We support Ukraine

[tuhe]

My speculation is that they're merely claiming not to be aligned with Russia's goals so that the rest of what they have to say won't be dismissed outright

Yah, an endless stream of whataboutism and justaskingthequestion. I have not read much Russian propaganda first hand, but my understanding is that every media-savvy Russian views themselves as a little version of RT; i.e. as being provocative and full of challenges to a hypocritical west.

This is what I feel is one of the most disingenuous aspects of this thread, namely that defenses of Russia are usually offered in a passive way; as in "Russia claims" and "Russia feels" and "what the west does not understand" and so on. In normal circumstances, people have views they are actually convinced about, and so they can commit to an explanation: "I think Russia bombing Kyiev is proportional and rational because...". I can certainly explain why I don't think Russia should be in Ukraine, or why I now think I was wrong in supporting the Iraq war when I was very young.

I am just not ready to call troll because my ex's family were very hard-core fundamentalist, and I have seen the same sort of behavior in them. My understanding was that even the fully convinced believer needs to deal with a lot of cognitive dissonance; they are exposed to contrary information from time to time they need to put aside, or explanations that they are taught are true one day and then are told are false another day. To adjust to that, it is very convenient to adopt a truth you can subscribe to but which somebody else is ultimately responsible for (in their case, it was their church. In the case of a Russian patriot, I would assume it is an amalgamation of the official story plus some ideas about Russian past and future greatness and innocence).

Update:
On a lighter note, this one has a 'the death of Stalin' feel to it: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 35270.html
Now if you will all excuse me, knowing that Europe is no better than Russia when it comes to free speech, I will now go out and get my ass thrown in jail for SUPPORTING my government

[Vintors]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjy71OspWVg

[Vintors]

Russian media = Russian propaganda
Ukrainian media = Ukrainian propaganda
European media = European propaganda
American Media = American propaganda

[Vintors]

https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/детидонбасса
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swqxYI9DTn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1izbcAtxjQ

[enterisys]

No, I dont want my youtube recommendations to be ruined.

[danbopes]

No, I dont want my youtube recommendations to be ruined.

You know you can open them an in incognito window, right? This wont affect any of your precious youtube recommendations.

[mmmPI]

Russian media = Russian propaganda
Ukrainian media = Ukrainian propaganda
European media = European propaganda
American Media = American propaganda

Brazil media = Brazil propaganda.
South Africa = Soouth Africa propaganda
Japan = Japanese propaganda
Middle-east media = Middle-east propaganda
Asian media = Asian propaganda.
African media = African propagnda.
World media = World propaganda.


if that sounds ridiculous to you it's because it is

arguments

not every country allow only state media ! Also Europe is not a country and there are many different laws for press and opinions based on history there depending on the countries. And even inside 1 country, people do not have all the same opinions and are allowed to express via press.

Like the article i sent you Vintors. I sent you a french article because you posted french links last time just to show you that what you say is ridiculous because even inside France for example there is not only 1 opinion allowed on the "SPECIAL OPERATION" that is being special for 20 days. I also find it weird that you send links to french radio show but cannot understand french article. It gave me the impression that you were just copy pasting things like a bot. So you can educate yourself, there are like the pro-russian in france, and the pro-usa and the pro-china, and the pro-europe, and those who thinks france don't need any of that. And they are allowed to express those views in different medias. So you have the leftist pro-china, the right- pro usa, the right- pro-putin, the leftist anti-usa, the centrist pro-europe and so on. Many different views that are particularly visible as the french are doing their presidential election campaign. ALL of those who advocated having closer ties with Russia and were vocal critics of NATO as it being USA-related are now critics of the war. Actually most people that are anti-USA in france seems to be anti-USA because of the war they starts everywhere, they do not oppose freedom of speech and consumerism mind you.

Read them all, make your opinion but don't fall for the non-sense. : some people say earth is flat, some people say earth is a sphere. truth is somewhere in between. we cannot know any truth it's too complicated.

For anyone that get tempted to believe this kind of bullshit, one has to realize that Russian press is only allowed to support the invasion without calling it invasion.

While the so called "european propaganda" is not the same in Italy, Denmark, Portugal, or Poland. There it is allowed to be an "independant" journalist, that means you are not receveing all your money from a government that started an agression war and that went all-out propaganda to try an legitimize a brutal invasion of the soverign and independant country that is Ukraine.

