if you do with belt measuring you have it in less than 60 sec, if you do it manually 200 second is the minimum due to fuel burning in 200 sec and already very annoying.mrvn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:49 pmThe point of measuring every 60 seconds would be to get the response time down to 60 seconds. Obviously if you just inserted a fuel cell then for the next 200 seconds there is nothing you can do. But at 240 seconds you measure, at 300 seconds you measure, at 360 seconds you measure and each time you decide if sometime in the next 60 seconds you should insert a fuel cell. That would greatly reduce the amount of buffering you need. The choice of 60s was so that it is clearly always below the length of a fuel cycle. You could do 300s intervals. That would still often have the timer > 300s and show how you deal with intervals where no fuel cell is inserted and consumption carries over into the next interval.
The minimum buffer is for 200 second anyway you can't reduce past this amount in any design due to the functionning of the reactor so it's not true saying shorter interval would reduce the amount of buffer needed past 200 second.
you wrongly assume it is impossible to use indirect equivalent of measurement for energy. You measure how many item on belt for a sef-adjusting timer. you do what you want with steam tanks if it's your liking.mrvn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:49 pmThe steam is the only palce in the power plant we can measure. So naturally I assumed you would measure steam. As you say you can't measure heat. And if the plant is to automatically adjust to changes in power demands then you have to measure something. So either steam level or steam flow.
Note: you can measure steam flow with 2 tanks, 4 pumps and a steam turbine. So no big huge steam tank buffer needed. I assumed you would be doing that and the suggestion to count science packs on a belt more of a joke. Counting belts will break when they backlog.
Counting belt doesn't break when they backlog. 1 pulse per item. You don't have to clog the area you don't want to clog with item just read the backlog happens and have it localized on an area if you can't think of making a counter that doesn't break when backlog.
[quote=mrvn post_id=554600 time=1634662185 user_id=2816
You say you want to use heat as storage medium. How do you buffer 5 or 20 hours worth of heat? Every heat pipe you add between reactor and heat exchanger lowers the temp by 1°C and reduces your thermal range for the buffer. So there is a maximum of heat you can store. I wonder if 5 hours is even possible. Pretty sure 20 hours isn't. Just wondering.
i say i did use heat as storage medium not i wanted to do it, i actually had working implementation that served me well a full game.
20 hours is made up number to illustrate purpose or you really plan to have a power plant that you update every 20 hours ? you who complained about the system not being responsive.
20 cycle of fuel is 1 hour. which is already huge ! not 20 hours.
look the picture i posted, the ratio of heatpipes in the footprint, there lots of room in the middle to add heatpipes. that's only 3 cycle of fuel, double it and you have 6. which gives you 20 minutes. that's already decent. If you want to make it work you can, if you want to complain it's impossible to have a reponsive system that you also want to update only every 20 hours the problem is not the design the problem is that you cannot make up your mind and are looking any means to confort your negative biais toward somthing.
no it's ok i played with one for like 250 hours in practice without problems.mrvn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:49 pm
Oh you definetly can't ignore even the 0.000002°C. Over time every little error adds up. If you don't have any steam tanks to measure the reactor actually still has stored heat then you will eventually drift into a brownout. And then your math shows you are using exactly as much energy as you put fuel in and will never increase the fuel input. Worse, every little error will further reduce your fuel input till you have a total blackout. A 0.000002°C drift sounds ridiculous and the sun will burn out before the reactor fails. But a) we are talking theoretical here and b) it will not just be 0.000002°C.
no i told you already i used accumulator that ring when under 99% to tell me if ever the drift was leaving the heatpipe buffer enable to sustain consumption.mrvn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:49 pmSo I'm afraid you need to cheat and have some steam tank somwhere. Even if it is just one for the whole reactor. You need an "Oh shit, my reactor is cold" check in there somwhere to reset your calculated heat level. And I can't think of a "Oh shit, my reactor is overheating" check. If you ever overestimate the consumed power then that error will add up to till your reactor always runs at maximum temp and every overestimation gets lost.
I made sure it was drifting toward the bottom by never rounding up in order to make sure there was no risk of leaving the range by the other extreme and to make sure i had the alarm.
(other alarm was for fuel cell storage i explained that already).
no you don't have to round things up, if you have a consumption that is somewhat predictable you can leave the timer runnning for several cycle of update without changing anything. this mean you can use fuel timer longer than update time, if you use your brain.mrvn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:49 pmSo you would practically have to always round energy consumption down and fuel a bit less so you only have to deal with the "Oh shit, my reactor is cold" case. At which point I say: Why bother? Just the "Oh shit, my reactor is cold" check on it's own will drive the reactor because that is the steam buffer design.
also you don't do anything obviously when it's reading on a belt.
cheating is using a tank or steam, if you use heatpipes and read on belt to make up for the fact you can't read on heat pipes it's not cheating it's passing the challenge.mrvn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:49 pmBut that's just another way of cheating then. Measuring belt throughput or steam throughput, same thing in the end. Steam is just more accurate because it directly goes into power production. Counting science packs has to much variance. With the way assemblers start and stop because the ratios aren't perfect or inserters sometimes pick up one item and sometimes 2 or have to chase items on the belt more or less I highly doubt you can give an answer to how much power a science pack really needs. A value that won't cause your calculations to drift too far from reality. And without any steam tank to reset your math any drift means death, eventually.
i already said you can read how many science pack you produced last hour, how much energy was consumed, and then divide. Youhou magic ! you have just measured your energy efficiency for producing science pack.
your doubts are unfonded, you should have read more carefully and maybe take more time to think ?
also drift i explained how to easily reset it.
man that's terrible if you can't count how many shot they fire how do you know your power plant will not have a black out ? i'm baffled to realize that laser turret unlike any other thing defy the law of mathematic and you cannot average their consumption over the last 10 minutes or 1hour while seeing the graph to give you an idea of the representativity of your number. That's just so impossible to do that instead i advise you again for the 3rd time to put them on a separate grid powered by separate plant, to which you already answered like twice " meehh but in multiplayer it can happen that thing connect" . Yes i already told you it's you opinion, if you didn't changed it since the last 3 time you told me you should keep it and not use the design in multiplayer for your laser turret.
lol, and you wish i make it look like a heart with the heatpipes with your name on it?mrvn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:49 pmCan you provide an actual savegame of a reactor that computes the power consumption and self adjust to the power consumed? Because I just can't believe it will work past 100 or 1000 times the size of the heat buffer without any way to self correct by means of a steam tank.