Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by <NO_NAME> » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:33 pm

Nova wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:11 pm
<NO_NAME> wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:50 pm
I think A & B & D | A & C & D | E & F | G will be parsed by the game as (((((A & B & D) | A) & C & D) | E) & F) | G .
No, the game parses first all ANDs, and then all ORs.

A | B & C | D = A | (B & C) | D
OK, you're right: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=31964
Still, it isn't exactly a good UI if you have to search a forum to figure out how it works.
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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by Brambor » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:36 pm

I hope that flamethrower turrets will get this prediction algorithm too. As I see the logic is basically the same, a stream of [acid / flammable oil] is shot in "mortar style" (to a position rather than at an object) and a pool of [acid / burning oil] remains at that position. It just has different effects, damage and damage type.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by R3vo » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:11 pm

I like the new train GUI and the spitters look splendid as well.

However, is there any change you can improve the colour settings for trains stations and trains?

What I think of is a colour pallet which a player can quickly choose a desired colour from (copper, iron, coal... etc.). Additionally, it would be great if players could define their own colours and save them as presets.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by dog80 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:12 pm

why dont people make a new subthread for specific things they want to discuss like trains? so annoying that some discussions totally take over the whole thread and you cant overview the general perspective of the new fff

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by dog80 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:14 pm

Light wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:17 pm
The nests and worms need a texture update as they're lacking shadows and detail compared to their smaller brethren. The new biters and bile projectiles look great though.
oh happy to see when you are done with them

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by matjojo » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:18 pm

How smart will the predictions be? Will I be able to outmanoeuvre them by strafing for example?

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by weaknespase » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:35 pm

<NO_NAME> wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:33 pm
Nova wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:11 pm
<NO_NAME> wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:50 pm
I think A & B & D | A & C & D | E & F | G will be parsed by the game as (((((A & B & D) | A) & C & D) | E) & F) | G .
No, the game parses first all ANDs, and then all ORs.

A | B & C | D = A | (B & C) | D
OK, you're right: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=31964
Still, it isn't exactly a good UI if you have to search a forum to figure out how it works.
Better to offload logic to combinators, this system is way too simple to be really used by humans for complex cases.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by MTKRailroad » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:54 am

I really like the new Train GUI and graphics.
The new biters and spitters look fantastic but I feel the worms texture looks soft, K I know its a WORM but we're talking giant acid spitting alien worms. Maybe add a small recoil animation when they shoot like the spitters do?. Again the biters look fantastic but with these new hi-res graphics I think its high time for a new tier level ;) :D ;) :D maybe 5000 Hp? Heard lots of good ideas about a "Biter Queen" :P Maybe this heavier unit will be a new kind of creature all together?
The new acid balls are good, the detail of it hitting the ground and the new mechanic of it slowing you down is a great addition

The train GUI is great but I struggle with circuit networks and combinators ect.. Is there a way to add conditions to the trains schedule? So after a train goes to Stop#1 Then Stop#2(only if cargo empty) Then proceeds to Stop#3..(if cargo is not empty.)

Love the game Factorio Team. I've got 745 Hours under my belt and looking forward to new content :D :D :D

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by AntiBlueQuirk » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:50 am

This has already been mentioned, in this thread and others, but if the Train GUI looked like this in 0.17, I would be very, very happy. (This is a mockup for Conditional Goto Orders, ala OpenTTD.)
conditional-goto.png
conditional-goto.png (146.97 KiB) Viewed 1102 times
Of course, I'm already going to be happy. But this would be even better. :D

Also, the new biters look amazing!

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by Reika » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:46 am

Nova wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:42 pm
Reika wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:32 pm
For example, there is no way to achieve condition (A & (B | C) & D) | (E & F) | G.
There is, you just have to repeat some statements.

A & B & D | A & C & D | E & F | G
How do you do that either?
Image

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by funky.bibimbap » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:01 am

invisus wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:27 pm
weaknespase wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:20 pm
:D