You do not risk being put 15 years in jail for saying any pro-russian propaganda if you want you can. You could write that you are PRO-WAR on a piece of paper and walk with in it the streets of Europe. Wanna write on a piece of paper that you oppose war in Russia an walk in the streets of Moscow ?

How then can you have correct press there ? people are not allowed to express their feeling against the war if they have some ! They have to do this kind of things :
https://pmnewsnigeria.com/2022/03/15/ru ... v-channel/

What is this place where you are not allowed to call for peace ? I'm not even talking of having a critical point of view in politics or expressing a desire to change the government, just having a sign where you call for PEACE is forbidden. Because the government wants you to believe there are no war it's only special operation. And if there is a war, then there are good reasons. anyway. That's not even coherent and pretty scary because the extend of the lies are so big that it leaves few hopes for the information curtain to ever be lifted again under putin's life for fear of overwhelming critics.

One could read Israeli, Turkish, or Greek media, even in China there are different opinion on the war bein expressed and the war is actually called a war. That would be what Israeli propaganda ? Turkish propaganda ? and Greek propaganda ? maybe euro-chinese-american propaganda ?

Maybe when the Talibans call for peace they are pro-american that's what you say ? https://www.businessinsider.com/taliban ... ?r=US&IR=T
Or is this taliban propaganda trying to look peaceful ? Or Afghani propaganda ? Religious propaganda ? Or maybe it's made easier to realize there that humans beings have opinions as humans, as member of a people, member of a country, follower of a religion, and that those are not the same. ( at least not for everyone even in Russia ).


In the english-speaking propaganda, they say 13 000 people were jailed for their protest anti-war. What is the number in russian propaganda ? 0 or negative 5000 ?
https://www.newsweek.com/russian-police ... es-1685965

Where they violently pacific ?


Remember when we talked about Putin financing far-right-wing-party in Europe while at the same time pointing finger at their rise complaining about europeans leaning to far-right ?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... utin-links

What is the official version in Russia when it comes to justifying financing those ? Can you read about it at all ?

No, I dont want my youtube recommendations to be ruined.

You know you can open them an in incognito window, right? This wont affect any of your precious youtube recommendations.

This or go on rutube, it's only russian propaganda, because youtube is american propaganda like facebook and twitter or instagram, i think people in europe use dailymotion for their propaganda but i'm not sure.

If you want to see 2-3 min clips of video montage as it was done 15 years ago to thrill young complotist

[ after some research i realize europe is many country, for example in france they use francebook, and in germany, germanygle, and also spanishgram, or italytter those are only some langage used that are not english where people can use the american propaganda, but there are no country in europe which langage is english, there was the UK before but they left the EU ]

Edit => That still is being posted here for no apparent reason other than in an attempt to legtimate an escalation in violence that is happening near the wheat planting season where Russia N3 producer tries to invade Ukraine N5 producer.

[Vintors]

if that sounds ridiculous to you it's because it is

I apologize for my English, not my native language.
I was born in the USSR, if anyone present at the forum knows that there was once such a country. I try not to watch the news so as not to get upset.
1. Putin, supported by the people - 77.4%
https://www.interfax.ru/russia/827641
2. If, in my favorite game, there was no news in support of Ukraine, I would not have paid attention to it.
3. Judging by the comments, people do not understand the reasons for the "war" between Russia and Ukraine at all. It will not work to explain to a non-Russian.
4. The government of Ukraine itself says that it has been "fighting" since 2014
years with Russia. Ask the Ukrainians.
5. Since I was born in the USSR, it's funny to me to listen to "this is Russian propaganda." Russia is full of independent media, read them, maybe you will understand something. Unlike the United States and Ukraine, opposition media are closed by law. Don't believe the "Western propaganda".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vzKPYNsB4o
6. Today's time reminds me of the 90s of the collapse of the USSR.
7. I would pay attention to the behavior of England, the USA and Europe. (sanctions, the end of last year, etc.)

And finally, listen carefully to Putin's speeches, I think since the Munich speech of 2007.

I don't approve of War, but if forced... the French and Germans won't let you lie.


It is interesting that the Western media are talking about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDCiU6w7B-g



I'm not a politician about that article. I think the French were just scared.

[Vintors]

https://www.kp.ru/daily/26888.5/3932379/

Zelensky was a comedian before the presidency. Too lazy to search.

[Vintors]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWrNs3ISDyo


However, this is not relevant.

