How is this board working?

Ideas, that are too old (too much things changed) or won't be implemented cause of some reasons or if there are obvious better suggestions.

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ssilk
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How is this board working?

Post by ssilk »

Suggestions (This board)
You can post any suggestion here. If it is good, maybe nobody will say anything. If not, the forum will discuss it. :)

The suggestion is then either
- picked up by the devs, (if the forum knows about it it will be put directly into "Ready for implementation"
- further discussed (then it is put into "Backlog (old, but good stuff)" with the target to make a "Forum-Ready Suggestion" out of it.
- Eventually it is so good, that it lands directly into "Forum-Ready Suggestions"
- Eventually it is part of an epic, see down.
- If a suggestion is implemented it is put into "Implemented Suggestions"
- and if not or if the suggestion is outdated or it will have not enough game value: "Outdated/Not implemented".

Game value

Well, this is the biggest criteria for suggestions: What will this suggestion bring for the game-play?

That means, there is always a consideration: How much more complexity will a suggestion bring in vs. how much more game-play? Game-play vs. complexity.

The calculation is simple and in most cases very objective: If the awaited rise in complexity is higher, than the awaited rise in game-play, well, then this is not a good suggestion and without further arguments by the originator or someone else, it will be rejected quite surely. That may be discussed. If there are good arguments, which bring in more game-value, then this can change of course, nothing is fixed here, but the measurement is really this simple line.

We are not counting about afford in development! That is of course an argument, but if a suggestion is good enough it was always so, that it was implemented.

Some example:

A suggestion, which brings in more complexity than game-play: "I suggest a new type of inserter, that can rotate 90 degrees". This can already be done with the game (there are mods, that implement them), but it adds a very high complexity to the game (I need to built so many new types of inserters, or how to choose the right type of inserter?).

A suggestion, which brings in more game-play than complexity: "Female Character". This has a high game value vs. complexity, but is of course complex to implement. But this is not the job of this forum to estimate the afford. Perhaps everything is already finished to implement it right in one day. :)

[This will be redone soon, see discussion
Epics
(that is a new idea, that I will try now)
An epic in the sense of this forum (which can be discussed of course, but I need to make some kind of doing it now) is a collection of suggestions, which are all pointing into one direction.

You can find epics, if you use the advanced search, search for "epic:" under "suggestions" in "topic titles only". (I'll fix it, that they all can be found like so!)

TODO: List of epics.
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/sea ... mit=Search List epics.

TODO: Move all epic topics in a new subboard.
]
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Re: How is this board working?

Post by DaveMcW »

I never read subboards. I see them as a place for threads to die.

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Re: How is this board working?

Post by ssilk »

This is a subboard. Maybe you mean subboards of subboards? :twisted:
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Re: How is this board working?

Post by tobsimon »

I don't like the word "epic" for that. I understand what you are trying to do as "concept". Let's use that word. It's a little longer, but more to the point, I think. Also this tag should be placed inside [brackets], since they are visually more easily distinguishable in the topic overview.

But my main concern is, that you said an epic (concept) should be a collection of ideas, and at another point it is stated, that every idea should have it's own topic.
Merging the idea threads into their concept thread is really bad for discussion and contradicts the rules. Copying the ideas is equally bad.
A concept thread should be strictly limited to a link list of relevant idea threads, with the only allowed discussion on the integration of the individual ideas, but not the ideas itself.

The individual ideas don't get any tags in ther topics, but a link to the concept it belongs to, just as ssilk-bot is doing it now with the link list of relevant and similar ideas.

Example:

Topic: Tsunami
Post: The shoreline is the safest, easely defended place currently. But you should be never safe ever anywhere. So there should be a tsunami every now and then, severly damaging the factory, whashing away all the items on the belts. You may build walls as levee.
Later in topic, or edit in first post: ssilk-bot here. This suggestion was added to the concept of environmental disasters, link. Similar suggestions here, here and here.

Topic: [Concept] Environmental disasters
Post: The environment in factorio should be a more dangerous place to make the game more interesting. Relevant ideas: Tsunami, destroys the factory near the shore. Vulcanism, big destruction, leaves ore, possibly an ash cloud. Earthquake, everything is shaky. Please keep the discussion about the ideas in their respective topics.
Second post: Hate the concept. If my careful built factory gets destroyed by a stupid volcanic eruption, I'd surely jump out a window.
Third post: Cool stuff, but to safe the life of the previous poster, it should be an option to disable in the difficulty settings. Maybe even set the frequency, severity, etc.

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Re: How is this board working?

Post by ssilk »

That was the reason to have epics/concepts: Ideas that cannot be merged, but are around one basic problem/idea. We have many of them.

no time to discuss this in detail, maybe this evening.
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Re: How is this board working?

Post by ssilk »

Ok, I had now time to read this once more. Then I thought a while. Result: You are right. :)

I think the right way would be to have "concept" topics only, which are mainly a list of links and leave the originating stuff untouched.

Sorry everyone for this changes, but I think it is understandable, that I need to try out things, before we have the right way. BTW: I will not do it today or tomorrow.
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Re: How is this board working?

Post by Adolf01 »

Thanks for the sharing.
If someone post is good. then forum member have to praise him/her by sending message.
Is it good or not?

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Re: How is this board working?

Post by ssilk »

Hm. It depends. There are very good suggestions buried here, without any comments.

In my experience "no answer" means:
- I share the idea more or less.
- I don't have a better idea.
- I don't miss-like it. :)

It depends also on who is answering. There are people - like me :) - which always make stupid comments (to your luck: It happens often, that I write a comment, that I delete then). Or like Kovarex, slpwnd or the whole dev-team, which - if they make comments - are very important to read. That is not valid for the suggestions themselves: We have here very good suggestions, by users, that make only one post.

So, yes, if you agree or like a suggestion, you can make a comment. And with the time the others know, how to value that. But it makes no sense to say just "YES, I like it". The sense of the forum is discussion!


So the relevant part is not "Yes, I like it" or "No, I don't like it", but how and especially why you are thinking about it.
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Epics/Concepts/Drafts ??

Post by ssilk »

Sorry for reposting.

TL;DR: We are basically speaking of either "concepts" or "themes". Which do you like better?


The long explanation:
I talked a lot with other developers and asked them what word matches best to what I want to do. I asked for:
- drafts
- concepts
- and epics.
70% said "Epic". Drafts is completely wrong (which can be seen now, the user use it to write suggestions). Concepts is ok, but means a bit different thing: A concept is already about "how" to do it. This explains, why I don't like the word "concept" that much.
So I have been searing around, and I found also this: http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/blo ... and-themes

I think that explains it: Epic is a big user-story (or suggestion). Which I don't mean. I mean collections of suggestions. So, I'm not so firm with English, that I can decide, which is therefore the best word. But I thing "Themes", as suggested in the linked article is not so bad....

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Re: How is this board working?

Post by tobsimon »

Yes, I think "theme" perfectly fits the purpose. Easy word and immediately transports the idea, that it is a collection of connected individual ideas. "Concept" doesn't do that. "Epic" sounds strange to everyone who doesn't know about the role of user stories in software development.

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Re: How is this board working?

Post by ssilk »

Ok, I now had time and because I turnd this idea for more than a month in my mind I came (hopefully) to a conclusion: This subboard is just for "link articles". No own suggestions should be made here, only links.

This should replace also this article: FREQUENTLY SUGGESTED IDEAS https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=4806

the basic sense: One can search easier. He finds the right links faster.
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