Suggestion: Show Power Ranges When Placing Chests

[MisterDoctor]

TL;DR

Show the blue power availability "radii" when placing chests. I guess it is normally only shown for objects that require power.

What ?

Almost all of the time, you need to place an inserter in order to fill a chest (I think the only exception is receiver chests?). Inserters require electricity, so there are only certain places that make sense to place a chest. But you can't see those places when placing a chest, because the power overlay is not shown, probably because the chest itself does not require power.

The way it is now, I constantly experience this process:
- start placing a chest
- "guess" where there is available power
- often, I'm off-by-one (or even more), and the place that now requires an inserter is unpowered
- place an unpowered inserter
- place a second technically unnecessary power pole to power the inserter that could have been powered if it was in a different place
- alternatively, try to memorize the power layout, and then pickup the chest and try again
- alternatively, place the inserter first, which will result in one or more items from the belt ending up in your inventory

Instead, it would be nice if I could do this:
- start placing a chest
- determine a suitable place for the chest based on where an associated inserter will have power, and other factors
- place the chest, and then place an inserter that is immediately powered with a place to receive the items it grabs

[boskid]

This is your specific use case issue and i do not see it ever being implemented. Supply around power poles will only show for entities that use electricity. When you hover inserter then supply ranges will be highlighed and you know where power is. When you see given spot has no power, you will simply have to place extra power poles or remove existing ones to shift them. Moving power poles is normal to happen and there is no reason to show supply areas while chest is in hand. Implementing that would also give some confusion since... supply area would be highlighted when holding chest, telling to the player "this entity needs power" while it does not.

[MisterDoctor]

How about a hotkey to show supply ranges? The core problem is: the power ranges are relevant to the placement of a chest, but are inaccessible unless specifically placing a powered item.

and other things like belts, too. I just placed a line of belts going to a train, but I couldn't see the power range, so I was off by one when choosing which tile column to put the belts on, so I either needed another pole, or to remove and re-place the belts.

basically, there is information that is relevant to the context of placing unpowered items, but it is unavailable leading to otherwise avoidable placement errors.

[valneq]

As you said: the main reason why power is important is the inserter. If you place the inserter before placing the chest, the problem would be essentially gone.

[MisterDoctor]

As you said: the main reason why power is important is the inserter. If you place the inserter before placing the chest, the problem would be essentially gone.

makes no sense that I should have to remember to do that; it's a workaround at best. also, if you place a powered inserter first, then the inserter will pick up an item off the belt, which will then end up in your inventory when you place the chest on top of it. there are also other cases like building a line of belts towards something that are not so convenient to just switch to the inserter first.

the chest and inserter case is just one example. basically, the core problem is that the power ranges are relevant even to unpowered items, since the placement of unpowered items is associated with the placement of powered items. really. there just needs to be some way of seeing the power ranges besides just when placing a powered item. holding shift or something should show it.

[ssilk]

makes no sense that I should have to remember to do that; it's a workaround at best.

That sentence explains the rest of your argumentation. But the truth is: if the inserter is out of reach of power, then I just place another pole. It makes no sense to place items depending on power range. Ok, there are some situations where it makes sense, but then you need to hover over a pole to see ranges and then place entities accordingly. Your short time memory does this job for you.

And after some hours you know instinctively where the ranges are.

[MisterDoctor]

That sentence explains the rest of your argumentation.

no it doesn't. this does though:

the core problem is that the power ranges are relevant even to unpowered items, since the placement of unpowered items is associated with the placement of powered items.

essentially, information that is present in the game and relevant to the context of placing unpowered items is unavailable while doing so. this is a (arguably minor) UI flaw.

the question of whether it's important enough to fix is not something I can argue for. if "a workaround exists" or "it's not that big a deal" are good enough reasons not to fix it, then I can't do anything about that.

[Koub]

tbh, it never crossed my mind to place power poles first, and stuff around them next. I always build whatever I need, and add power poles accordingly, to power whatever needs electricity. I can't wrap my head to figure myself doing this the other way round, except while laying long distance power lines. But in that case again, I build what I have to build, and sow power poles everywhere needed.

[ssilk]

the core problem is that the power ranges are relevant even to unpowered items, since the placement of unpowered items is associated with the placement of powered items.

essentially, information that is present in the game and relevant to the context of placing unpowered items is unavailable while doing so. this is a (arguably minor) UI flaw.

the question of whether it's important enough to fix is not something I can argue for. if "a workaround exists" or "it's not that big a deal" are good enough reasons not to fix it, then I can't do anything about that.

I think it’s not useful/possible to change it. Important is the wrong category here.

I try to explain in detail (hoped the hints in other post gave you an idea):
- The game value is super low because it removes a kind of mini-puzzling sub-game. The amount of work to implement it is low, but
- you just cannot do that so easy, there are literally millions of players, that would not like this,
- because the added layer will not make any sense for walls or belts (and many other entities, think to trains, car, tank, think about gun turret, burner mining drill, stone furnace, think to mods that extend the non-electric phase) in most cases so you need to add strange rules under which circumstances you need eventually to show the range or not (because I think boskid moved it into not implement).
- It was never broken or even a flaw, so it doesn’t need to be fixed and you are the first in 7.5 years, who is frustrated by that. I’m really sorry.
- There are these three workarounds: either you remember the ranges in short term memory or you build the electric device first (also kind of short term memory) or you just build another pole afterwards.

[MisterDoctor]

- The game value is super low because it removes a kind of mini-puzzling sub-game.

if you mean people would be unhappy because they want to be confused by this, I think I'd disagree (or at least be surprised), but I would understand that as a valid reason.

- because the added layer will not make any sense for walls or belts (and many other entities, think to trains, car, tank, think about gun turret, burner mining drill, stone furnace, think to mods that extend the non-electric phase) in most cases so you need to add strange rules under which circumstances you need eventually to show the range or not (because I think boskid moved it into not implement).

I initially suggested showing the ranges while placing specifically chests, but it doesn't have to be that specific. an optional hotkey that shows the ranges would work. (I imagined discussing the concept rather than having to write the ultimate perfect post about it in one shot; maybe that was the wrong approach.)

It was never broken or even a flaw, so it doesn’t need to be fixed and you are the first in 7.5 years, who is frustrated by that. I’m really sorry.

I see it as an objective flaw because information the game provides is nevertheless unavailable in a context in which it is useful, leading to misplaced items. this is a clear UX flaw.

- There are these three workarounds: either you remember the ranges in short term memory or you build the electric device first (also kind of short term memory) or you just build another pole afterwards.

none of these really solve the problem. just the fact that you would say "remember the ranges in short term memory" is an indication of a user interface/experience flaw. this is a computer game (software) after all. I believe many people don't notice this issue and just live with it subconsciously. I only really started noticing it after 1000+ hours of play, but I've noticed now that this is something that keeps happening that I can't quite correct, due to the information being hidden.

[ssilk]

Remembering the range is a legal alternative way, because you have two more methods.