
Last edited by ssilk on Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed title accoring to the move
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Re: Spacer Train Cars for Flexible Cargo Wagon Alignment

Post by ssilk »

Sorry, but...
Image

Why should that extra space be needed? It makes trains just ... longer...
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againey
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Re: Spacer Train Cars for Flexible Cargo Wagon Alignment

Post by againey »

Sorry, but... ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Um, yes?
Why should that extra space be needed? It makes trains just ... longer...
Well yes, making the train longer is a direct consequence of wanting a train station to be more spaced out. Is a little bit of additional train length a serious problem? And does no one else but me have problems when trying to maximize the number of inserters working each cargo wagon on a multi-wagon train? It gets overly cramped every time I try; I need a little bit of room to force belt T-junctions rather than curves, put in splitters, use underground belts and the like to maximize and load-balance the output from the chests after they've been filled from the train. All sorts of little belt and inserter related tricks need a few extra tiles here and there to function.

I considered using entire empty cargo wagons to space things out, but even I think that's just excessive. Plus I presume (but haven't tested) that additional cargo wagons, even when empty, add weight to a train and slow down it's acceleration. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I couldn't find any clear information on that, and haven't tested it out myself yet.

I'll concede the possibility that I'm just missing an obvious solution that's already available, and will continue to be available when trains get more consistent alignments in 0.13. But I haven't been able to find it or figure it out yet, and my proposal would indeed solve this difficulty. It's not a horrifically severe difficulty, but it was irritating enough to motivate me to consider possible solutions, and take some time to put together a proposal.
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Re: Spacer Train Cars for Flexible Cargo Wagon Alignment

Post by ssilk »

Ah, ok. Now I understand. :)

I recommend you to have a deep look on what the community is producing:
- here in the forum mainly the "show your creations" and " Gameplay help", you can ask also there and I'll move now your suggestion into that board, cause I'm sure they can help you much better. :)
- Some (clever) search, like: search.php?keywords=%2B%22train+station%22+setup
- The reddit forum for Factorio
- Some (youtube) videos about train station setup...
- Google
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