Too many last minute changes

[Eulenberg]

In my opinion, the "last minute changes" are mostly things not mentioned in FFF:

- Basic asteroid crushing change
- Hazard concrete change
- Railgun shooting speed change
- etc.

Since there wasn't an announcement in the previous FFF, I expected there will be another FFF before beta release, which made the changes "feel" last minute, even if some of them could have been merged a long time ago.

Anyway, it will take some play testing to really comprehend.

These changes are band-aid fixes on top of band-aid, that got thrown in last second for an fundamentally flawed system that’s is the quality mod itself, . its an unfinished and rushed approach to vertical scaling on engine base. Instead of admitting that the system is flawed and working on a revamp, they doubled down on it.
@Rseding91 suggesting to cheat in infinity chests, if you are not happy with the concrete changes, is just a ludicrous testament to this. The more 2.1 unfolds i get the feeling that there is a clear split in the dev team, a small minority of talent that still cares about factorio, and the rest that wants to finish factorio as fast as possible to move on to wowtorio. This is the reason we dont see any new ideas to engage with quality like quality seeds or quality mixing just to give some ideas that were given by the players, it to much work for to little gain, too much time wasted that could be spent on the next project. in 2.1 we have got some spare boons thrown, in order to overlook the bigger picture. the devs that want to move on ,understandable , for them its easier to make a part of the game feel miserable and claim it works now "as intended" to silence all the people that complain, then to come up with a real solution. being able to play without quality is just prove of that, some parts of the game are balanced around having faster inserters beacons and crafters for example, now they can say if you dont like it then disable it or install a mod/cheat like @Rseding91 suggests. I believe there was an attempt to even fix quality, but it turned out to be too much of an investment, thats why we didnt got the stand-alone recycler mod earlier. Factorio was a game that was developed along side its community for a majority of its lifespan, and deserves praise for this, but these time are long over. Not acknowledging, let alone engaging in conversation about or giving reason to any of the complains made to the changes, is prove.
The additional changes were "hidded from "/not talked about in the FFFs, to cover this whole misery.

[Necronium]

In my opinion, the "last minute changes" are mostly things not mentioned in FFF:

- Basic asteroid crushing change
- Hazard concrete change
- Railgun shooting speed change
- etc.

Since there wasn't an announcement in the previous FFF, I expected there will be another FFF before beta release, which made the changes "feel" last minute, even if some of them could have been merged a long time ago.

Anyway, it will take some play testing to really comprehend.

These changes are band-aid fixes on top of band-aid, that got thrown in last second for an fundamentally flawed system that’s is the quality mod itself, . its an unfinished and rushed approach to vertical scaling on engine base. Instead of admitting that the system is flawed and working on a revamp, they doubled down on it.
@Rseding91 suggesting to cheat in infinity chests, if you are not happy with the concrete changes, is just a ludicrous testament to this. The more 2.1 unfolds i get the feeling that there is a clear split in the dev team, a small minority of talent that still cares about factorio, and the rest that wants to finish factorio as fast as possible to move on to wowtorio. This is the reason we dont see any new ideas to engage with quality like quality seeds or quality mixing just to give some ideas that were given by the players, it to much work for to little gain, too much time wasted that could be spent on the next project. in 2.1 we have got some spare boons thrown, in order to overlook the bigger picture. the devs that want to move on ,understandable , for them its easier to make a part of the game feel miserable and claim it works now "as intended" to silence all the people that complain, then to come up with a real solution. being able to play without quality is just prove of that, some parts of the game are balanced around having faster inserters beacons and crafters for example, now they can say if you dont like it then disable it or install a mod/cheat like @Rseding91 suggests. I believe there was an attempt to even fix quality, but it turned out to be too much of an investment, thats why we didnt got the stand-alone recycler mod earlier. Factorio was a game that was developed along side its community for a majority of its lifespan, and deserves praise for this, but these time are long over. Not acknowledging, let alone engaging in conversation about or giving reason to any of the complains made to the changes, is prove.
The additional changes were "hidded from "/not talked about in the FFFs, to cover this whole misery.

Here you are as always complaining without any sensible solutions. You even managed to spread misinformation about devs, which looking at your behaviour on this forum shouldnt be surprising anymore. Just cause you are vocal minority complaining cause you have literal skill issue with quality it doesnt matter that most Factorio players have that.

Players were complaing that they can't disable quality from SA, they got that now and you pretend like devs don't listen to players just cause your wishes werent granted.

[Eulenberg]

In my opinion, the "last minute changes" are mostly things not mentioned in FFF:

- Basic asteroid crushing change
- Hazard concrete change
- Railgun shooting speed change
- etc.

