[0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Some mods, made by Bob. Basically streaks every Factroio-area.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:39 pm

der Papst wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:57 pm
When trying to play a game in "rail world"-mode, i always encounter the problem of a missing important resource in a very big radius.

If the resource is important for early game (for example galena), the game is nearly impossible.
In my current game, silicone ore is missing (there's only a small field with 1k of it near my base).
I'm walking around with a solar-powered Radar MK2 for (ingame) days now and still did not find any of it.

The game makes usually sure a small amount of every (vanilla?) resource is in the "starting area", maybe you could use this function for your new ores too?
I did in the latest version, however, due to the fact that there's a value I can't change (starting area reasources) which is used by the base game BEFORE I'd be able to change it, there's nothing I can do to make it better.
So, although maps can generate fine and give all 7 resources in the starting area, occasionally it tries to generate the same ore on top of another, and the result is that it's missing from the starting area.

There is a fix, but it's not exactly friendly. it involves you implementing your own version of the autoplace system, then applying it to base game ores again.
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by kenlon » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:43 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:39 pm
There is a fix, but it's not exactly friendly. it involves you implementing your own version of the autoplace system, then applying it to base game ores again.
Doesn't RSO do this? I'm pretty sure it does - if so, adding that mod would handle your problem.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:47 pm

kenlon wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:43 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:39 pm
There is a fix, but it's not exactly friendly. it involves you implementing your own version of the autoplace system, then applying it to base game ores again.
Doesn't RSO do this? I'm pretty sure it does - if so, adding that mod would handle your problem.
this is also a solution. RSO removes all base game autoplace systems, and places ore itself.

I personally don't use it, but many Bob's mods players do, so that's enough of a recommendation to me.
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by themadgunman » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:29 pm

I found another problem is that some of the ore patches are incredibly hard to distinguish against the background of the map (Galena, I'm looking at you), I spent about 10 minutes literally crawling around my map view inch by inch at maximum zoom trying to find it as the 1 patch I had spawned on a dark background area, even then i probably only have 1-2 patches in a 2000x2000 tile area compared with about 5-6 times that amount of nickel,zinc etc available in the same area which seems a bit off balance to me.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:39 pm

themadgunman wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:29 pm
I found another problem is that some of the ore patches are incredibly hard to distinguish against the background of the map (Galena, I'm looking at you), I spent about 10 minutes literally crawling around my map view inch by inch at maximum zoom trying to find it as the 1 patch I had spawned on a dark background area, even then i probably only have 1-2 patches in a 2000x2000 tile area compared with about 5-6 times that amount of nickel,zinc etc available in the same area which seems a bit off balance to me.
I may need to tweak some numbers.
As for colour, its not easy coming up with unique ones for every material. I chose what I did because it fit the ore, and wasn't an issue in earlier versions of the game. it's pretty much just a slightly lighter version of coal.

unfortunately, the map colours have changed a little since then, and it tends to blend in with a lot of the grassy terrain types. however, it is very easy to see on desert.
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by themadgunman » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:50 pm

Yeah there used to a cool little mod called Map Labels that would label the ore patches on the map that could have helped but i wasn't able to find an updated version of it at the time, it does seem that some of the ratios are a bit off though but i haven't progressed enough in my current game to ascertain just whats needed (I'm currently making a totally modular LTN based system with all your mods installed, up to over 100 stations and I've barely automated blue science :o ) but Galena was definitely a bit of a nightmare for me as my map is all grass/mud and no desert :)

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:25 pm

themadgunman wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:50 pm
Yeah there used to a cool little mod called Map Labels that would label the ore patches on the map that could have helped but i wasn't able to find an updated version of it at the time, it does seem that some of the ratios are a bit off though but i haven't progressed enough in my current game to ascertain just whats needed (I'm currently making a totally modular LTN based system with all your mods installed, up to over 100 stations and I've barely automated blue science :o ) but Galena was definitely a bit of a nightmare for me as my map is all grass/mud and no desert :)
According to the numbers, it SHOULD be about as common as Coal. it has a VERY slightly lower size in the starting area though.

