More Exciting Quality Effects (pls)

[Merlin_]

Most of the quality effects are good and fun, but some are just a let-down.

Quite often it's just "more health" aka "nothing".


Here are just some:

- quality belts are not faster
- quality underground belts/pipes don't reach further
- quality locomotives and cars are not faster

- quality cargo pods, chests and (fluid-)wagons all don't hold more items
- quality boiler, nuclear reactor, and turbines are not more efficient. Just consumes more with same ratio (Always better to just build more)

- quality agricultural tower just has 'more health'
- quality cliff explosives have higher throwing range instead of higher AOE (no point)
- quality Offshore pump doesn't pump faster

And most importantly:

- quality atomic bomb is not bigger, just more damage. Everything dies anyway.
If the game lets me make a legendary Atomic bomb, I want a legendary Atomic bomb pls


Right now, these quality items ^^^ provide no value. Maybe you can just make that a little more exciting.

Much Love <3. Awesome Game!

[JackTheSpades]

I agree that some items are really disappointing when you see how great/intuitive other items are.

I don't know how useful faster belts are since you usually need them by the thousands but at least longer underground belts and pipes could be used individually in certain situations, which would also provide some nice early game usage for quality.

Trains also feel really neglected. Even with all the new infinite researches and quality modules we still have no way to upgrade trains other than using better fuel. Speed/Breaking Force would be a nice payoff.

Rocket Silos could use a productivity bonus instead of just speed. Since there is an actual infinite research for it anyway it wouldn't really hurt to reward someone who goes through the trouble of making a high quality silo.

Laser Turrets only gain more range. It would be great if Energy Per Shot also went down. Once again making them more valuable in the early game pre nuclear power.

[Riyshn]

Quality fluid recipes could use some love, too. I understand not wanting to make actual "quality fluid" recipes, but why do those recipes even exist in their current state? It's especially egregious with the Holmium Solution recipe, as that's the only direct use for Holmium Ore; Why do the basic recipe and Legendary recipe have the same output, despite the value difference in the ingredients?

[Stringweasel]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/quality-rebalance

[Mur]

Quality fluid recipes could use some love, too. I understand not wanting to make actual "quality fluid" recipes, but why do those recipes even exist in their current state? It's especially egregious with the Holmium Solution recipe, as that's the only direct use for Holmium Ore; Why do the basic recipe and Legendary recipe have the same output, despite the value difference in the ingredients?

Not sure why quality liquid exists as its not used in the craft. It should just make larger quantities of the normal solution.

[Stargateur]

cause belt with quality would break the balance of the game I think.

Personally, I still didn't play enough (lol only 120 hours since the start of space age) to know if we really miss some effect.

BUT I would like quality lamp to light more.

[Kyralessa]

- quality Offshore pump doesn't pump faster

That used to be true:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118651

Version 2.0.13

Minor Features

[space-age] Offshore pump speed increases with quality.

[Kyralessa]

I'd like to see more quality features with the car. The car used to be not that interesting in Factorio, but with the new map changes it's a great way to get around now.

It does have more health and longer machine gun range.

Other possibilities for a higher-quality car:

- More trunk space.
- Tighter turning radius.
- Faster movement (per fuel type).

It would also be cool to have an equipment grid, even if a small one, on the car, which could then grow with quality as with the tank.

[Riyshn]

Quality fluid recipes could use some love, too. I understand not wanting to make actual "quality fluid" recipes, but why do those recipes even exist in their current state? It's especially egregious with the Holmium Solution recipe, as that's the only direct use for Holmium Ore; Why do the basic recipe and Legendary recipe have the same output, despite the value difference in the ingredients?

Thinking about it more, this same thing would apply to any Foundry smelting, too. Is quality iron/copper ore ever worth trying to get, when it doesn't benefit the Foundry recipe and you could put 4 quality modules in that instead of 2?

[imi___]

Nobody mentioned the Roboports yet?

Higher Quality on Roboports really should increase their area.

[BraveCaperCat]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/quality-rebalance

That mod is depreciated. So I've made a fork!
Well... kind of. It's currently exactly the same as the original.

[Theragus]

Hi, sorry for the revival of old post!
but I found this topic interesting enough!

Some of these proposals have already been implemented, for instance, chest scaling with quality and pumping speed of offshore pumps

I do find most of these changes here to be pretty good and interesting to make quality feel more like a "goal" to aim for certain items.
Especially the rocket silo is for me currently a very questionable implementation since animation speed is gonna be your limiting factor, which you will hit... pretty quickly in the game... before even building a single quality rocket silo...

some of the changes although wouldn't fit in very well, for instance, the change for Steam Turbines, Boilers, Steam Engines, Heat Exchangers, etc...

if you change the efficiency / ratios of these buildings (for instance, more Power out of same steam, more steam out of water, more heat out of fuel etc...) it would through off builds if you suddenly change their ratios, that's also the reason why larger roboport coverage sounds nice, but doesn't make much sense in this context.

generally, quality is thought with space platforms in mind, where "Space" comes at a premium "price", therefore the less space you use the more "efficient" it becomes, in a sense that just "build more of it" on platforms always has drawbacks (weight, space, power, foundations etc...)