Since there wasn't an announcement in the previous FFF, I expected there will be another FFF before beta release, which made the changes "feel" last minute, even if some of them could have been merged a long time ago.

Anyway, it will take some play testing to really comprehend.

These changes are band-aid fixes on top of band-aid, that got thrown in last second for an fundamentally flawed system that’s is the quality mod itself, . its an unfinished and rushed approach to vertical scaling on engine base. Instead of admitting that the system is flawed and working on a revamp, they doubled down on it.
@Rseding91 suggesting to cheat in infinity chests, if you are not happy with the concrete changes, is just a ludicrous testament to this. The more 2.1 unfolds i get the feeling that there is a clear split in the dev team, a small minority of talent that still cares about factorio, and the rest that wants to finish factorio as fast as possible to move on to wowtorio. This is the reason we dont see any new ideas to engage with quality like quality seeds or quality mixing just to give some ideas that were given by the players, it to much work for to little gain, too much time wasted that could be spent on the next project. in 2.1 we have got some spare boons thrown, in order to overlook the bigger picture. the devs that want to move on ,understandable , for them its easier to make a part of the game feel miserable and claim it works now "as intended" to silence all the people that complain, then to come up with a real solution. being able to play without quality is just prove of that, some parts of the game are balanced around having faster inserters beacons and crafters for example, now they can say if you dont like it then disable it or install a mod/cheat like @Rseding91 suggests. I believe there was an attempt to even fix quality, but it turned out to be too much of an investment, thats why we didnt got the stand-alone recycler mod earlier. Factorio was a game that was developed along side its community for a majority of its lifespan, and deserves praise for this, but these time are long over. Not acknowledging, let alone engaging in conversation about or giving reason to any of the complains made to the changes, is prove.
The additional changes were "hidded from "/not talked about in the FFFs, to cover this whole misery.

Here you are as always complaining without any sensible solutions. You even managed to spread misinformation about devs, which looking at your behaviour on this forum shouldnt be surprising anymore. Just cause you are vocal minority complaining cause you have literal skill issue with quality it doesnt matter that most Factorio players have that.

Players were complaing that they can't disable quality from SA, they got that now and you pretend like devs don't listen to players just cause your wishes werent granted.

People like you really think building a upcycle build involves any form of skill, that people who want a more engaging system instead are lacking, quite some elitist mindset sir.

The issue with quality is not that its to hard without casinos, i could not care less, i know that they are not needed. but the fact the system doesnt flow well with the rest of the game, on top of being repetitive and grindy.

I dont spread any misinformation, i clearly say this is my opinion/conclusion of what is going on right now, if that wasnt clear im doing it now! So tell me then why didnt we get that recycler mod earlier, why dont let the people disable quality, when they asked for it 1.5 years ago, why let them wait all that time? From what i know about the game it not really a big effort to make it stand-alone. I just said about these things what i really think about them, and i stand behind it, i even apologised at times when i could not see the bigger picture myself. As long as we are just thrown these changes without any additional context/reasoning or improvement, together with the fact that these changes are kind of "silently" moved in around the group of people who play stable and only read FFFs, i cant but make these conclusions.

The issue with quality is not that its to hard without casinos, i could not care less, i know that they are not needed. but the fact the system doesnt flow well with the rest of the game. on top of being repetitive and grindy.

[Necronium]

In my opinion, the "last minute changes" are mostly things not mentioned in FFF:

- Basic asteroid crushing change
- Hazard concrete change
- Railgun shooting speed change
- etc.

Since there wasn't an announcement in the previous FFF, I expected there will be another FFF before beta release, which made the changes "feel" last minute, even if some of them could have been merged a long time ago.

Anyway, it will take some play testing to really comprehend.

These changes are band-aid fixes on top of band-aid, that got thrown in last second for an fundamentally flawed system that’s is the quality mod itself, . its an unfinished and rushed approach to vertical scaling on engine base. Instead of admitting that the system is flawed and working on a revamp, they doubled down on it.
@Rseding91 suggesting to cheat in infinity chests, if you are not happy with the concrete changes, is just a ludicrous testament to this. The more 2.1 unfolds i get the feeling that there is a clear split in the dev team, a small minority of talent that still cares about factorio, and the rest that wants to finish factorio as fast as possible to move on to wowtorio. This is the reason we dont see any new ideas to engage with quality like quality seeds or quality mixing just to give some ideas that were given by the players, it to much work for to little gain, too much time wasted that could be spent on the next project. in 2.1 we have got some spare boons thrown, in order to overlook the bigger picture. the devs that want to move on ,understandable , for them its easier to make a part of the game feel miserable and claim it works now "as intended" to silence all the people that complain, then to come up with a real solution. being able to play without quality is just prove of that, some parts of the game are balanced around having faster inserters beacons and crafters for example, now they can say if you dont like it then disable it or install a mod/cheat like @Rseding91 suggests. I believe there was an attempt to even fix quality, but it turned out to be too much of an investment, thats why we didnt got the stand-alone recycler mod earlier. Factorio was a game that was developed along side its community for a majority of its lifespan, and deserves praise for this, but these time are long over. Not acknowledging, let alone engaging in conversation about or giving reason to any of the complains made to the changes, is prove.
The additional changes were "hidded from "/not talked about in the FFFs, to cover this whole misery.

