Friday Facts #393 - Putting things on top of other things

[Ext3h]

Just checked, the video already IS 60fps. So this is already just as bad as it would appear ingame. 30 items per lane and second. So at 60fps, there is no sense of direction at all.

And for anyone not achieving a fixed 60fps, this would actually be much worse.

The only sane way to resolve this, would to DOUBLE the SPACING on the green belt or to properly implement MOTION BLUR in addition to that coloration variation.

[NotRexButCaesar]

Is it just me or does the second to last animation have two states? It seems to move some time and stay still some time. Someone else mentioned that lag would make the animation worse, but I do not think so: as the game lags, the belt speed would also decrease, whereas these belts move at full speed but have fewer frames.

Other than that, I personally have no problems with the item graphics themselves, but I am a bit irritated by the underground entrance being too small.

[Ext3h]

Is it just me or does the second to last animation have two states? It seems to move half the time and stay still half the time.

No, you are correct. You need at least 3 distinct frames in a loop to form a sense of motion. This one moves all the items 50% of their width (including the negative padding) per frame, so everything repeats every second frame.

It would need either to INCREASE the padding or DECREASE the speed for the visual to keep working.

[EustaceCS]

This FF issue is hotter than my last ex-gf.

[Kyralessa]

Bulk inserters move items in stacks and stack inserters move items in bulk. This update will make the game unplayable

It's true, though, the names are backwards. If this change is made, then a stack inserter should become the one that...stacks.

[ChefOfRamen]

How will this work with items that stack to 10, like low-density structures?

Definite "yes" to big mining drills outputting stacks, though. That makes them a bit more than just power creep. However, this makes me kinda want quality chests and cargo wagons now, since a steel chest of ore can now be depleted in less than a minute with one inserter.

[Kadet123]

I like the bulk inserter addition. But the new belt tier seems redundant to me, since the bulk inserter tech already increases belt capacity 4x, whereas the belt tier improvement is a 1.33x increase. Sure, we could have both, but it seems like two hands trying to scratch the same itch.

I especially like that long inserters can do filtering now too, and all of them can.

To help colorblind people, maybe consider giving different feet (or hands) to different tiers of inserters. Burners, yellows, and reds can have the traditional 3-foot/tripod base. Stack inserters can have a 4-foot base in a + pattern, bulk inserters can have a 4-foot base in a x pattern.

On the bulk inserter, what happens with items whose stack size is less than the bulk inserter hand size? For example, low density structures. I assume the bulk inserters will only pick up a stack (10 items) instead of a full hand (16 items). If that's true, when it drops them on a belt (which caps at 4 items per stack), I assume its going to put items on the belt in a 4-4-2 pattern (leaving incomplete stacks). I'm fine with that, just curious. Or does it still pick up a full hand size of 16, and place them in 4-4-4-4 on the belt?

[Kadet123]

How will this work with items that stack to 10, like low-density structures?

Lol, I was just typing the same question.

[mmmPI]

Is it just me or does the second to last animation have two states? It seems to move half the time and stay still half the time.

No, you are correct. You need at least 3 distinct frames in a loop to form a sense of motion. This one moves all the items 50% of their width (including the negative padding) per frame, so everything repeats every second frame.

It would need either to INCREASE the padding or DECREASE the speed for the visual to keep working.

That's why i'm curious to see how the "color randomization" looks in game, because i suppose the mp4 has less color than in game, and i suppose the "color randomization" is a very tiny offset in either HUE or brightness to each items, enabling the brain to inconsciously track the individual item, instead of risking to fall into the optical illusion of seeing them going backward or forward, to me it works on the mp4, it's "clear" which way are going the item.

[Philip017]

the flickering in this shot of the belts may make a few people with some medical conditions ill

https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/blog-sy ... ulk-06.mp4

this being the final post of the belts moving at 60 items/sec

i have used mods previously to make the express belts run at 60 items/sec and not been bothered at all by the appearance, however this one did.

[Ext3h]

Is it just me or does the second to last animation have two states? It seems to move half the time and stay still half the time.

No, you are correct. You need at least 3 distinct frames in a loop to form a sense of motion. This one moves all the items 50% of their width (including the negative padding) per frame, so everything repeats every second frame.

It would need either to INCREASE the padding or DECREASE the speed for the visual to keep working.

That's why i'm curious to see how the "color randomization" looks in game, because i suppose the mp4 has less color than in game, and i suppose the "color randomization" is a very tiny offset in either HUE or brightness to each items, enabling the brain to inconsciously track the individual item, instead of risking to fall into the optical illusion of seeing them going backward or forward, to me it works on the mp4, it's "clear" which way are going the item.

Only works when zoomed out. Because it's not just enough to make the item "traceable", you also MUST remove the high frequency feature of the item in motion by explicitly blurring it in the direction of movement for this to work. You have to blur it to about twice its size in the direction of movement.

[gorbag]

Wait a second: what about inertia? Flinging stacks around hairpin corners should cause topples.

