Multiple Types of Scrap

[Loup&Snoop]

TL;DR

Add a few different types of scrap to Fulgora, each yielding a different distribution of the items present in normal scrap.

What?

Add 3 new types of mineable scrap nodes on Fulgora. The types of scrap nodes and what they recycle to are:

• Scrap classic => Standard current scrap

• Electronic scrap => copper cable, advanced circuit, processing units, batteries.

• Structural scrap => iron gear, steel, low density structure, concrete

• Mineral scrap => ice, holmium ore, stone, solid fuel

Like uranium, specialized scrap types only become mineable AFTER researching a technology for it which requires electromagnetic science packs. This preserves the initial challenge of fulgora, while opening up more options afterward (enticing players to return to build more on Fulgora).

These other scrap types allow you to preferentially get a whole lot more of a specific class of stuff. It should also allow the player to use skillful play to reduce the burden of voiding byproducts when trying to actually use Fulgora to mass produce something.

Why?

There are 3 main problems with fulgora:

1) Scaling anything is terrible, because you will always get a ton of marerial you don’t need for that one thing (by design). As a result, Fulgora is never the best planet to make anything you could make somewhere else. It should have been a haven to make high end electronics, but instead loses out to the other planets that allow mass production of a given item.

2) Fulgora’s landscape is very samey. Every island is basically small with scrap, big with space, or medium with little scrap.

3) Fulgora basically has one main problem to solve: scrap makes sushi with a specific distribution of item. There are many ways to solve the scrap problem, but once you solved it one way, it feels done. Fulgora doesn’t feel like it has as much potential to build a variety of stuff as a result.

Adding a few different types of scrap addresses the above issues without compromising on the style and challenge of Fulgora.

[CyberCider]

1) Scaling anything is terrible, because you will always get a ton of marerial you don’t need for that one thing (by design). As a result, Fulgora is never the best planet to make anything you could make somewhere else. It should have been a haven to make high end electronics, but instead loses out to the other planets that allow mass production of a given item.

I don’t really get this part. Scaling anything? The only thing you ever deliberately scale on Fulgora is holmium. All other industry on the planet is just your preferred form of byproduct handling. That’s what Fulgora is about. It’s the byproduct planet, like Gleba is the spoilage planet. And Vulcanus is just the nothing planet I guess, it got left out for some reason

What makes you think Fulgora “should” be good at making electronics? You don’t make electronics on Fulgora, you just get them. Trying to make them from scratch is pretty hard, actually, due to the scarcity of plastic. What Fulgora excels at is quality.

[Loup&Snoop]

The only thing you ever deliberately scale on Fulgora is holmium. … What makes you think Fulgora “should” be good at making electronics?

IMO Every planet should be good at something besides their unique science. It drives the player to play more with that planet’s unique mechanics (in pursuit of strengthening their interplanetary empire). That is the point of locking so many things to each planet in the first place. Yet the planet where you can almost directly mine blue circuits is far worse at producing blue circuits than Vulcanus?

What Fulgora excels at is quality.

Not really. It is normally easier to just make anything you want in quality somewhere else. Why would I dig through scrap for quality batteries/circuits when Vulcanus can outproduce by sheer scale, or a space casino can get there through much simpler and efficient methods?

[angramania]

Yet the planet where you can almost directly mine blue circuits is far worse at producing blue circuits than Vulcanus?

Really? To produce one rocket of blue circuits per minute without modules you need:
Fulgora: 59 BMD, 117 recyclers, 10 AM3, 2 chemical plants, 43MW energy
Vulcanus: 34 BMD, 169 AM3, 65 chemical plants, 32 refinery, 101 foundry, 60 pumpjacks, 362MW energy
Even with EMP Vulcanus still requires more infrastructure, while having more problems with space:
Vulcanus: 21 BMD, 51 EMP, 10 AM3, 36 chemical plants, 20 refinery, 46 foundry, 27 pumpjacks, 243MW energy

[Loup&Snoop]

Really? To produce one rocket of blue circuits per minute without modules you need:
…
Vulcanus still requires more infrastructure, while having more problems with space

In what universe does Vulcanus have more problems with space than Fulgora?

On vulcanus vs Fulgora: 1) 5 MW requires 1 turbine on vulcanus (added to a giant repeating pattern) vs 100 accumulators awkwardly stuffed on tiny Fulgoran islands. And the Fulgoran power grid cannot be properly connected across without foundation from aquilo. 2) Blue chip prod that comes from Fulgora dramatically boosts Vulcan production. The same bonuses on Fulgora increase the amount of garbage to void proportionally, so there is minimal benefit. 3) You used the bad simple coal liquefaction recipe. I calculated Vulcanus needing 41 EMP, 33 foundries, 15 chem plants, 6 refineries (with just 40% blue chip prod tech) for 350 blue chips/min. And Vulcanus is going to spam prod modules on these steps using its huge amount of electricity, whereas Fulgora cannot.

