Friday Facts #44 - Decision making

[Drexir]

What is a tank? To us modern humans. What is it's purpose? Well soldiers on the front lines can face numerous problems. They can simply be outnumbered. Not to mention losing soldiers when the enemy has a tactical advantage. Maybe they have heavy fortification, heavy machine weaponary that pins the soldiers down or suppression. Or an example is the battle of Iwo Jima. Invading the beach that was incredibly fortified and they were outmatched. A lot of soldiers were killed just trying to set foot on the island. I'm not entirely sure how the US soldiers even managed to pull it off. Through stories I've read and have been documented from the soldiers that survived that day it simply comes to the conclusion that they were extremely brave and somehow through heroic soldiers actions they were able to pull off the impossible. Maybe that's not the greatest example because I have no idea why taking over that island was so important to the winning of the war or much less why we invaded the way we did. I don't know that much about that war to understand seems like there would have been a better way than marching a ton of lives to their death. But that's besides the point.

The point of a tank is to have a heavily armored vehicle to have a tactical advantage on the frontlines. So if there is an area of heavy foritfication or heavy machine weapons that inevitably would just slaughter the soldiers. So we have a tank to counter-attack that. In factorio at the moment it's a case of being outnumbered by the enemy that would make it appealing to have a tank in how we define it. I do realize this is an alpha but basically your single character especially at higher tech can easily act as a tank him self and kill the enemy in-game no problem. Maybe when we have a tank we should probably look at balancing that so the tank is actually useful.

The thing is how do we fit our modern tanks into a game like factorio cause that just wouldn't make sense. It has to fit somehow. Maybe at the beginning it has sort of a basic tank role. Then you can upgrade it to have more futurists types of armor and weapons and the feel and look of that should obviously be represented in the game.

Using google as always for images in an attempt to replicate what I picture in my head is:



The vibe I get from factorio is nothing is ever that clean looking. But cool futuristic tank.


Also this is just awesome:



Who needs tracks when we have legs. I guess it's often called a spider tank. Granted the legs just allow you to climb things. in facotorio there's really not much to climb. Or another words their's no height to it. I posted it just because it looks cool.

Also hover tanks is nothing new in sci-fi. Like in halo the alien vehicles. Or like the actual tank in planetside 2 the magrider.

[Rahjital]

I don't think there's really any point in trying to make the design of the tank functional and tailored to the needs of fighting against biters, because those needs wouldn't have led to a tank in the first place. Considering the logical reasons for a style is more important, though, because the viewers will piece together the story out of them. The character should have knowledge of modern tanks but not the means to build them. WW2-esque manufacturing methods may be easier to manage, though... which leads to a modern MBT-style tank built with elements of WW2 tanks, like riveted plating and some rather un-streamlined design elements. It should also have plenty of elements people associate with tanks and want to see them there - a big and powerful gun instead of a peashooter and a robust and massive design (again, modern MBTs fit that the best).

[HinFoo]

cmon now you dont need Heavy artillery for fighting meatballs on legs.

a couple of Heavy machineguns will do fine

[kovarex]

cmon now you dont need Heavy artillery for fighting meatballs on legs.

a couple of Heavy machineguns will do fine

Meatballs on legs? You should watch the "Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind" to understand the proportions

[Balthazar]

Sooo at what tech level can we expect to get tanks? Are we going to kite with them or can they stand up to biter waves? Are they customizable like power armor?

[pdiddy973]

i think it would be neat if instead of already made tanks with a specific design and weapons...why not have a "build your own" tank idea? you could have multiple parts and add the ones you want...and maybe have restrictions based on certain parts like the engine could have a max torque and the hull can only support certain types of weapons i think that would add alot more custombality to the game...this would also be a neat idea to be able to make custom train cars/engines so you could have a train car with a slower max speed but higher storage or you can have an engine with a lower speed but more torque so then it goes slower but i can haul alot more

[Drury]

cmon now you dont need Heavy artillery for fighting meatballs on legs.

a couple of Heavy machineguns will do fine

Have you ever fought a big biter?

A couple of heavy machineguns would suffice only if they rapidfired rockets instead of bullets. It's like their skin is three layers of diamond.

[THENIRL]

I'd suggest the first tanks available be made kind of anachronistic, a little towards the steampunk. As research advances, more advanced versions could become available =D

[JamesOFarrell]

Meatballs on legs? You should watch the "Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind" to understand the proportions

I knew that moves had to be the inspiration for biters.

[SilverWarior]

I must say that I agree about the need for tank design to be more fitting into the overal story of Factorio. Becouse of that I don't feel that posted suggestions fit in.

So here are few of my suggestions:
Currently in Factorio your main enemy are biters. As their name suggest they are meled enemies which bite and chew you to death. So what would be the easiest protection agins this? Spikes. Therefore I strongly suggest that tank has bunch of spikes on its hull.

As for weapons I do think tank should have primary and secondary weapons. And it should have modular design so you can chose weapon by your preference. Some available wepons to be available:
Primary weapons:
1. Canon for attacking turets, buildings, or group of biters. It should have medium range (less than rockets), and also have minimal range (not suitable for mele combat).
2. Rocket launcher is similar to cannon but it has greater range and ability for rochets to home-in to target. Maybe it should have lesser area of effect than cannon.
3. Laser cannon is basically laser turret mounted as turret.
Secondary weapons:
1. Machine guns which can be used for close combat with the biters.
2. Flamethrower which would be good for killing hordes which are in close proximity of you.
3. Grenade/poison capsule launcher could be quite usefull in certain scenarios

[roy80bill]

So I know a modular design has been suggested by a few people before me, but not nearly as much as I expected. So here's my two cents.