[GregoriusT]

I just remembered a previous FFF about Underground Belts not being distinguishable in blueprints, and this new olive color of the highest Tier Belts is insanely close to the yellow of first Tier Belts to the point that even with normal 100% color vision it can be difficult to distinguish those two colors at times. I highly suggest choosing a color that is sufficiently different from the Yellow, Red and Blue that already exist. Sadly the little bit ugly "Uranium Green" and "Cheaty Purple" that most Mods use for highest Tier Belts already, are some of the very few colors that are different enough to be distinguishable in this context.

On the subject of color randomization on displays, I personally have my display as dark as possible to not strain my eyes, so certain things like weird movement are showing very bad ripple effects, worse than lack of vsync, like that last video did somehow.

[Kadet123]

I like the bulk inserter addition. But the new belt tier seems redundant to me, since the bulk inserter tech already increases belt capacity 4x, whereas the belt tier improvement is a 1.33x increase. Sure, we could have both, but it seems like two hands trying to scratch the same itch.

I especially like that long inserters can do filtering now too, and all of them can.

To help colorblind people, maybe consider giving different feet (or hands) to different tiers of inserters. Burners, yellows, and reds can have the traditional 3-foot/tripod base. Stack inserters can have a 4-foot base in a + pattern, bulk inserters can have a 4-foot base in a x pattern.

On the bulk inserter, what happens with items whose stack size is less than the bulk inserter hand size? For example, low density structures. I assume the bulk inserters will only pick up a stack (10 items) instead of a full hand (16 items). If that's true, when it drops them on a belt (which caps at 4 items per stack), I assume its going to put items on the belt in a 4-4-2 pattern (leaving incomplete stacks). I'm fine with that, just curious. Or does it still pick up a full hand size of 16, and place them in 4-4-4-4 on the belt?

How will this work with items that stack to 10, like low-density structures?

Thinking about this more, I assume setting the bulk inserter's hand size to 8 instead of 16 would prevent incomplete stacks from getting on the belt, it would make 2 4-item stacks.

[zhonbi]

This FFF sure is quite stacked

Not quite sure how I feel about the change, but I'm sure I'll grow accustomed to it. Seeing different stack sizes on a belt looks bizarre, but that shouldn't happen often, only when they're being consumed by inputs. I think the mock-up graphic had me worried, but that isn't the final display.

On the bright side, our belt throughput has gone through the roof now, 60 items * 4 stack-size = 240 items/s per belt. I imagine most of the player-base won't even fully utilize a single one of these, let alone multi lanes for a mega-base.
Also appreciated that you removed the filter inserters (from 2.0). I have maybe used a handful of purple inserters in my entire 2k hour career. If the change goes well, I can image you removing them in vanilla as well, and leaving the Bulk inserters as 2.0 content.

If I had one criticism, the green underground belts doesn't look great. It looks...sickly? Not a flattering color, and it's hard to differentiate it from yellow undergrounds. Pale green & yellow are very close on the light spectrum. Making it a deeper green might be a good change.

[Panzerknacker]

Cool stuff tbh, BUT. Why was it really needed to remove filter inserters? Because tbh, I don't like every simple inserter to have the filtering capability (and included GUI complexity) from the beginning, this could be overwhelming for new players (feature creep). Also, I always thought good factory designs tried to avoid the need for filter inserters, it always felt a bit as a 'hack' to me. Having this ability now default on every simple inserter kinda feels like trivalizing stuff like design of belt network and splitter filters.

Maybe at least lock the filtering capability behind a expensive research which is then also a pre-req for the Bulk inserter.

[gangan]

Would it be possible to add an option to deactivate the visual movement of belts? Just of the belt itself, might look wired as the items would glide on a "standing" belt, but I already have trouble getting motion sickness when building large belt systems. Now looking at the stacked belts and the new tier of belts gets me worried
(Oh, same concept but different entity, please add an option to stop the flashing of "no power" indicators, e.g. make them constant or just hide them.^^)

[Shuisman]

I feel weird that we now have 3 concept of 'stacks':

• Stack inserter

• Stack size

• Stacks on belts

Maybe rethink some of this naming. I guess for veterans there is no issue, but for new players this must be utterly confusing…

[laethos]

I'm enjoying the new vertical scaling options and updates in this FF.

It bothers me that items have no problem staying on the fastest belt. What if the new belt was too fast for inserters to interact with, necessitating loaders instead? Then you could have a covered beltway with guides around turns. That could improve the look and feel and provide an interesting logistics challenge by being limited to loaders. Splitters + loaders would become essential for directing items into machines or onto the belt.

A separate idea: if the belt's base was encased to protect the high speed rollers and bearings, it would allow for side-displayed arrows. This might improve the look over arrows on the belt surface?

Ok last thought: what about a dual-layer belt with surface rollers that grip and speed up items, while the belt itself moves at a slower pace? I imagine this was already considered. I wonder if it would look cool?

I'm so excited about the new changes! I'm about 3000 hours in and still having fun.

[laethos]

(Oh, same concept but different entity, please add an option to stop the flashing of "no power" indicators, e.g. make them constant or just hide them.^^)

These two mods combine to completely solve the flashing power icon annoyance. They have become essential for me in every play through:

No Power Icons - https://mods.factorio.com/mod/No_Power_Icons
Bottleneck Lite - https://mods.factorio.com/mod/BottleneckLite

The factory looks nicer overall and you can tell at a glance if there is an issue.