So I think in general the buildings just working "faster" is better than trying to change any ratios or functionality which would pretty much force you to redesign entire builds based on which quality level you have access to.
This allows you to still benefit from Quality by just making specific parts of your factory or even single machines run faster, without increasing their "footprint" (size, beacons etc...), it's just a straight-up increase in production rate.
Also this ties in very well with the way you build quality machines because you just "produce more" machines by sacrificing some of them for a roll at higher quality.
In the context of "Always better to just build more" you're basically doing exactly that, just that you're not placing these machines down and instead recycle them for higher quality, so the end result in that you produce more of this item is the same.

This way it allows you to benefit from the "lucky" Epic machine placements in certain places while you can still have the possibility to redesign entire builds at later stages of the game around legendary quality if you have enough of them

[AileTheAlien]

without increasing their "footprint" (size, beacons etc...), it's just a straight-up increase in production rate

All of the electric poles get longer ranges though, so that's not really correct.

if you change the efficiency / ratios of these buildings (for instance, more Power out of same steam, more steam out of water, more heat out of fuel etc...) it would through off builds if you suddenly change their ratios

If you just got more of something from the same inputs, it wouldn't force you to change your builds. It would just allow you to change them, which I think is a good thing. Plus, accumulators, liquid tanks, and chests already have different storage for the same footprint, which already allows you to change your blueprints. I'm pretty sure more types of bonuses would always just allow more viable builds but not force them, except for maybe things that have a 100% loop right now. But I think the only thing with that, is the re-circulating coolant in fusion reactors, and that should be balance-able if you keep the ratios between those two buildings (and their bonuses) the same.

[Theragus]

Hi,

without increasing their "footprint" (size, beacons etc...), it's just a straight-up increase in production rate

All of the electric poles get longer ranges though, so that's not really correct.

logistics buildings don't have a "production" in that kind of sense so my example was a bit unfitting, but the basic point here still stands, it allows you straight up upgrade a building without any changes to their footprint, in this case wire length and reach

if you change the efficiency / ratios of these buildings (for instance, more Power out of same steam, more steam out of water, more heat out of fuel etc...) it would through off builds if you suddenly change their ratios

If you just got more of something from the same inputs, it wouldn't force you to change your builds. It would just allow you to change them, which I think is a good thing. Plus, accumulators, liquid tanks, and chests already have different storage for the same footprint, which already allows you to change your blueprints. I'm pretty sure more types of bonuses would always just allow more viable builds but not force them, except for maybe things that have a 100% loop right now. But I think the only thing with that, is the re-circulating coolant in fusion reactors, and that should be balance-able if you keep the ratios between those two buildings (and their bonuses) the same.

it's true that there arent that many looping recipes in the game. Regarding your other points:
- Accumulators changing their battery size in 100% increments I think is mostly concerning Fulgora, where you don't really have a solar panel to accumulators ratio and the standard 30 % increase per Quality level would just not be sufficient enough, but I do agree it offsets their ratios which contradicts my point
- Storage Tanks do not benefit from quality
- chests are exactly as I described, they change their "effectiveness" due to having a larger capacity without changing their footprint, still, this doesn't break any existing builds.

[AileTheAlien]

[A bunch of stuff.]

Whoops, I wrote that last message late at night and imagined that storage tanks already had a bonus.

Anyways, you haven't explained how increasing the radius of roboports (or other similar changes) would break a build, instead of just allowing more efficient builds. Like, their robot-recharge rate has always been low enough that you either can't use them to easily replace all of your belts. (But if you do want to replace all belts, you need to spam roboports. )

[kitters]

- quality boiler, nuclear reactor, and turbines are not more efficient. Just consumes more with same ratio (Always better to just build more)

That's the whole point, no?
Quality production machines (assemblers, plants, chambers...) and ALSO ENERGY production units like solar, ....., nuclear - just have higher SPEED, which means, it's more SPACE efficient, but it does NOT give PRODUCTIVITY bonus.
So you literally always can "build more", that's was the idea.

So, it's perfectly in line with other things, in line with the whole picture.

[BraveCaperCat]

- quality boiler, nuclear reactor, and turbines are not more efficient. Just consumes more with same ratio (Always better to just build more)

That's the whole point, no?
Quality production machines (assemblers, plants, chambers...) and ALSO ENERGY production units like solar, ....., nuclear - just have higher SPEED, which means, it's more SPACE efficient, but it does NOT give PRODUCTIVITY bonus.
So you literally always can "build more", that's was the idea.

So, it's perfectly in line with other things, in line with the whole picture.

But it should have better productivity, otherwise quality is just a resource and ups saver. (and maybe useful when lining up ratios between different recipes)

[PureTilt]

- quality boiler, nuclear reactor, and turbines are not more efficient. Just consumes more with same ratio (Always better to just build more)

That's the whole point, no?
Quality production machines (assemblers, plants, chambers...) and ALSO ENERGY production units like solar, ....., nuclear - just have higher SPEED, which means, it's more SPACE efficient, but it does NOT give PRODUCTIVITY bonus.
So you literally always can "build more", that's was the idea.

So, it's perfectly in line with other things, in line with the whole picture.

But it should have better productivity, otherwise quality is just a resource and ups saver. (and maybe useful when lining up ratios between different recipes)

yes its exactly what quality are for

[Arcus]

My thought on the rocket silo issue is that you could give them reduced power consumption or allow them to buffer more rockets at a time.

[Tinyboss]

My thought on the rocket silo issue is that you could give them reduced power consumption or allow them to buffer more rockets at a time.

My preference is that it speeds up the animation.