Suggestions for getting started on Pyanodon?

[kurtzilla]

Looking for mod lists to get started with Pyanodon. Something tells me that I shouldn't just go full bore and add all of them in from the start
Would like to use 0.17x

[Rue99]

Start with industry and coal processing. Industry just adds nice buildings, coal processing is the gentlest of introductions to the suite.

[pyanodon]

1 - pyCoalProcessing = base mod
2 - pyIndustry and pyFusionEnergy = Adds things but optionals, not gonna interfere more than pyCP already did.
3 - pyRawOres = Here things start to get serious
4 - ptHighTech = Ultimate suffering

[immortal_sniper1]

1 - pyCoalProcessing = base mod
2 - pyIndustry and pyFusionEnergy = Adds things but optionals, not gonna interfere more than pyCP already did.
3 - pyRawOres = Here things start to get serious
4 - ptHighTech = Ultimate suffering

you forgot the upcoming oil

[Lurve]

Add all the mods. It's like a cold pool. Jump in and you'll acclimate faster. Trying to creep in slowly will just make every new step as frigid as the first.

[kurtzilla]

I ended up doing all the pyMods plus a bunch of Bob's and a bit of Angel's.
Just making iron is a chore (but in a good way)

[GrumpyJoe]

having spend around 150h on a server as my introduction to pY, i came to the conclusion that including AB is a waste of time. they are nice by themself, but they will make you miss so much cool stuff.
I built the full sorting, smelting, casting complex and only now, at circuits 2 have i joined the rest of the gang and i wish i was suffering with them form the start

just relearn everything, its fun

[kurtzilla]

Would anyone who enjoys Pyanodon consider posting their mod list? Perhaps they could give a brief description of their pain level as well - haha

[reapersms]

Rough guess off the top of my head:

py coal, fusion, hightech, raw ores, industry
long reach
QoL research (mostly for an extra quickbar or two, but move speed and handcrafting speed are good bonuses too)
electric boilers
advanced electric -- gives extra tiers of steam engines, and primary/secondary versions
pyblock
LTN
the newish LTN manager GUI
FNEI
Helmod
FARL
Cursed programmable inserters -- wanted the configurable inserter angles back from bobs
Production Monitor
Bottleneck
Deadlock's Compact Loaders, Stacking, Beltboxes, Crating, and the integration into py
Even Distribution
Inland Pumps
Squeak Through
Crafting Combinator -- mostly use it for a mall I have yet to build
Merging Chests
SpaceX
hacked up Seablock Mining to add mining productivity to Ground Borers, Sand Extractors, and Soil Extractors
Stacked Recipes (one I made, adds some extra recipes that take deadlock stacked items for various bulk things)
a local tweak mod to adjust a few other things (change LTN requirement to circuit 1, add a nucleosynthesis recipe for sulph->phosphate rock, and add an extra tier of ground borer recipes with double the output but using syngas instead of coalgas)


Save is up around 110 hours or so, and I almost have circuit 2s produced, but not really automated. Right now it relies on manually dumping a bunch of intermediates in a warehouse for the electronic factories for the level 2 components to work from, and I don't make optical fibers yet. Base is a gigantic bowl of spaghetti, as laying down tracks to blueprints is annoying without a personal roboport. It's also going through a general coke starvation patch for everything beyond the power production.

Pain level is manageable, though some of the numbers helmod spits out are intimidating. It sure looks like it's a far better idea to produce zinc plates by way of transmuting copper than actually mining and processing it for instance, but maybe the numbers get a lot nicer past the first molten zinc recipe...

Getting oil production scaled up in pyblock is a bit of a challenge from an aromatics shortage

[GrumpyJoe]

a local tweak mod to adjust a few other things (change LTN requirement to circuit 1

FYI, i made a mod that did just this, presented it to Optera and it made it into the original in a few hours, after some discussion about balance
You only need constant combinators, a lamp and cables now, which should not be higher than circuit 1.
Raw mats increased a little in vanilla, to make up for the removal of red circuits (circuit 2 here and in Bob´s electronics) so they are easier in modded games, because thats what LTN is really used for

[reapersms]

Yeah, I used the existence of that one as justification for doing it here. I'm still on 16.51 though, so there's a number of things that went into the 0.17 mod updates that haven't made it down yet, and I'm wary of updating some things. The base is such a mess of spaghetti right now that if a recipe quietly changes, or such I won't notice for quite a while if it's something not too blatant.

Almost have the train track loop around it finished though, so some of the logistical nightmares will start resolving themselves slowly...

[Lurve]

Would anyone who enjoys Pyanodon consider posting their mod list? Perhaps they could give a brief description of their pain level as well - haha

In 0.16 I used all pymods + bob's logistics & inserters. Made a single mess of spaghetti and bots that I took past circuits 2 before 0.17 dropped and I decided to restart. This wasn't bad at all, although if I were to do it again I'd design around a bot swarm and a *fluid* bus. Pymod has enough fluids used in enough places that it works: water/tailings/h2/o2/h2so4, tar/coal gas/syngas/refined syngas/aromatics, etc.

In 0.17 I'm punishing myself by not using bots at all (or the Bob convenience mods) and building a train network immediately. Which has been kind of a mistake since rails are crazy expensive, but my rail-powered production has roughly caught up to where it was when I started, and it's much better organized so I'll just roll with it. I'm using TSM, which is handy for distribution once you get it set up, but each product needs its own station so there's a lot of overhead. And it turns out logistic tech is bugged right now anyway.

