Temporary Stations = Manual train mode

[Squelch]

or I step out and the train sneaks away from me after leaving money on the nightstand without saying "I love you" and refuses to accept my calls or texts the following weekend like it was a damned Tinder date gone bad.

Lucy?

Seriously, the addition of temporary stops is welcome, but the default wait condition is a pain for all of the reasons you list. A player settable default would be an excellent improvement.

[Freddie Chopin]

Same here. In 100% of possible cases I have to either delete this wait condition or change it to something else or just switch the train to manual when I arrive. Never ever did I found the default to be appropriate.

[Olacken]

Yes but it's still better than nothing and in most case at least for me good enough( meaning than I can change it easly if it's not what I wan't)

And it won't break anything if I forget that I pulled a train 20 min ago in a far oupost that just hapen to be able to block one of my iron outpost and create a big jam that halt my production for 1h (Note that being able to change the default setting wouldn't help unless you change it to passenger not present but it unpractical in most case)

And all other setting would either be able to produce a jam or result in the train quitting instantly upon arriving (well apart from inactivity but that doesn't really make a diference)

[Freddie Chopin]

Yes but it's still better than nothing and in most case at least for me good enough( meaning than I can change it easly if it's not what I wan't)

How is it better than nothing? With "nothing" instead of changing current condition I could simply just add one - less clicking, less time.

[Olacken]

In the case where you go 2 m forward it would go forward and instantly remove the waypoint also i'm almost certain it was the default behavior before and people complaind about it so it was changed

[Freddie Chopin]

If I would like to go 2 meters forward I would just press "W" and then "S" (;

[Olacken]

I don't wan't to go 2 meter forward I wan't the train to do it I may not be near it

[steinio]

If I use a train previous in manual I would like to see it stop in manuel again and not counting down to depart.

[Olacken]

If I use a train previous in manual I would like to see it stop in manuel again and not counting down to depart.

That's a good sugestion
And could probably be made as it's own thread since it's not exactly the same idea?

[urza99814]

Same here. In 100% of possible cases I have to either delete this wait condition or change it to something else or just switch the train to manual when I arrive. Never ever did I found the default to be appropriate.

I use the default frequently. It's the Factorio version of a paradrop IMO. You drop in, the train runs off to safety, and you take care of business. When you're done, you either recall it from your base or just grab whatever train is passing by to get you back.

I haven't gone around building personal transport stations since they added that feature, but that also means that EVERY time I use the personal transit train it ends up blocking active tracks. So I have a garage station at base, and that's the only stop my personal train has. That does mean that if I'm not paying attention I end up back home... But the alternate is I block the rails and bring my entire base to a halt, so returning home is generally the safer option if I've gone AFK. My most common use case is fixing rails between my artillery outposts, so I'll rush out on my train, let it go away so it doesn't end up in the middle of combat, and once the rails are fixed I hop on the next outpost train which takes me back to base. Or I'll let it drop me off, spend some time building a mine, and when the mine is done it'll call a mining train that I can ride back on.

If I need it to stick around longer I can throw it in manual, but usually I don't, usually I'm only using that train one way. And I finally always know where my freakin train is...

[welens]

Most often my usage of temporary points is moving to far region of map to start new mining site or to expand railway lines.
I click a point on map closer to my destination and wait while my personal train moved where.
When usually I need to manually move the train further, but it doesn't start to be controlled by keys even character still in where.
Train still in automatic mode, even when after several seconds temporary point vanished.

My suggestion - when last temporary point vanished toggle train to manual mode where we can move it by keys.

[MisterFister]

When i don't want the train to leave to the next destination after a temporary stop, i don't give it a next destination

Before my taxi train used to have several PAX station scheduled in memory, so it was fast to select them as destination. But the train sneaking away a few times after temporary stop because of those station made me quit the previous system, now taxi train has nothing in schedule and i only use temporary stop, in the middle of nowhere or in the main PAX station, it's always a temporary stop, untill i manually tell it to go elsewhere.

That's how i organised to avoid the thing happening to me again because yes, it's frustrating

I respect that you replied here with constructive feedback that added to the discussion, and I thank you for NOT making your reply into a snarky one by simply telling me that my usage-scenario is off, or other similarly unhelpful replies that this discussion might have generated the previous times I brought it up in discord / on the subreddit / elsewhere. Thus, I ask that you recognize similarly that my add-on here is not intended to come across as defensive or unhelpful on my own part;

But you might not realize that you hit the nail about as squarely on the head as I could've hoped. Your solution is to frustrate the automation-of-departure by intentionally undoing the automation-of-arrival. I refer you to my OP at the top of this thread -- I have numerous hundreds of uniquely-named individual trainstop locations, all across numerous dozens of individual cityblocks / outposts / areas of interest on my map, whereupon I make it a specific point to design an individually named PAX stop at every location alongside other LTN-enabled loaders and unloaders. (Incidentally, I am in the process of tinkering with a much-larger cityblock design that in all likelihood would end up making it much more beneficial to have 2 or even 3 PAX locations within any given individual cityblock (i.e., "Iron Smelt 4 PAX A", "Heavy to Lube PAX B," etc.)