Here you are as always complaining without any sensible solutions. You even managed to spread misinformation about devs, which looking at your behaviour on this forum shouldnt be surprising anymore. Just cause you are vocal minority complaining cause you have literal skill issue with quality it doesnt matter that most Factorio players have that.

Players were complaing that they can't disable quality from SA, they got that now and you pretend like devs don't listen to players just cause your wishes werent granted.

People like you really think building a upcycle build involves any form of skill, that people who want a more engaging system instead are lacking, quite some elitist mindset sir.

The issue with quality is not that its to hard without casinos, i could not care less, i know that they are not needed. but the fact the system doesnt flow well with the rest of the game, on top of being repetitive and grindy.

I dont spread any misinformation, i clearly say this is my opinion/conclusion of what is going on right now, if that wasnt clear im doing it now! So tell me then why didnt we get that recycler mod earlier, why dont let the people disable quality, when they asked for it 1.5 years ago, why let them wait all that time? From what i know about the game it not really a big effort to make it stand-alone. I just said about these things what i really think about them, and i stand behind it, i even apologised at times when i could not see the bigger picture myself. As long as we are just thrown these changes without any additional context/reasoning or improvement, together with the fact that these changes are kind of "silently" moved in around the group of people who play stable and only read FFFs, i cant but make these conclusions.

The issue with quality is not that its to hard without casinos, i could not care less, i know that they are not needed. but the fact the system doesnt flow well with the rest of the game. on top of being repetitive and grindy.

Since when playing the game is elitist midset? Strange standard you want to push here.

Funny that you say you don't care about casino but your activity on this forum says otherwise. And about misinformation, who is talking about Rseding here? Me or you?

And the cherry on top saying that something is repetitive in Factorio, Do you started playing this game last week? You change one item into another and if something is grindy you can make more thats entire point of this game. You could add "tedious" argument here to make it even more emotional one rather than logical.

[quineotio]

Wube held back changes they could have and should have released a long time ago in order to buy goodwill and distract from the fact they they aren't fixing/improving other parts of the game because they don't want to work on Factorio any more.

[Eulenberg]

Wube held back changes they could have and should have released a long time ago in order to buy goodwill and distract from the fact they they aren't fixing/improving other parts of the game because they don't want to work on Factorio any more.

this is the feeling i get from 2.1 so far, i hope im wrong, but i cant help myself to think thats whats going on here

[Kyralessa]

What changes do you believe were last minute and or what changes do you think are buggy and will need fixing?

I don't have any specific bugs right now.

So this is basically speculative complaining?

[sarge945]

So this is basically speculative complaining?

To be fair, if you invest early, the speculative complaining market on this forum is doing quite well right now, with plenty of room for growth and expansion.

[Eulenberg]

What changes do you believe were last minute and or what changes do you think are buggy and will need fixing?

I don't have any specific bugs right now.

So this is basically speculative complaining?

there are already examples of this, in game rn, the hub hp and res. buffs are a last minute band-aid fix, because apparently wube did not consider/account for anyone building platforms on a other orbit than nauvis, without these changes the hubs would get insta oneshot in vulcanus orbit for example, and also that system-edge does not allow for p2p logistics, em plants now need a pump to behave like in 2.0 for some recipes, etc pp. a lot of things are ether band-aid fixes or half baked concepts to distract from the fact the core issues will most likely not getting addressed

[sarge945]

I'm going to wait and see for a few weeks, but I suspect that some of these changes will grow on me, and others I will hate.

I think the best time to evaluate a new patch is when everyone has had a good chance to sit down and really figure it out.

I do think a follow up patch will be needed though, there's bound to be something that people are (rightly) unhappy with, and for good reasons. But we first need to get past the "Unnerf space casino!!!" and other knee-jerk initial reactions and really let everyone play the patch for a while.