[Vintors]

This year and the following will be difficult for everyone. The world has not recovered from the 2019-2020 year, as the energy crisis began, and politicians, instead of solving these crises, decided to blame all the problems on Russia. The world has changed.

Prayer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1yRLR5Db6o

[enterisys]

https://www.kp.ru/daily/26888.5/3932379/

Zelensky was a comedian before the presidency. Too lazy to search.

And putin is kgb spy. How does that make him good tyrant? Oh wait it does.

[enterisys]

This year and the following will be difficult for everyone. The world has not recovered from the 2019-2020 year, as the energy crisis began, and politicians, instead of solving these crises, decided to blame all the problems on Russia. The world has changed.

Prayer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1yRLR5Db6o

Yup thanks to putin we have another year to recover from. But dont worry democratic economies are good at recovering not sure about USSR.

[enterisys]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWrNs3ISDyo


However, this is not relevant.

Yes not relevant. Its the americans who are passive since Obama. If Bush was in charge this war would be over a week ago.

[Vintors]

Yup thanks to putin we have another year to recover from. But dont worry democratic economies are good at recovering not sure about USSR.

I'm not sure. The current situation is a natural process.

[mmmPI]

I was born in the USSR, if anyone present at the forum knows that there was once such a country. I try not to watch the news so as not to get upset.
1. Putin, supported by the people - 77.4%

2. If, in my favorite game, there was no news in support of Ukraine, I would not have paid attention to it.

Fair enough, you posted french radio show without subtitled, but then do not answer in french. I found it weird because that's the only french journalist mentionned in russian official media despite many of them covering the story and her being pretty inexperienced since in her movie you can see that the representative of the doneskt pro-russian is choosing the witness himself, and asking the question himself in front the journalist who seem just "used". 3 times 15 days in place only at the demand of the local authority that are not allowing other journalists to roam free and ask their own question.

I think that anyone without malicious intent realize what happened to the journalist but maybe as it is in french it's not obvious to you and you justed posted it because you thought it would help.

3. Judging by the comments, people do not understand the reasons for the "war" between Russia and Ukraine at all. It will not work to explain to a non-Russian.

some people do not understand, some people do not want to understand, some people wants to legitimize, some people try to justify , i don't think you are trying to inform, i think you are pushing a point of view which is different.

4. The government of Ukraine itself says that it has been "fighting" since 2014
years with Russia. Ask the Ukrainians.

The government of Ukraine also say they tried to put out corrupt pro-russian leader in 2004, and were repressed before succeding, twice ! then Putin started to threaten to retaliate and armed some region and seized crimea, which some people in ukraine threaten to re-take by force, which leads russia to claim ukraine is a threat, because ukraine in nato could try to attack russia which made the situation more difficult for a president that was elected by 73 % of the ukrainian people where he was the most prefered candidate in the eastern region compared to his opponent, which look like it had a chance to reconciliate the 2 parties. It was also how some of his critics went against him saying he was too pro-russian, or close to russian-backed oligarchs. Which makes me think he was genuinly trying to make things better between the 2 party.

But russia has tons of nuclear missile in Kaliningrad and keep crying about its safety which is a dumb lie. They are the one threatening to blow up Europe , not the opposite. They are the one who have nuclear missile next to other people country. Europeans country do not have nuclear arsenal and rely on USA protection, hence NATO. You must know about Kaliningrad right ? So who is legitimate to complain about threat ?

5. Since I was born in the USSR, it's funny to me to listen to "this is Russian propaganda." Russia is full of independent media, read them, maybe you will understand something. Unlike the United States and Ukraine, opposition media are closed by law. Don't believe the "Western propaganda".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vzKPYNsB4o

There is no link between you claiming to be born in USSR, and the media in russia. Also you said earlier you yourself try to not watch the news to not get upset. And now you tell me to read the independant media in russia. That is contradictory, and is also something i do, reading medias. Hence why i try to explained to you that reading only media "from russia" and "from the west" like it's only 2 block is a view that is propagated only in russian stated-backed media, the narratives is the same wether it's someone that is allowed to repeat like a parrot the government parole without analisys or the government. Then the goverment closes the media that defend views that are against the official view.

AND PEOPLE EVEN IN RUSSIA USES TELEGRAM: Why ? Because it's secure ? WHY ? BECAUSE THE FOUNDER FLEE RUSSIA SO THAT HE COULD CREATE A SERVICE OF MESSAGERY THAT IS NOT UNDER A STATE CONTROL.

