[0.17.38] Items disappear when picking up assembling machine

[Murzik]

When I cancel crafting in an assembling machine by picking it up, it doesn't return items invested into crafting, which used to be the case in 0.16. I wonder if it's a bug or intended behaviour, but I didn't find stuff like this in the release notes. It would be nice to have the old behaviour back.

item-disappear-possible-bug.jpg (154.44 KiB) Viewed 6758 times

[orzelek]

From what I understand it shouldn't return the items from the currently ongoing craft.
All the items from ingredient slots should go to inventory.

[eradicator]

From what I understand it shouldn't return the items from the currently ongoing craft.
All the items from ingredient slots should go to inventory.

Pretty sure that somewhere in this forum exists a thread with a very similar topic where a dev said that (paraphrased) "The main philosophy of factorio is that the player should never be punished for making a wrong placement decision. This is why - contrary to many other games - you never lose any of the invested resources when deconstructing machines."

Also OP says it didn't happen in 0.16, so i vote for bug (with my non-existant voting right :p).

[Choumiko]

Not a bug:
68370
67923 (No dev comment but those threads have been moved to Not a bug)

But there is a mod: Dont lose in progress ingredients

[Ultros]

Not a bug:
68370
67923 (No dev comment but those threads have been moved to Not a bug)

This seems extremely unusual to me, though. Losing all your 235 for a simple placement error is a rather large punishment. This also explains why I lost all my 235 while attempting to run my first kovarex build a while back. It was rather annoying having to get the 40 235 all over from scratch, so I had to reload a save.

It also doesn't make sense why a Factorio dev (Bilka) would make a mod to fix it instead of fixing it in the game code directly.

[eradicator]

It also doesn't make sense why a Factorio dev (Bilka) would make a mod to fix it instead of fixing it in the game code directly.

The weird thing is, it *is* fixed in the code. I looked at the mod expecting expensive script hacks, but it simply sets "return_ingredients_on_change = true" on every machine. This means the engine is still perfectly capable of the old behavior, it's just been turned off by default.

@Bilka: A description on the wiki wouldn't hurt. "return_ingredients_on_change" is a rather abstract description.)

[Bilka]

It also doesn't make sense why a Factorio dev (Bilka) would make a mod to fix it instead of fixing it in the game code directly.

Within a team of 20 people, differing opinions exist. In the end, someone makes a decision: 57452

[Ultros]

Within a team of 20 people, differing opinions exist. In the end, someone makes a decision: 57452

Thanks for the clarification. I'm still heavily in favour of this being reset back to the .16 behaviour.

It's a little ironic that the eponymously named kovarex process is the reason I discovered this bug (or should I call it, unusual development choice) initially, and is the same reason I strongly oppose this choice.

While it's theoretically possible to exploit the engine by using productivity to spawn items for free with >100% productivity, I think the drawback of being punished for deconstructing a misplaced or misconfigured centrifuge is way too great. Furthermore, I don't think it's possible to achieve >100% productivity on anything in vanilla other than miners at the moment. With lower levels of productivity, the best that can be done is to achieve a higher ratio of output for input products.

This is not to mention that the entire process has to be done by manually resetting recipes, which is plainly silly tedious, and would not make sense since the alternative (expanding the factory) will get you to your goal way more quickly and with more fun.

[Theikkru]

+1. It seems backwards that people have to go to considerable lengths to destroy unwanted items (sacrifice box and bullets) while at the same time potentially precious ingredients are snatched away so easily.

If productivity exploitation is in fact the problem, I'd argue that there are better ways to handle it. In the 57452 thread, I saw a merit-worthy suggestion that productivity bonus (the yellow bar) be allowed to accumulate beyond 100%, and only be resolved into additional output whenever the base crafting progress completes.

[eradicator]

It also doesn't make sense why a Factorio dev (Bilka) would make a mod to fix it instead of fixing it in the game code directly.

Within a team of 20 people, differing opinions exist. In the end, someone makes a decision: 57452

I am also heavily in favour of the 0.16 behavior, as i find it fits much better into the "don't punish the player" philosophy that factorio otherwise embraces.

But..one thing about the kovarex process especially sticks out: 40 of the input U235 are technically catalysts. Catalysts are never consumed, and thus should always be returned, hopefully at least that can be agreed upon by all parties.

[posila]

I've noticed this has been moved to Not a bug without a response again, so I will put my response here.

It is the first bugfix of 0.17.0 changelog. The change was made by kovarex who considers returning of items to be a bug, and he feels strongly about it, as there were some tough arguments about it inside the team.

...
Bugfixes

• Fixed that canceling production in assembling machine did return the products in progress.

...

[HurkWurk]

one of my favorite quotes from Legion: "you ever try to unmake soup?"

[cgar]

Fixed that canceling production in assembling machine did return the products in progress.

Fixed that errant assembler placement could be corrected without punishment. Because being reasonable is sinful.

[Optera]

Not a bug:
68370
67923 (No dev comment but those threads have been moved to Not a bug)

But there is a mod: Dont lose in progress ingredients

Sadly I need more and more mods to fix Factorios official bugfixes.
In early 0.16 I was perfectly happy to play vanilla. Now I have mods to change back basic oil processing, fix assembler loosing items, allow automated trains with roboports do construction jobs, and the list keeps growing....

[steinio]

Not a bug:
68370
67923 (No dev comment but those threads have been moved to Not a bug)

But there is a mod: Dont lose in progress ingredients

Sadly I need more and more mods to fix Factorios official bugfixes.
In early 0.16 I was perfectly happy to play vanilla. Now I have mods to change back basic oil processing, fix assembler loosing items, allow automated trains with roboports do construction jobs, and the list keeps growing....

Fun thing another dev made this mod.

[Bilka]

Not a bug:
68370
67923 (No dev comment but those threads have been moved to Not a bug)

But there is a mod: Dont lose in progress ingredients

Sadly I need more and more mods to fix Factorios official bugfixes.
In early 0.16 I was perfectly happy to play vanilla. Now I have mods to change back basic oil processing, fix assembler loosing items, allow automated trains with roboports do construction jobs, and the list keeps growing....

Fun thing another dev made this mod.

Damn, if only there was an FFF that specifically listed this issue as debated within the team, that would explain why different devs disagree on how it should be handled.

"allow automated trains with roboports do construction jobs" is funny to me, because that is a mod feature in the first place, so you really aren't fixing/playing vanilla there.

[Optera]

"allow automated trains with roboports do construction jobs" is funny to me, because that is a mod feature in the first place, so you really aren't fixing/playing vanilla there.

I knew after posting someone was going to pick on that.
My point however is that adding equipment grid to trains is no longer enough, since allow_robot_dispatch_in_automatic_mode is false by default.

[Loewchen]

If you want to discuss this further do it in the FFF.