Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

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Yes-Man
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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by Yes-Man » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:50 am

foamy wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:15 pm
Honestly, both NV and BI should be the same size; either 1x1 or 1x2 (as batteries are). I'd like to run both in my late game power armour since it makes messing with belt layouts far less frustrating, but the sad one-tile gap, which can currently only be filled by a panel, really grinds at me.
Eeeeexactly! And the panel, in comparison to your fusion reactor, brings absolutely nothing to the table. Pure insanity!

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by SirSmuggler » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:14 am

5thHorseman wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:54 am
foamy wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:15 pm
the sad one-tile gap, which can currently only be filled by a panel, really grinds at me.
You can also fill it with not filling it with anything. Having an empty spot above it is exactly the same as it being 1x2 in size.
It's even better, having it 1x1 means its flexible, you can leave an empty slot above OR next to it. If it was made 1x2 or 2x1 it would lose that flexibility.

I realy don't understand how it would be better to have it bigger. Unless ofcource anyone think it's overpowererd and needs to take more space to be "balanced", but that doesn't seem to be the case so... :?:

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by jodokus31 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:15 am

Cribbit wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:53 am
I'd love to see a "wheels!" module - 2x2 or exoskele sized - that:

1. Gives belt immunity
2. Increases the player's top speed, but gives them momentum (like a car)
3. Allows the player to run on train tracks for even higher top speed (I'm a train, yo)
to 3) Nice idea. I would also say, that you can't get run over by a train, when on tracks, because otherwise it's a certain death :)

Regarding sizes of the equipment modules. The OCD problem is, that we only have only one 1x1 equipment module, except solar, which doesn't stack. and the mk2 armour is 10x10. Several options come to my mind:
- Add more 1x1 equipment modules, which i believe will be the case in future.
- Make nightvision, belt immunity, ... sized like batteries (1x2). more batteries is always good and you have to think twice, before removing them. Or replace 2 with a 2x2 module.
- Make armours 5x5, 7x7 and 11x11, although i think it would annoy more people, than the current problem :) At least it would reserve that one spot for belt immunity.
(- non serious idea: Make every module a different, rotatable tetris shape :P)

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by 5thHorseman » Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:23 am

While we're on it, I'd love an option to disable belt immunity but only for the direction you're moving. So they don't slow you down or shift you, but will speed you up.
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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:38 pm

Yes-Man wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:50 am
Eeeeexactly! And the panel, in comparison to your fusion reactor, brings absolutely nothing to the table. Pure insanity!
What if you run out of banana peels ?
BlueTemplar wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:11 pm
Yay!

A small detail though : there will be a lot of cringing among the more obsessive-compulsive of us if the Belt Immunity Equipment is only 1x1 !
(the only thing that we are going to be able to put in the remaining spot in the 10x10 Power Armor Mk2 will be a pretty useless Solar Panel!)

I suggest making it 2x1 !
And I already have a sprite in mind for this Belt Immunity Equipment :
New Belt Immunity Equipment Sprite

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by eradicator » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:45 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:38 pm
Yes-Man wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:50 am
Eeeeexactly! And the panel, in comparison to your fusion reactor, brings absolutely nothing to the table. Pure insanity!
What if you run out of banana peels ?
BlueTemplar wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:11 pm
Yay!

A small detail though : there will be a lot of cringing among the more obsessive-compulsive of us if the Belt Immunity Equipment is only 1x1 !
(the only thing that we are going to be able to put in the remaining spot in the 10x10 Power Armor Mk2 will be a pretty useless Solar Panel!)

I suggest making it 2x1 !
And I already have a sprite in mind for this Belt Immunity Equipment :
New Belt Immunity Equipment Sprite
How about coming from the opposite perspective: Just make the grid smaller. I recommend removing the center tile, so that odd grids form a perfect donut. For even grids just cut out the lower right corner or something. :twisted:
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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by foamy » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:08 pm

5thHorseman wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:23 am
While we're on it, I'd love an option to disable belt immunity but only for the direction you're moving. So they don't slow you down or shift you, but will speed you up.
Honestly, I think that's the way it should work by default.

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by Hannu » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:21 pm

If there is some device for belt immunity is there also a command for permanent disabling the belt effect which can be used from beginning?

In my opinion now when we have seen that our skillful devs can really program this "nice" piece of bling bling the annoying effect of belts could be removed. Or at least there should be permanent opt out. It does not have any effect on balance against enemies or time critical tasks. It is just annoying harm. Possibility to speed up walking is very weak advantage against annoyance. And there is a command for speed already for impatient.

