We support Ukraine

[Djmixxx]

They already jumped to record high in Jan. I wonder who to blame for limiting supply then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAF2ylSLwHs

I read about it, they reduced supplies so as not to drop natural gas prices after the cold winter of 2020, when natural gas from Asia would return to Europe.

One more time, nothing personal, only bizness. Which we all pay.

Now the price has skyrocketed because everyone is afraid that Ukraine will blow up the gas pipeline from Russia or the US will ban all natural gas supplies from Russia.

[aaleo]

There are some people here flooding this thread with dozens of comment, trying to justify Russia's ongoing crimes... Can we have a banner on their posts to show that they are "repetitive poster" so we can safely ignore them... They are disgusting. Hope this is addressed by next FFF.

Thanks Wube for defending Humanity and not letting anyone buying your voice/company.

'Star of David' forced to sew on clothes?

[mmmPI]

In my mind same as when you have many different newspapers, you don't have to read all of them to have a diversity of opinion or learn about facts.

Something is wrong. You say that you do not want to choose a newspaper from the same ones.

In fact, you don't want to read newspapers where the news is not what you want to see it. And you will choose those newspapers where everyone writes your truths.

I understand you, for some, freedom is too difficult.

You misunderstand me and/or are imputing wrong motives to me in order to draw a conclusion that has no relation to the topic.

Freedom is the ability to read RT, and sputnik for example, but maybe one day you read only RT because you know sputnik is the same narrative and point of view. This way you save time. And when you want to read US journal, you don't need to read every billionaire's journal either. You can read a few from "the right" and a few from "the left" for example. You do not need to read all the press, for example celebrity press is generaly regarder as not very high quality. In this case one doesn't need to read the celebrity press to get informed. It's part of "the news" though it is of very low interest most of the time, or very similar in all of those magazines as soon as there is a little something that happens. Therefore when you realise people always are using the same element of narrative. You don't need to read the same things 20 times, 2 or 3 would be enough to get a general idea.
Same as the celebrity press is available it's not censored or forbidden by 15 years of jail, but you can decide to not to read it you won't miss much. Ignoring some person that have no arguments or that are dishonnest is a good way to deal with them. Another way would be to use the opportunity to illustrate what is a dishonnest mechanism of argumentation. That can help other people make their own opinion.

freedom is the right to choose, choosing who you trust, like for sex, freedom is choosing who, not being forced to accept everyone !

[mmmPI]

There are some people here flooding this thread with dozens of comment, trying to justify Russia's ongoing crimes... Can we have a banner on their posts to show that they are "repetitive poster" so we can safely ignore them... They are disgusting. Hope this is addressed by next FFF.

Thanks Wube for defending Humanity and not letting anyone buying your voice/company.

'Star of David' forced to sew on clothes?

no that would be anti-semitic, just a "Z" would be enough, but that would then be difficult to know who is supposed to add the "Z" it's be easier if people paint it themselves

[FuryoftheStars]

Your post reads like someone pointing a finger and going "well, they did it!" as justification for their own or someone else's actions (and not very well done, I might add).

Twitter, Facebook have censored Trump 65 times compared to zero for Biden, study says

This is an example of some corporations censoring individuals, not the government censoring the media and citizens and punishing them with imprisonment.

Media Propaganda and Spectacle in the War on Iraq: a Critique of U.S. Broadcasting Networks

I opposed the US invading Iraq, too. I remember Bush touting "WMDs... WMDs...", and I remember the media reporting that no one was actually finding WMDs after they went in. Is that media propaganda?

List of armed conflicts involving the United States

Not sure what your point here is. There's a whole list for Russia, too.

And this is the main reason why Serbia supports Russia. Just because one big country thinks it's the world's police organization. And remind me what sanctions were imposed on the United States?

Yes, one of the... 5, was it?... countries that supported Russia, compared to the 130 some odd that don't. And I've never supported the US acting as the world's police organization, either. So remind me what your point is again? Oh, right....
"But, but, they did it!!!"

And if you think, what to put NATO bases and nuclear missiles on Ukrain in the future is normal.

Right, and what countries have nukes again to provide a basis for this claim that NATO was going to put Nukes into Ukraine?

Read what happened when this situation happened to the USA itself.

What changed now for reason of Russian invasion?

Ah, yes, where Russia was moving a military presence closer to the US, so they dealt with it by militarily invading Cuba?... oh, wait, no, they didn't. They merely blockaded the Russian transports.

