[SA] Add more ways for T1 planets to interact

[Hares]

Currently, there is only one tech-based interaction between Vulcanus, Gleba, and Fulgora, and only one tech that requires science packs from multiple planets before Aquilo -- Rail support foundation, providing bonus on Fulgora after visiting Vulcanus. It would be nice to have more of those.

Just some ideas thrown onto a fan:

• Vulcanus imported tech:
  • Note: Let's be honest, Vulcanus as it is right now is up-to-boringly easy compared to all other planets, including Nauvis. I suggest increasing difficulty a bit by default and add new tech to make life easier later
  • from Gleba: Seismic distractor node, allows either distract (for building on their territory) or attract (for demolishing) Demolishers. Should probably also increase default health of medium/big Demolishers. Like x2 and x5.
  • from Fulgora: Unlock advanced acid neutralization recipe (current one, turns acid into hot steam). Simple acid neutralization (unlocked upon arriving on Vulcanus) turns acid into water
• Fulgora imported tech:
  • from Vulcanus: Rail support foundation, allows building rail supports on the oil ocean (already in game)
  • from Gleba: Synthetic nutrients from solid fuel & acid, allows usage of biochambers on other planets (inability to do so w/o imports is, in my opinion, a design flaw)
• Gleba imported tech:
  • from Vulcanus: Seismic radar upgrade for radars, revealing stompers and demolishers from a large radius (only affects generated chunks)
  • from Fulgora: Bioprocessors, a new recipe made in EM plants which turns carbon fiber and copper bacteria into processing units. Would simplify rocket ingredient chain AND reduce repetitivity in gameplay

If you have thoughts on the proposal, or other suggestions -- feel free to share them.

See Also:
121211: Gleba early game should be made easier significantly

[CyberCider]

• from Gleba: Synthetic nutrients from solid fuel & acid, allows usage of biochambers on other planets (inability to do so w/o imports is, in my opinion, a design flaw)

Hard disagree on this. Special buildings requiring constant imports to operate is imo one of the better concepts the expansion introduced.

Actually, when I first read the title of your post, I imagined it would be about logistical interaction instead of technological. It’s kind of funny that I found the exact opposite.

I understand that the developers wanted to avoid SE-style “mining outpost” gameplay that sort of defeats the point of having multiple surfaces to begin with. But I feel like they may have gone just a little too far in the other direction. Sure, you can interconnect the planets, but why would you? It’s so much easier to make everything you need locally on every planet, because the resources are just so damn plentiful on all three. Up until Aquilo, your only regular imports besides science are calcite, artillery shell tungsten, and your nutrient source of choice. Special/quality buildings get shipped around too, but they aren’t part of production chains. They’re only delivered in batches whenever you need to build something, not regularly.

I would like to see more processes which truly require some of the new items to be used outside of their home planets. Something like your ideas, but a little more fleshed out and integrated into the gameplay. Although this sounds very difficult to add to the game in its current state without causing severe bloat/feature creep, so perhaps it would be best to leave it to mods.

[Hares]

[...]

Even though I can understand your position of interactions between planets, I can't agree with this assuming I understand chosen design philosophy for the Space Age. Otherwise you would probably end up with only one planet actually producing materials and other planets just importing rocket details without making any on-site (only science chain remains). Also, your proposal will eventually lead to a cascading disaster where accident on one planet destroys the entire system. I'm okay with your proposal being hardcore modpack, but I'd prefer the base game being simpler.

Also, just imagine new player discovering what you described and try to estimate chances of him not dropping the Cracktorio Factorio on the spot. However, your ideas are OK for the endgame (where it is right now) when the player already understood interplanetary production chains and where it is currently in game (Aquilo and System edge), but for the midgame (which I'm speaking of) – no.

However-however, I'd like to hear your suggestions on interplanetary production chains for the late game which should have enough payoff to make establishing them reasonable. The latter part, BTW, is the reason why I'm suggesting local production of nutrients – currently, it's just not reasonable enough to import bioflux just to run biochambers.

[CyberCider]

Even though I can understand your position of interactions between planets, I can't agree with this assuming I understand chosen design philosophy for the Space Age. Otherwise you would probably end up with only one planet actually producing materials and other planets just importing rocket details without making any on-site (only science chain remains).

Perhaps I should have specified one crucial detail. I meant to suggest that the items have to be used off their home planet, on one specific other planet. So for example, an item from Vulcanus being required to make something specifically on Gleba. The accessibility of basic resources/rocket components would remain intact, of course, I’m merely speculating about some more exotic manufacturing or efficiency increases. Of what, and for what reason? Well, I never claimed to actually have solid ideas… All I have is empty wishful thinking. It is as I said: Hard to balance and design in a satisfying way, and therefore best left to the realm of modding.

The latter part, BTW, is the reason why I'm suggesting local production of nutrients – currently, it's just not reasonable enough to import bioflux just to run biochambers.

Well, that’s entirely a matter of opinion.

Besides, on Nauvis at least, you’re most certainly not doing it just for biochambers. You’re probably doing it primarily for keeping biter spawners captive. And captive spawners just so happen to produce a very nutrient dense item at no additional cost. Nutrients on Nauvis are effectively “free”, if you handle them correctly.

Vulcanus would require dedicated bioflux shipments, but considering its enormous rocket capacity and long spoil time, I really don’t consider it a particularly challenging affair all in all. And coal liquefaction requires so much cracking, in my eyes it most certainly pays off. And just think of the rocket fuel costs of launching every single belt you will ever place…

On Fulgora both ice and solid fuel are waste products, and heavy oil is free. Productivity on light oil/rocket fuel production would be more detrimental than beneficial. So Fulgora remains isolated in this regard, once more. It has a habit of doing that, I’ve noticed. No enemies, no molten metals, virtually no oil processing… But I don’t mind it. I think it’s nice to break symmetry once in a while.