In any case, if you don't like the new system... well, there's always RSO, but you're still stuck with the colours.
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by themadgunman » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Well I'm using RSO atm, mostly because I've always used it and it was set nicely to produce the denser/more spread out fields that I prefer, however in the current map I probably have at least 5x the amount of Coal than i have Galena (9 visible Coal vs 2 visible Galena), whether that's because of RSO or just plain random luck I have no idea. I'm guessing its pretty hard for you to actually set workable ratio's when people can mess with all the spawn settings using mods though :(

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by orzelek » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:34 am

themadgunman wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:38 pm
Well I'm using RSO atm, mostly because I've always used it and it was set nicely to produce the denser/more spread out fields that I prefer, however in the current map I probably have at least 5x the amount of Coal than i have Galena (9 visible Coal vs 2 visible Galena), whether that's because of RSO or just plain random luck I have no idea. I'm guessing its pretty hard for you to actually set workable ratio's when people can mess with all the spawn settings using mods though :(
I can give you the theoretical ratio:
Coal is 80 and Galena is 40 so theory would say it should be twice as rare... No idea why galena is so low tho. I did that configs long time ago might need to upgrade it a bit.

I had an idea how to make those random luck rolls a bit less random in RSO but been kinda to lazy to try and implement it. And it would cause few other things to not function - mainly ore regeneration.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by woniubbg » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:20 am

The volume of bob's mining mk2 and higher is 100 while the electric mining is 200
it cause bobs mining cant mine ores which nees fluid

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by themadgunman » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:49 am

So last night I update the Resource Labels mod to 0.17 and just for laugh I generated 4 maps without water, charted a 2000x2000 area and counted the amount of Coal and Galena on each (excluding start area), the results were as follows:

Map 1 had 37M Coal in 4 patches,10M Galena in 3 patches
Map 2 had 8M Coal in 2 patches, 7M Galena in 1 patch
Map 3 had 48M Coal in 4 patches and 8M Galena in 2 patches
Map 4 had 11M Coal in 3 patches and 4M Galena in 1 patch

Not quite sure what to make of this but it does indeed seem to indicate Galena is definitely under represented compared to Coal, and also that random is very very random indeed.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:50 am

themadgunman wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:38 pm
Well I'm using RSO atm, mostly because I've always used it and it was set nicely to produce the denser/more spread out fields that I prefer, however in the current map I probably have at least 5x the amount of Coal than i have Galena (9 visible Coal vs 2 visible Galena), whether that's because of RSO or just plain random luck I have no idea. I'm guessing its pretty hard for you to actually set workable ratio's when people can mess with all the spawn settings using mods though :(
themadgunman wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:49 am
So last night I update the Resource Labels mod to 0.17 and just for laugh I generated 4 maps without water, charted a 2000x2000 area and counted the amount of Coal and Galena on each (excluding start area), the results were as follows:

Map 1 had 37M Coal in 4 patches,10M Galena in 3 patches
Map 2 had 8M Coal in 2 patches, 7M Galena in 1 patch
Map 3 had 48M Coal in 4 patches and 8M Galena in 2 patches
Map 4 had 11M Coal in 3 patches and 4M Galena in 1 patch

Not quite sure what to make of this but it does indeed seem to indicate Galena is definitely under represented compared to Coal, and also that random is very very random indeed.
If you use RSO, then all base game methods to create ores, including the ones used by Bob's mods are disabled, and therefore your reports don't apply to my mods, they apply to RSO instead.
woniubbg wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:20 am
The volume of bob's mining mk2 and higher is 100 while the electric mining is 200
it cause bobs mining cant mine ores which nees fluid
I'll look into it.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by themadgunman » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:59 am

bobingabout wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:50 am
If you use RSO, then all base game methods to create ores, including the ones used by Bob's mods are disabled, and therefore your reports don't apply to my mods, they apply to RSO instead.
Yeah that's my bad, I got a bit carried away and didn't realise RSO uses its own ratios for ore spread, apologies