[FuryoftheStars]

I feel like this is an old and tired argument that’s been covered multiple times in this thread.

Get up to speed.

It is strange logic, when you think what killing civilians in LNR and DNR is not argument, but killing civilians in rest of Ukraina is argument. All lives are argument. You can not see in the world only what is convenient. A lot of sheat happens in the world.

Never said that. Learn comprehension.

[Djmixxx]

A piece of Russian propaganda.
For comparison, you can read the truth of the Ukrainian side in the Western press.
This is third day, when russian try to clean cities from civilians . The soldiers of Ukraine understand that if this happens, they will not live more than a day under Russian artillery. So they hide behind the backs of civilians.
The Ukrainian side writes that this is Russia's fault. Well, yes, because Russia needs it so much.

I am not engaged in the justification of Russia. The war has already happened and nothing can be done about it. But now all side come out of the war with honor.

"
Then, as of 13:00, the Ukrainian side has not fulfilled a single condition for the creation of humanitarian corridors.

Under the threat of physical violence, the nationalists do not release civilians and foreign citizens through humanitarian corridors.

Ukrainian nationalists did not stop their artillery and mortar fire even for a second during the ceasefire.

The Ukrainian leadership has completely lost control over the state of affairs in the country and is under the harsh influence of radicals.
/Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation/
"

[enterisys]

I read about it, they reduced supplies so as not to drop natural gas prices after the cold winter of 2020, when natural gas from Asia would return to Europe.

Watch video again.

Now the price has skyrocketed because everyone is afraid that Ukraine will blow up the gas pipeline from Russia or the US will ban all natural gas supplies from Russia.

Im sure EU can count their money. Expensive gas=invest into renewvables/ship form other sources. And btw its russians who is bombing to UA

[enterisys]

A piece of Russian propaganda.
For comparison, you can read the truth of the Ukrainian side in the Western press.
This is third day, when russian try to clean cities from civilians . The soldiers of Ukraine understand that if this happens, they will not live more than a day under Russian artillery. So they hide behind the backs of civilians.
The Ukrainian side writes that this is Russia's fault. Well, yes, because Russia needs it so much.

I am not engaged in the justification of Russia. The war has already happened and nothing can be done about it. But now all side come out of the war with honor.

"
Then, as of 13:00, the Ukrainian side has not fulfilled a single condition for the creation of humanitarian corridors.

Under the threat of physical violence, the nationalists do not release civilians and foreign citizens through humanitarian corridors.

Ukrainian nationalists did not stop their artillery and mortar fire even for a second during the ceasefire.

The Ukrainian leadership has completely lost control over the state of affairs in the country and is under the harsh influence of radicals.
/Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation/
"

Wow ministry of invasion of russia, surely a credible source for the subject

[Tertius]

And you will choose those newspapers where everyone writes your truths.

There are fundamental differences in how people from "the west" perceive newspapers (and news in general) and how people from "the east" perceive them. In "the west", the press is free and independent by law. The press isn't controlled by a (mysterious) 3rd party. It's allowed (and encouraged) to print whatever it wants, regardless of what the government or warlord wants. This does not mean every press is serious and accurate - it's just allowed to write what it wants. And this actually happens: you get a large amount of good information, and a large amount of junk as well. You have to read multiple different sources to get to the bottom of it. It has been proven in the last 70 years that the press is really independent, because every time politicians tried to suppress information or putting pressure upon the press, courts were involved, the politicians lost their case, and the most important thing: the politicians accepted that ruling. You can find these rulings. You are able to study journalism and learn about the rights you can enforce against the government.

People from "the east", from the former Soviet Union area, often don't perceive the press as such. They never saw an independent press in their countries. Instead, they saw a censored and regulated press all their life, telling only the story the government wants to see. They assume every press in the world is manipulated like this. If they see independent sources, they assume it's actually not independent, because they learnt every press they get their hands on is manipulated and controlled by the powers that be. That every press is controlled an manipulated. They don't know the concept of an independent press that just tries to give reports of what is.

Open your eyes and realize that there is actually free and accurate information. Information is not true just because some regime in charge writes it. It's only true if it corresponds to reality and not to fiction or wishes.

In a war, it's especially difficult to tell the truth from the lies. There are independent researchers all over the world, a large uncontrolled crowd of individuals, groups and non government organizations that research the truth behind reports. Use the internet, use their research instead of just trusting official government press information. Use multiple, different sources of information. Find information verified and trusted by independent parties, don't trust information that comes from only one source. It's easy and comfortable to just trust what you are given, but be aware that this is only a tiny bubble, often manipulated in a way you don't see, and essential parts left out, so the meaning is reversed to what it is in reality.