Break tanks down into component parts. Treads, Engine, Hull, Turret, Gun. If you wanted to, you could break some of those down even further, though I expect it would most likely just be the gun. I.E. Machine gun, cannon, howitzer, flamethrower, shotgun, railgun, laser. The further down a research line you get, the more effective the weapons are, the faster the turret can turn, the more sturdy the hull and treads are, the more powerful the engine is.

The person before me also suggested secondary weapons. Perhaps after a certain level of turret research, you would be able to slot a few of the weapon types in a secondary slot, or open up a new set of research specific to the secondary slot.

Of course, this is certainly a lot to research, so to balance it out, make the lower levels of research fairly cheap, to at least give you a taste of what each research tree can offer, and then have later levels of research have steeper cost growth curves to even out with everything else.

This gives players the freedom to research what they want out of their tank, so they can customize it how they want to deal with what they find to be the bigger threat.

Of course, this is all ignoring the likely difficulty of making a modular vehicle like that. So if such a thing proves infeasible, my vote's for design 7.

[omegasrevenge]

The gattling gun in the top right corner of the bottom picture had me salivating *_*;;
That aside, I am really hyped up for the multiplayer. I have already played 100 hours of factorio and the game, even modded, has already lost its luster - but I know multiplayer can fix that! When I think of Factorio, the other voices in my head start to chant 'MultiplayerMultiplayerMultiplayerMultiplayerMultiplayer.....', it's disconcerting.

[ssilk]

@roy80bill: you suggestion sound cool. It should be made on the suggestion board, cause it can't be sure, that this is read by the devs.

[XxKR4K3NxX]

I like the idea of having a generations concept where you can see a gradual improvement both in graphics and functionality, what I propose is since people are torn between the two we pull a power armor on them. Have the generation and base stats for each, however make them modular just like the power armors, best of both worlds Just a suggestion might be more difficult than just pure modular but it would definitely be interesting to see.

[XxKR4K3NxX]

So I know a modular design has been suggested by a few people before me, but not nearly as much as I expected. So here's my two cents.

Break tanks down into component parts. Treads, Engine, Hull, Turret, Gun. If you wanted to, you could break some of those down even further, though I expect it would most likely just be the gun. I.E. Machine gun, cannon, howitzer, flamethrower, shotgun, railgun, laser. The further down a research line you get, the more effective the weapons are, the faster the turret can turn, the more sturdy the hull and treads are, the more powerful the engine is.

The person before me also suggested secondary weapons. Perhaps after a certain level of turret research, you would be able to slot a few of the weapon types in a secondary slot, or open up a new set of research specific to the secondary slot.

Of course, this is certainly a lot to research, so to balance it out, make the lower levels of research fairly cheap, to at least give you a taste of what each research tree can offer, and then have later levels of research have steeper cost growth curves to even out with everything else.

This gives players the freedom to research what they want out of their tank, so they can customize it how they want to deal with what they find to be the bigger threat.

Of course, this is all ignoring the likely difficulty of making a modular vehicle like that. So if such a thing proves infeasible, my vote's for design 7.

Also a very interesting concept that would be awesome to see in action!

[Hazard]

I think there should be three levels of cars, the first is the standard car, fast, poorly armoured and unarmed, the second would be an armoured car with an integrated small caliber autocannon that's a little slower and the third would be the tank, which would be modular, but the base line is a big, slow firing gun with good range to kill big worms and spawners, a smaller gun for close in protection, strong armour but no shields and an engine that can bull through a swarm of big biters but isn't even half as fast as the armoured car.


I do like the idea of AI driven tanks and would love it if we can assign them patrol routes. Even better if they can have a (couple of) Logistics system slots to request fuel and ammo, although that should probably be its own modular system.

[XxKR4K3NxX]

I think there should be three levels of cars, the first is the standard car, fast, poorly armoured and unarmed, the second would be an armoured car with an integrated small caliber autocannon that's a little slower and the third would be the tank, which would be modular, but the base line is a big, slow firing gun with good range to kill big worms and spawners, a smaller gun for close in protection, strong armour but no shields and an engine that can bull through a swarm of big biters but isn't even half as fast as the armoured car.


I do like the idea of AI driven tanks and would love it if we can assign them patrol routes. Even better if they can have a (couple of) Logistics system slots to request fuel and ammo, although that should probably be its own modular system.

The automation idea touches upon something I stumbled upon in another topic https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... les#p27517

I think it would be interesting to have automated routes and different automated modes of transport, as well as these guard tanks, so many good ideas I've been reading here!

[Duros1394]

I don't think a Tank in the traditional thinking is needed. I believe maybe retrofitting your car ( dune buggy) so it can have more armour and a gun mount. also your train can have the same option too?

if anything however the 2nd one on the last page is great as a drone tank. Maybe call it an enforcer?
Realistically Tanks need more than one person to operate...the bugs swarm like mad in this game also. unless your tank has machine (or laser) guns on all sides of the tank
you won't be hitting anything but their spawners with the main gun.

While we are on the subject of weapon systems maybe try thinking up a design for a drone defence for the train system? attack drones already fly so having a cart that holds attack drones on board and releases them if the train stops as defence incase some bugs try to make a home near your tracks.

[The Colonist]

Lots of these tanks are based on WW2 tanks, I can see a T-32 and BT-2 in the selections.

[The Colonist]

I love the idea of tanks, I can raid them with a tank instead of turret creeping on biter nests.