Overall, I think the level of masochism is overstated. The general philosophy is to start you with a massively inefficient process, but bootstrap to something better fairly quickly. If you're familiar with Angel's refining, it's a lot like that but more so, with each metal having a unique chain so there's always something that needs to be torn up and rebuilt. That said, the mods do need a pass by a sane person to smooth out some of the antipatterns. In particular, there's a massive infrastructure jump to circuits 2, requiring tens of hours' work setting up intermediate processes that have no other use at that point in the game. Basically everything you can produce before circuits 2, you will need for circuits 2. Everyone here seems to slather over it, but it's just crap design that ought to be broken up with useful milestones.

FYI, i made a mod that did just this, presented it to Optera and it made it into the original in a few hours, after some discussion about balance
You only need constant combinators, a lamp and cables now, which should not be higher than circuit 1.
Raw mats increased a little in vanilla, to make up for the removal of red circuits (circuit 2 here and in Bob´s electronics) so they are easier in modded games, because thats what LTN is really used for

How well does LTN work for a big base? I used it for an angel-bob-spacex game, and it was great at the start but eventually it had issues with stations that needed or provided goods with differing amounts of material. Either the trains would ignore key runs because the limits were set too high, or they'd ignore key runs because they were too busy shlepping waste products. There was no way to specify "call a train if you need more than 100 of x, but more than 1000 of y."

Then again TSM needs half a dozen stations for everything, so maybe breaking it up wouldn't be the worst solution... Tell you what I'll give it a try, thanks for putting in the effort to update it.

[GrumpyJoe]

How well does LTN work for a big base? I used it for an angel-bob-spacex game, and it was great at the start but eventually it had issues with stations that needed or provided goods with differing amounts of material. Either the trains would ignore key runs because the limits were set too high, or they'd ignore key runs because they were too busy shlepping waste products. There was no way to specify "call a train if you need more than 100 of x, but more than 1000 of y."

Then again TSM needs half a dozen stations for everything, so maybe breaking it up wouldn't be the worst solution... Tell you what I'll give it a try, thanks for putting in the effort to update it.

If there is not enough trains to ship everything, then there is.... well, not enough trains. put more depots down, spread across the map.
As long as the script updates dont eat your performance, LTN itself shouldn´t cause any problems. At least not if you have enough trains to prevent a shortage
As for tresholds: thats something you always need to consider, all the time.
LTN is easy to use in default mode as for example Nilaus did in his mods highlight video, but needs careful planning when going big, with more than just 100 and 200 in item stack sizes

You could also work with priorities and network IDs

Im in the process of writing a script for a more detailed guide of advanced LTN things, unfortunatly i had to stop this week cos of RL eating away time
I got the basics done, but i will at least need 2 more weeks and the heart to present it in a video
And i need that script to follow a clear path to make an actaully useful guide, my thoughts are usually all over the place, would be confusing

[BlueTemplar]

Overall, I think the level of masochism is overstated. The general philosophy is to start you with a massively inefficient process, but bootstrap to something better fairly quickly. If you're familiar with Angel's refining, it's a lot like that but more so, with each metal having a unique chain so there's always something that needs to be torn up and rebuilt.

I've tried a Death World for my first Py, got trapped despite having experience with Angel's Smelting (technically not lost, just a sloooooowwww dribble of iron due to pollution constraints), and was in the process of restarting a game when 0.17 dropped...

[kurtzilla]

I have ended up with quite the laundry list of mods and did experience a crash. Not sure where to post the log file (per the error message). Is there a way to tell from the logfile as to which mod (etc) caused the crash?

[GrumpyJoe]

I have ended up with quite the laundry list of mods and did experience a crash. Not sure where to post the log file (per the error message). Is there a way to tell from the logfile as to which mod (etc) caused the crash?

yes there is.
load it up with an editor (not the standard windows one tho), i use VScode

It should be somewhere at the bottom, as its usually "crashing" right after an error occurs. It was around line 330 for use, so just scroll way down

Or just upload it here

[kurtzilla]

I looked through a bit - but not sure what the smoking gun is. factorio-build-zeryjy ?

[GrumpyJoe]

sorry, not really an expert either and nothing jumped at me immediatly.

Our crash was easier, we forgot to add std-lib and the mod handler doesnt update colors dependencies until you reload the game. at least not any more
But that was on an active map, you are loading that mod setup the first time?

[reapersms]

Looks like you've got a 0.17 game, but not all of the mods are set up for 0.17 yet -- things looking for science packs that don't exist anymore, things trying to stack raw wood. Those are probably from the touched compatability pack, and I think the deadlock mods got restructured for 0.17, so there might be an old one in there. Several of those warnings are normal though.

Lots of things that are using the old emissions data, but that was new in the last couple of 0.17 versions.

The crash itself looks like a doozy, it's an actual game crash, not it refusing to load mods. Looks like something managed to corrupt the list of item prototypes.

[Lurve]

Overall, I think the level of masochism is overstated. The general philosophy is to start you with a massively inefficient process, but bootstrap to something better fairly quickly. If you're familiar with Angel's refining, it's a lot like that but more so, with each metal having a unique chain so there's always something that needs to be torn up and rebuilt.

I've tried a Death World for my first Py, got trapped despite having experience with Angel's Smelting (technically not lost, just a sloooooowwww dribble of iron due to pollution constraints), and was in the process of restarting a game when 0.17 dropped...

Alright, that's correctly stated masochism.

I'd advise turning off biters completely. The mod is grindy enough without adding a huge lead sink. If you need something adversarial, install Natural Tree Expansion.