[Djmixxx]

I agree with you that there is a free press. But it is not main world press. Only small and local. If you know any big free press, please send me link. And you are mistaken that there is no free press in Russia (now of course it is all blocked, as Trump was blocker after election of Biden in USA ). Do you know russian?

[Djmixxx]

Wow ministry of invasion of russia, surely a credible source for the subject

I don't care who writes, the main thing is that they write to fit into the logic. Without civilians in the cities, the Ukrainian army will die from artillery. Which is now almost never used by the Russians, who are so fond of killing civilians.

[Djmixxx]

And why am I writing this. EU country's want to include Ukraine in NATO, which means that the Ukrainian army will protect my country and yours.
But if she does this, standing behind my back, I don't want such a country with army to be taken into NATO.

If you are solder, go to field and die like the men, not like crying woman behinds their children's.
I am not a solder.

[tuhe]

@DJmixxx: Do you believe there is currently a war in Ukraine? Do you believe that Russia has invaded Ukraine?

Can you state these basic facts in a 'free' Russian newspaper?

Are Russians free to peacefully protest against the war without fear of repercussions?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/04/worl ... kdown.html

[enterisys]

I don't care who writes, the main thing is that they write to fit into the logic. Without civilians in the cities, the Ukrainian army will die from artillery. Which is now almost never used by the Russians, who are so fond of killing civilians.

Never seen so much bullshit. Look at Donbass border. 0 advance from your great army kekw

[FuryoftheStars]

Wow ministry of invasion of russia, surely a credible source for the subject

I don't care who writes, the main thing is that they write to fit into the logic. Without civilians in the cities, the Ukrainian army will die from artillery. Which is now almost never used by the Russians, who are so fond of killing civilians.

How about that some of these civilians simply don't want to leave?
Or are afraid of coming out of the bunkers in an effort to escape when the shelling doesn't stop? (Despite agreeing to a cease-fire to allow civilians to escape, for at least 2 days in a row the Russians have broken that cease fire... with artillery.)
Or how about that the "escape corridors" the Russians are leaving open mostly lead to Russia or their allies?
Or that some are too old, sick, frail, or injured and unable to be evacuated, and some people volunteered to stay behind to take care of them?

Those all seem like logical reasons, too.

[tuhe]

Wow ministry of invasion of russia, surely a credible source for the subject

I don't care who writes, the main thing is that they write to fit into the logic. Without civilians in the cities, the Ukrainian army will die from artillery. Which is now almost never used by the Russians, who are so fond of killing civilians.

Next week's episode in 'Russia can do nothing wrong': Certainly, Russians are heroically shelling and bombing the cities to dust, but it is really all the fault of Ukraine for defending their own country against invaders. If Ukrainians did not want to get blown up by our bombs, why did they choose to live in cities anyway? Now if you will excuse me, I need to report to the re-education camp for calling it a war, but this is really a sign of how much the Russian government loves truth and free speech, that they spend so much effort on informing their citizens.

[Djmixxx]

@DJmixxx: Do you believe there is currently a war in Ukraine? Do you believe that Russia has invaded Ukraine?

I will surprise you, there is no war in Ukraine. If you don't believe me, please find the message about the declaration of war.
And this is the problem of Ukraine, in order received normal help , she must declare war on Russia, but then Ukraine will be the aggressor.

[FuryoftheStars]

And why am I writing this. EU country's want to include Ukraine in NATO, which means that the Ukrainian army will protect my country and yours.
But if she does this, standing behind my back, I don't want such a country with army to be taken into NATO.

If you are solder, go to field and die like the men, not like crying woman behinds their children's.
I am not a solder.

So that's a valid reason to support the invasion? Even if it were true that the Ukrainian soldiers are hiding behind their civilians, your logic is even sicker.

[FuryoftheStars]

@DJmixxx: Do you believe there is currently a war in Ukraine? Do you believe that Russia has invaded Ukraine?

I will surprise you, there is no war in Ukraine. If you don't believe me, please find the message about the declaration of war.
And this is the problem of Ukraine, in order received normal help , she must declare war on Russia, but then Ukraine will be the aggressor.

Ah, yes, because it actually takes someone to say "I'm at war with you" for a full on military incursion and people dying all over the place to actually be considered a "war".

I call BS.