Look it up yourself, try to ask in Russia about this guy : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Durov

6. Today's time reminds me of the 90s of the collapse of the USSR.

Not me the curtain that separated the world collapsed in the 90's. It's being erected at the moment.

7. I would pay attention to the behavior of England, the USA and Europe. (sanctions, the end of last year, etc.)
And finally, listen carefully to Putin's speeches, I think since the Munich speech of 2007.
I don't approve of War, but if forced... the French and Germans won't let you lie.

You would if you were reading the news ? you said you are not reading the news to not get upset, yet you seems to have been careful there in following what is very important to understand. But of course without reading the "western propaganda".

I'm not a politician about that article. I think the French were just scared.

That's an english article that says the opposition far-right leader is funded by Russian bank after the leader met with Putin. Her father is a well-known neo-nazi supporter having gotten into trial several time for his speech on that. He founded the political party initally and his daughter succeeded, thanks to the money of the Russian people. Which doesn't seem coherent with the narrative of Russia being the defender of the world against the western nazi .

You say you are not a politician yet you seem to be pretty willing to justify a war for political reason. A war that not only endanger the very people it claim to protect, but also the world food supply chain.

This year and the following will be difficult for everyone. The world has not recovered from the 2019-2020 year, as the energy crisis began, and politicians, instead of solving these crises, decided to blame all the problems on Russia. The world has changed.

This is the argument of anti-russia feeling, which is not true , and ridiculous especially when you look at the example of the french politc scene where a presidential campain is happening and even the candidate funded by russian bank and pro-russia pro-putin think that the aggression of Ukraine constitute an escalation of violence that is source of a strain of wheat supply chain among other thing. Such strain on wheat supply chain DURING THE PLANTING SEASON is a great risk of instability, riots, and war next year when the wheat will be missing. And this is not Ukraine that is to blame.

However, this is not relevant.

Most of what you posted is called "cheap and low content" It's irrelevant in general, not included into any discussion, just spammed repeatedly because you cannot explain rationnaly why you mean with those. It's just "guilt by association" or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

Premise: A is a B
Premise: A is also a C
Conclusion: Therefore, all Bs are Cs

some Ukrainian are 1m90
1m90 is very tall
Therefore all ukrainian are very tall.

Sounds stupid with the size right ? but if you take political party and copy paste it a lot, maybe you will manage to make some people doubt. Thing is you can only convince people that are gullible, then you can do opinion poll to verify for example:

In a country some people agree with the war-advocate some think peace is better. Now you ask them in a separate poll for example if they believe in flat earth, in vaccine, in science, in extra-terrestrial beings, and so on. This way you have some sort of idea of who is more likely to believe what. And then you realize what is a "gullible" person. Then you can measure the effect of the method of copy pasting regularly denial argument, cheap and low. It does have a slight effect of people who are gullible but pretty limited because generaly those person aren't in a position of responsability.

[enterisys]

1. Putin, supported by the people - 77.4%

And 80% believe they should be friends with Ukrainians, and 60% support the war. Hey lets be friends and send tanks.

[mmmPI]

1. Putin, supported by the people - 77.4%

And 80% believe they should be friends with Ukrainians, and 60% support the war. Hey lets be friends and send tanks.

that's why opinion polls company have power, they can provide the correct "fact" to support the narrative of whoever pays for it.

Then it's just a question of framing.

heeerrr i mean no, there is no war it's only special operation remember who you should trust.

[enterisys]

And 80% believe they should be friends with Ukrainians, and 60% support the war. Hey lets be friends and send tanks.

that's why opinion polls company have power, they can provide the correct "fact" to support the narrative of whoever pays for it.

Then it's just a question of framing.

heeerrr i mean no, there is no war it's only special operation remember who you should trust.

I actually believe russian polls just because how brainwashed everyone is.

[Vintors]

I was born in the USSR, if anyone present at the forum knows that there was once such a country. I try not to watch the news so as not to get upset.

English is not my native language, there may be a wrong translation.
I said I'm trying, but it doesn't always work out, advertising was constantly climbing on youtube, to various appeals. Various news items are offered. I am glad that youtube has disabled ads.

About the wars, I do not approve. Like many Russians.

I don't impose my opinion.

In the world of economy with wheels (not an economist, I don't know how this term is called by economists), goods (raw materials) are delivered by various means, and the same goes to the store (factory), you play factorio, with such an economy, everything depends on logistics.

Russia exported a lot of goods.