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by BlueTemplar » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:16 pm

Yes :

Code: Select all

/c	local player = game.player
player.insert{name="modular-armor", count = 1}
local p_armor = player.get_inventory(5)[1].grid
	p_armor.put({name = "battery-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "belt-immunity-equipment"})
:P

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by Hannu » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:42 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:16 pm
Yes :

Code: Select all

/c	local player = game.player
player.insert{name="modular-armor", count = 1}
local p_armor = player.get_inventory(5)[1].grid
	p_armor.put({name = "battery-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "solar-panel-equipment"})
	p_armor.put({name = "belt-immunity-equipment"})
:P
OK. Thank you. I tried to find a simple setting to change but it seems that I must have an armor with that device.

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by Cribbit » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:12 pm

You can mod it, but in vanilla that's your best bet.

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by netmand » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:16 pm

My criticism about the Belt Immunity module applies the same to the Night Vision module. You can make more than one but plugging more than one into modular armor does nothing.

The game should need 1 for yellow belts, 2 for red, 3 for blue.

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by ssilk » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:19 am

Belt immunity is no fun, it’s just needed, especially for those, who have belt spaghetti, but it lacks long time fun. You forget about it, which is not good.

Also it’s not logical that I can stand on belts without any movement. Sure: easier to program.

I like the idea that it is part of exoskeleton. So that it needs constant movement, but still is able to take the belt speed with for walking.

It makes fun to find such optimizations.

More use: it would be such crazy to use the train tracks, like a Lokomotive you can jump with exoskeleton on the tracks, but you are a slower than trains and you have no signals... high danger, but much fun.

Belt immunity for cars/tank? Needed?
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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by Hannu » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:46 pm

ssilk wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:19 am
I like the idea that it is part of exoskeleton. So that it needs constant movement, but still is able to take the belt speed with for walking.
I do not agree this. When you have exoskeleton you have personal construction bots and do not anymore need to stay middle of spaghetti when you build it. It is most annoying in midgame when you begin to have more complex bus but not yet personal bots.

You can think it is realism, but it is similar realism than avoiding stones and pits on ground when you walk. It does not give any interesting challenge if modeled in the game but just tedious micromanagament of place.

I suggest that player is immune to belts by default from beginning but maybe you could have some device in armor which gives speed benefit if player ran on belt. Or setting if majority of players want to utilize speed bonus.


Belt immunity for cars/tank? Needed?
In my opinion it is not realistic or consistent that 1 m wide conveyor belt moves such massive and wider objects and I do not see any interesting purpose for moving cars by belts. But I have seen that some players feed laboratories with cars on belt. Probably someone wants to keep it. Or maybe there could be some kind of moving chest. I do not care this kind of special cases but player moving with belts is very annoying especially with short vanilla building distance.

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by ssilk » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:23 pm

Hannu wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:46 pm
ssilk wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:19 am
I like the idea that it is part of exoskeleton. So that it needs constant movement, but still is able to take the belt speed with for walking.
I do not agree this. When you have exoskeleton you have personal construction bots and do not anymore need to stay middle of spaghetti when you build it. It is most annoying in midgame when you begin to have more complex bus but not yet personal bots.
Not quite correct. When you have 16 belts wide bus it is complicated even with bots.
You can think it is realism, but it is similar realism than avoiding stones and pits on ground when you walk. It does not give any interesting challenge if modeled in the game but just tedious micromanagament of place.
Nothing changes, but the excosceleton moves automatically, when you stand on belts. So this is - in my opinion - just a graphical effect, which reminds you now and then to that feature. I don't know, if that looks really nice. It doesn't need (much) energy.
I suggest that player is immune to belts by default from beginning but maybe you could have some device in armor which gives speed benefit if player ran on belt. Or setting if majority of players want to utilize speed bonus.
Hm. Sorry, but I would give that less to no chance. ;) My opinion.

Belt immunity for cars/tank? Needed?
In my opinion it is not realistic or consistent that 1 m wide conveyor belt moves such massive and wider objects and I do not see any interesting purpose for moving cars by belts. But I have seen that some players feed laboratories with cars on belt. Probably someone wants to keep it. Or maybe there could be some kind of moving chest. I do not care this kind of special cases but player moving with belts is very annoying especially with short vanilla building distance.
Moving chests, boxing etc. is an always repeated request.
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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by BlueTemplar » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:09 pm

Building distance has been significantly increased with 0.17. (6 to 10 m ?)

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Re: Criticism: Belt Immunity Equipment

Post by Hannu » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:04 am

ssilk wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:23 pm
Not quite correct. When you have 16 belts wide bus it is complicated even with bots.
Sure. I have always mods and commands to make things easier in that phase of the game. Vanilla Factorio is far too grindy experience at such level.

Nothing changes, but the excosceleton moves automatically, when you stand on belts. So this is - in my opinion - just a graphical effect, which reminds you now and then to that feature. I don't know, if that looks really nice. It doesn't need (much) energy.
You can also think that there is some gap between belts and player set his foots in those positions automatically like in real world.

Hm. Sorry, but I would give that less to no chance. ;) My opinion.
I do not also believe it. That's why I asked command to get behavior I like.

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