Counterargument — green bar represents condition fulfillment and it usually helps to have same GUI elements to behave consistently across application.
Agreed. When deleting files, the progress bar still progresses right to left to show "progress toward completing current action."
I was initially pondering about that as well, and then the question popped into my mind: why doesn't the GUI also show the train's wagon contents? This way we could simultaneously see the condition bar filling up, and the wagon contents emptying out. There could be an horizontal ribbon below the map with a simple view of fuel + content wagon by wagon (just showing how many slots are filled). I assume that the detailed contents of each wagon would be available in the "Fuel" tab that the devs haven't shown yet.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by invisus » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:13 am

funky.bibimbap wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:01 am
This way we could simultaneously see the condition bar filling up, and the wagon contents emptying out.
Absolutely. I can see the value in being able to visualize the contents of a wagon(s) as it's filled or emptied. I just didn't like the idea of conflating the progress toward the configured condition, and the wagon(s) current contents. Specifically in that item count would be the only condition I see where "progressing backward" like this would make sense. Perhaps other conditions as well, but breaking convention of a typical progress bar seemed more confusing and painful than easily being able to see the contents of the wagon(s) fill or empty. ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by fur_and_whiskers » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:42 am

pleegwat wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:14 pm
Avezo wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:09 pm
Why can't train fuel be in the same tab? It's annoying having to switch tabs just for such a small use case.
Fuel also needs to display an inventory. Though I could see workflows where you only want to view the amount of fuel, or refuel from your action bar.
It just needs to show fuel: wood, (wood power pole), coal, solid fuel, rocket, nuke. I'm sure they can find space for the train's 3 slots and a slot and total count of each fuel in your inventory.
Last edited by fur_and_whiskers on Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by porcupine » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:00 am

AlexAegis wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:18 pm
PacifyerGrey wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:10 pm
No station skipping conditions? I am truly disappointed...
Was a perfect opportunity but you just missed it...
Yes, this! For station skipping, a perfect use case is refueling stations! Or trains with multiple mine locations with the same name skip the stations if the wagons are already full (and an extra circuitry would disable the mining outpost if it's low on ore buffer to balance things a little, and an extra one to disable every other except itself if its full, my mind is full with ideas!)
FWIW, my train/name every alike station the same blueprint actually skips stations, it's possible with the circuit network (outside of the train schedule logic).

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by fur_and_whiskers » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:56 am

R3vo wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:11 pm
I like the new train GUI and the spitters look splendid as well.

However, is there any change you can improve the colour settings for trains stations and trains?

What I think of is a colour pallet which a player can quickly choose a desired colour from (copper, iron, coal... etc.). Additionally, it would be great if players could define their own colours and save them as presets.
I second this, perhaps include a colour scheme not unlike Dectorio's

Image

or maybe the recommended scheme given on Factorio Cheat Sheet https://factoriocheatsheet.com/ based on the discussion "what is your color scheme for trains" https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... or_trains/
as well as a colour pallet, something along the lines of

Image

Where "Basic colors" would be the recommended scheme, etc.
Last edited by fur_and_whiskers on Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by End0Skeleton » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:01 am

Definitely think the new Train GUI is better, and more flexible. As someone stated earlier and probably somewhere else on this forum, the ability to search for trains and name them would be great.

The combat mechanics for the worm are better too. The first time I was attacked by a worm and tried to dodge the spit and it still homed on me.. I was left speechless, I've never seen homing acid spit. Great work guys! Can't wait for 0.17

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by fur_and_whiskers » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:04 am

AlexAegis wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:57 pm
Hey, would be a nice touch to copy and paste train station conditions. It wouldn't even need extra buttons, I would be happy to be able just hover over a scheduled stop and press ctrl-c then ctrl-v to a blank area to create a copy then I can just change the station, or hover over another existing one and overwrite the conditions on that entry.
If you're talking about train stops I do this regularly in Vanilla using the standard copy/paste key/mouse clicks.
And they they are retained in blueprints as well

Also with 0.17 trains can be blueprinted https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-263

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by fur_and_whiskers » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:26 am

In addition to other suggestions and requests for clearer interface layout for train conditions and skip stop logistics,
I would love to see something like TrainsCaller mod make it into Vanilla.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/TrainsCaller
Low performance overhead, sensible useful trains logistics that is relatively easy to understand and setup
Covered by Xterminator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cZzD3pt6r8

From what I can tell the more popular LTN is quite complicated meaning many players may be confused and/or ignore it if it was Vanilla, plus it has a substantial overhead.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/LogisticTrainNetwork

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by fur_and_whiskers » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:36 am

Worm in FFF 259
Image

Worm in FFF 279 looks the same but blurry. Were the graphics in this FFF were meant to be highlighted or just the game mechanics?

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Re: Friday Facts #279 - Train GUI & Modern Spitter

Post by JCav » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:34 am

Like others, I believe the train GUI still needs some sort of bracket functionality built-in for scheduling stops. The UI is interesting...not entirely sold on it yet like previous FFF presentations.

I am not a fan of the new textures for the burrowing worms. They look far too soft and blurry for something we're to presume ate through the ground.

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