That means that, first of all, there is almost no difference in ease-of-use between either: A) Manually scrolling within the train-GUI mapview to manually select a new Temp Stop location across a very widely sprawled and developed map, particularly a map intentionally designed around modular cityblock designs where some locations might be initially indistinguishable or identical-seeming from mapview; or B) Scrolling through a very long and well-organized list of PAX stops on a per-trip basis, deleting every station departed. I ask you, respectfully, can you not see how that's a pain in the tuchus? First of all, I often need to periodically re-visit any given location, be that because I needed to resupply / drop off at my mall, or because I was called away by a pressing concern (biters, LTN deliveries timing out due to a single missing tile of rail or a single reversed underneathy, etc.) and once that pressing concern is resolved, I need to be able to go back to what I was doing. Isn't it an almost-meme how with this game it's so easy to forget what you'd been so worried about twenty minutes ago? Why am I being asked (by the game's default behavior, not being asked "of you" with your reply) to forcibly disallow myself from the ability to keep track of where I was by the list of stops in my train itinerary? For that matter, maybe my task is to update the constant-combinator settings of all of a certain sub-type of requester station (particularly when the changes need to be made at cityblock locations that are belt-based and not bot-enabled). Why should I be asked, in a game that is literally about efficiency, to forego the option of pre-determining an entire route of stops, in a certain useful sequence, just because I'm unable to easily control my train's default-behavior?

Your decision, which you have the right to make, has been to forego those conveniences entirely. If your base has a lower actual physical quantity of locations you want to be able to keep track of, that's fine. But...?

Same here. In 100% of possible cases I have to either delete this wait condition or change it to something else or just switch the train to manual when I arrive. Never ever did I found the default to be appropriate.

Oh dear christ, THIS! ^^

Yes but it's still better than nothing and in most case at least for me good enough( meaning than I can change it easly if it's not what I wan't)

And it won't break anything if I forget that I pulled a train 20 min ago in a far oupost that just hapen to be able to block one of my iron outpost and create a big jam that halt my production for 1h (Note that being able to change the default setting wouldn't help unless you change it to passenger not present but it unpractical in most case)

And all other setting would either be able to produce a jam or result in the train quitting instantly upon arriving (well apart from inactivity but that doesn't really make a diference)

I honestly think you might be misconstruing my suggestion. I recognize that just "stop here on the mainline" temp stops is something that, if done frequently enough, will absolutely lead to traffic issues and logjams. Hence.... (read my OP) that's why I have numerous dozens of individually named PAX stops, thereby eliminating any need for me to necessarily want to have a locomotive wait for me while fouling a mainline track segment. No, I want to be able to set a default behavior once (again, maybe once per savefile, or once per locomotive used, I don't care which) so that I can specify a PAX location as my destination, without the additional four or five clicks to then ensure that the train waits for my go-ahead to proceed anywhere else whensoever I might ask the train to proceed elsewhere without me, or to proceed elsewhere with myself aboard.

I'm asking for the ability to set-destination-to-PAX-station with a single click, and the train ALWAYS behaves at each stop the way I want to set its default behavior. Which is 99.3% of the time to "sit here, shut up, and wait for me to hop in the train and manually decide when to depart, so that I can spend a brief time at the location, a long time at the location, a brief time working in my inventory and mapview while seated in a stationary train, or a long time working in my inventory and mapview while seated in a train that is rolling to my next destination and would then wait patiently for me to realize that I've arrived instead of punishing me by departing the location before I realized we'd arrived."

Same here. In 100% of possible cases I have to either delete this wait condition or change it to something else or just switch the train to manual when I arrive. Never ever did I found the default to be appropriate.

I use the default frequently. It's the Factorio version of a paradrop IMO. You drop in, the train runs off to safety, and you take care of business. When you're done, you either recall it from your base or just grab whatever train is passing by to get you back.

I haven't gone around building personal transport stations since they added that feature, but that also means that EVERY time I use the personal transit train it ends up blocking active tracks. So I have a garage station at base, and that's the only stop my personal train has. That does mean that if I'm not paying attention I end up back home... But the alternate is I block the rails and bring my entire base to a halt, so returning home is generally the safer option if I've gone AFK. My most common use case is fixing rails between my artillery outposts, so I'll rush out on my train, let it go away so it doesn't end up in the middle of combat, and once the rails are fixed I hop on the next outpost train which takes me back to base. Or I'll let it drop me off, spend some time building a mine, and when the mine is done it'll call a mining train that I can ride back on.

If I need it to stick around longer I can throw it in manual, but usually I don't, usually I'm only using that train one way. And I finally always know where my freakin train is...

Ok. So you patently refuse, for your own purposes, to design your provider and requester stations (even if you don't use LTN) with PAX stations available.