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:51 am

themadgunman wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:59 am
bobingabout wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:50 am
If you use RSO, then all base game methods to create ores, including the ones used by Bob's mods are disabled, and therefore your reports don't apply to my mods, they apply to RSO instead.
Yeah that's my bad, I got a bit carried away and didn't realise RSO uses its own ratios for ore spread, apologies
No worries. if I know your reports are with RSO, then I know I don't need to look into them as an issue with my mods.
I'm just happy that since my latest round of updates, the issues have been minimal.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by orzelek » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:53 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:51 am
themadgunman wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:59 am
bobingabout wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:50 am
If you use RSO, then all base game methods to create ores, including the ones used by Bob's mods are disabled, and therefore your reports don't apply to my mods, they apply to RSO instead.
Yeah that's my bad, I got a bit carried away and didn't realise RSO uses its own ratios for ore spread, apologies
No worries. if I know your reports are with RSO, then I know I don't need to look into them as an issue with my mods.
I'm just happy that since my latest round of updates, the issues have been minimal.
Made galena and quartz a bit more common in next RSO release. It will not prevent the issue but should make it a bit less skewed. With RSO 2kx2k area is a smallish one - you might need to search further :D Longer range radars from warefare mod are useful.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by raisins » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:57 pm

0.17.12 pollution spawner change broke Bob's Enemies.

Edit: it was fixed within minutes, thanks for your work

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by RocketManChronicles » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:38 pm

Hey Bob, I saw an earlier post about Quartz missing in a large radius. I found out why. Coal is spawning right on top of Quartz, if you set quartz to very large size, you will see it circle around that of coal.

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by bobingabout » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:11 pm

RocketManChronicles wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:38 pm
Hey Bob, I saw an earlier post about Quartz missing in a large radius. I found out why. Coal is spawning right on top of Quartz, if you set quartz to very large size, you will see it circle around that of coal.
Yeah, that's a possible issue with the new generator. if you're having issues with the latest version of ores, try the previous version, or RSO.
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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by woniubbg » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:17 am

bobingabout wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:50 am
themadgunman wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:38 pm
Well I'm using RSO atm, mostly because I've always used it and it was set nicely to produce the denser/more spread out fields that I prefer, however in the current map I probably have at least 5x the amount of Coal than i have Galena (9 visible Coal vs 2 visible Galena), whether that's because of RSO or just plain random luck I have no idea. I'm guessing its pretty hard for you to actually set workable ratio's when people can mess with all the spawn settings using mods though :(
themadgunman wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:49 am
So last night I update the Resource Labels mod to 0.17 and just for laugh I generated 4 maps without water, charted a 2000x2000 area and counted the amount of Coal and Galena on each (excluding start area), the results were as follows:

Map 1 had 37M Coal in 4 patches,10M Galena in 3 patches
Map 2 had 8M Coal in 2 patches, 7M Galena in 1 patch
Map 3 had 48M Coal in 4 patches and 8M Galena in 2 patches
Map 4 had 11M Coal in 3 patches and 4M Galena in 1 patch

Not quite sure what to make of this but it does indeed seem to indicate Galena is definitely under represented compared to Coal, and also that random is very very random indeed.
If you use RSO, then all base game methods to create ores, including the ones used by Bob's mods are disabled, and therefore your reports don't apply to my mods, they apply to RSO instead.
woniubbg wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:20 am
The volume of bob's mining mk2 and higher is 100 while the electric mining is 200
it cause bobs mining cant mine ores which nees fluid
I'll look into it.
thankyou~~

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Re: [0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

Post by BlueTemplar » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:00 pm

der Papst wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:57 pm
When trying to play a game in "rail world"-mode, i always encounter the problem of a missing important resource in a very big radius.

If the resource is important for early game (for example galena), the game is nearly impossible.
In my current game, silicone ore is missing (there's only a small field with 1k of it near my base).
I'm walking around with a solar-powered Radar MK2 for (ingame) days now and still did not find any of it.

The game makes usually sure a small amount of every (vanilla?) resource is in the "starting area", maybe you could use this function for your new ores too?
(Emphasis mine.)
Shouldn't you be able to rush to Car tech without ever needing lead/silicon ?

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