Vulcanus can vastly outproduce Fulgora in anything that it is allowed to make. Vulcanus will use fewer machines for the same task than Fulgora, and the difference will grow even more once you start actually placing modules, and getting higher level infinite research.

[angramania]

In what universe does Vulcanus have more problems with space than Fulgora?

Just create new game with default settings and look at preview. Vulcanus platoes have less space than Fulgora islands and require killing demolishers.

On vulcanus vs Fulgora: 1) 5 MW requires 1 turbine on vulcanus (added to a giant repeating pattern) vs 100 accumulators awkwardly stuffed on tiny Fulgoran islands.

So you "forget" that turbine requires steam and it can be used on Fulgora as well. I do not like to not continue discussion with person who manipulate facts.

I calculated Vulcanus needing 41 EMP, 33 foundries, 15 chem plants, 6 refineries (with just 40% blue chip prod tech) for 350 blue chips/min.

And one more manipulation. Farewell.

[CyberCider]

Not really. It is normally easier to just make anything you want in quality somewhere else. Why would I dig through scrap for quality batteries/circuits when Vulcanus can outproduce by sheer scale, or a space casino can get there through much simpler and efficient methods?

You’re asking why you would dig through scrap? Because you’re looking for holmium, obviously. What else do you do on Fulgora? And in doing so, you will gets lots and lots of free material to do whatever you want with. And since it all comes out of recyclers, it essentially gets a free quality roll right at the start. You can even put quality modules in the drills, because scrap doesn’t go through a liquid step like regular ore. It has pretty great output, actually. After you build a scrap sorter/balancer, the quality process on Fulgora is more or less the same as anywhere else. So, why not do it there? The only thing it may struggle with is space platform parts, because they require tons of LDS. And setting it to produce all 4 types of modules instead of only quality modules may stress it, but I haven’t actually tried. Producing all modules on their own planets is the easiest, anyway.

Space casino is cheese. Being an oversight, it managed to totally escape any form of balancing. So obviously it’s superior to many things. That doesn’t really need to be stated.

IMO Every planet should be good at something besides their unique science. It drives the player to play more with that planet’s unique mechanics (in pursuit of strengthening their interplanetary empire).

The only thing this would accomplish is make the new planets even easier to build on. I don’t see the point. Fulgora is the only new planet that actually gives you any reason to produce anything but the local unlocks. Players can do it on Gleba and Vulcanus for fun, sure, but the game isn’t designed around this playstyle. I don’t imagine it realistically could be, without weirdly affecting the regular way.

[Loup&Snoop]

Space casino is cheese. Being an oversight,

Remember when you called for banning quality modules in crushers (125262)? That was both an unpopular opinion, and the method was known since the beta. It is not an oversight.

Scaling quality upcycling of raw resources in bulk on vulcanus is still vastly superior. It is not hard to make a small setup that produces 2 legendary iron/s on Vulc, and you will pick up prod bonuses as you craft up. As opposed to -75% per recycling step when crafting down. Unless prod modules are an oversight too?

I don’t see the point.

The point is to add variety to the fulgoran landscape and provide more options for large scale production of holmium-free things on fulgora as a later game challenge.

Just create new game with default settings and look at preview. Vulcanus platoes have less space than Fulgora islands and require killing demolishers.

Cliff explosives.

So you "forget" that turbine requires steam and it can be used on Fulgora as well.

On vulcanus, one calcite + (some acid) is worth 1 GJ. On Fulgora, given free fuel, one ice is worth 33 MJ (with full leg prod3), it is 20 scrap per ice, and you have to power a ton of recyclers to void everything else. I’m not forgetting how bad turbines are on Fulgora lmao.

(with just 40% blue chip prod tech) for 350 blue chips/min.

And one more manipulation. Farewell.

How is it manupulative to include a modest prod bonus that you are going to have after clearing Fulgora? And that prod bonus gets BIGGER as you go deeper into the game, not smaller.

[CyberCider]

Scaling quality upcycling of raw resources in bulk on vulcanus is still vastly superior. It is not hard to make a small setup that produces 2 legendary iron/s on Vulc, and you will pick up prod bonuses as you craft up. As opposed to -75% per recycling step when crafting down. Unless prod modules are an oversight too?

Fulgora is the planet with no raw resources at all. Obviously you wouldn't use that approach. You would upcycle intermediates, not raw resources. Once steel and circuits are out of the way, the need for iron plates and copper plates becomes much smaller. And the majority of iron plate will be going into gears anyway, and obtaining those on Fulgora doesn't involve any downcrafting. Interestingly, the ocean of heavy oil is very helpful in this case. Since you have an endless amount of lubricant at your disposal, you can freely use blue undergrounds as a very fast and efficient gear upcycling recipe.

I don’t see the point.

The point is to add variety to the fulgoran landscape and provide more options for large scale production of holmium-free things on fulgora as a later game challenge.

With this I was referring to the "every planet should be good at something besides its own unlocks" part. With this in mind, maybe what I wrote will make more sense.