You can do that. But if you design a single siding of track, with a single trainstop for PAX, then your train would have a place to sit without fouling the mainline. That is not a modification of default-behavior for the trains, that's a modification of your station design habits. Even if you did modify your stations to include PAX stops, this default-behavior of the train to leave-without-you-unless-you-specifically-engage-in-lots-of-manual-clicking inside the train gui, FOR EVERY LOCATION YOU VISIT, EVERY TIME YOU VISIT ANY LOCATION, you'd still be left wondering why the default-behavior of the trains is the way it is.

[sowieso]

Please add this feature on your polish-for-1.0 list.

[Kyralessa]

Maybe the best solution is a compromise. If the train is in manual mode when you control-click to create a temp station, then the train temporarily switches to auto mode, drives to the temp station, then switches back to manual mode. If the train was in auto mode, then it stays in auto mode when it arrives.

Yes, this!

manual -> control-click -> goes to station -> manual (no 5-second pause)

auto -> control-click -> goes to station -> auto (with 5-second pause; maybe configurable in settings)

[ssilk]

I couldn't find a single person who wouldn't prefer that the temporary train station would put train in manual mode once reached!

Developers please change this!

In my eyes as moderator I don’t see that there isn’t “a single person”. There are quite mixed opinions about this topic and many dozens of postings around how the train should behave here.

What can be said instead is, that this leads to a lot of controversy. Because non of the solutions are perfect and only support a special play style.

And a quick fix would be to have some kind of configuration to enable the player to select what a train should do afterwards. And one of that option should be this one.

[Trebor]

I couldn't find a single person who wouldn't prefer that the temporary train station would put train in manual mode once reached!

Developers please change this!

In my eyes as moderator I don’t see that there isn’t “a single person”. There are quite mixed opinions about this topic and many dozens of postings around how the train should behave here.

What can be said instead is, that this leads to a lot of controversy. Because non of the solutions are perfect and only support a special play style.

And a quick fix would be to have some kind of configuration to enable the player to select what a train should do afterwards. And one of that option should be this one.

+1 for adding a configuration option.

[Zavian]

I don't think a new setting is the right solution. I want something that I can control on a train by train / situation by situation basis.

Personally most of the time I'm using my personal construction train, and if I control click a destination, I want the train to stop and wait there. (Plus on my current base, travelling to the borders from the central base takes 2-3 minutes even with rocket fuel, so I often want to send the train there, then go get a drink or some food or take a toilet break whilst travelling). For that use case I'm typically travelling towards the border, which means I don't care about the train blocking the rail line, because there are no other trains using that section of track yet. (If I'm travelling to somewhere closer, I normally have a PAX station already setup, and hence I don't need to use a temporary station).

But occasionally I borrow a nearby train, simply because it is closer and more convenient than waiting for my construction train. In that case I typically want it to resume normal operations once I disembark.

(There is also a third possibility. Where I place a locomotive from my inventory, then send it to a temp stop. But in that case manual vs automatic doesn't matter, since the locomotive has no other stations, so I won't consider it further).

So personally I want to be able to use both options. Having to open the game settings to change that would be annoying. Having a train which starts in manual finish in manual would work, because I can set that just before placing the temp stop. The other option worth considering is adding a separate key combination to order a train to go to the temp stop and switch to manual/wait indefinitely. (Maybe control-shift click?)

[ssilk]

I want something that I can control on a train by train / situation by situation basis.

Nobody hinders you to change the default by hand after ordering. Already working. This is only about configuration of the default action.

[Ansible32]

I would like for all newly created stops to default to "wait forever" until you set a condition. IMO the existing behavior both for temp stops and permanent stops is annoying. It's also annoying that there's no "wait forever" option. Right now I usually use "Passenger present AND Passenger not present" for my passenger trains because I don't want to drive them manually but I also don't want them just continuing on unless I say so.

It would be a breaking change, but honestly I feel like the default behavior where no condition is set causes the train to continue along seems like the wrong behavior anyway - the train should simply stay at the station until a condition is set or the train is tasked to another station.

[FuryoftheStars]

I couldn't find a single person who wouldn't prefer that the temporary train station would put train in manual mode once reached!

Developers please change this!

thanks

I'm one. I don't want it always put in manual mode. What if I hijacked an ore train to get me somewhere cause it was the only one available? I want it to automatically resume.

Maybe the best solution is a compromise. If the train is in manual mode when you control-click to create a temp station, then the train temporarily switches to auto mode, drives to the temp station, then switches back to manual mode. If the train was in auto mode, then it stays in auto mode when it arrives.

Yes. This would be ideal, I think.

IMO the existing behavior both for temp stops and permanent stops is annoying.

Not for me. I'm against your proposed change as well.
For a normal stop, I have no issues if it bypasses the stop while I'm still adding it to the schedule. If it was that quick, it'll be back. I don't need it to wait there right now this instant.
For a temp, if I'm using my personal train, which most likely would be in manual mode to start, I'd want it to switch to manual upon reaching the destination. If I snagged another train, though, I'd want it to automatically leave and resume it's normal routines.