pY HighTech Discussion

[naquada]

There is no recipe avaible for the YAG Laser module in the automated factory

yeah....that MAYBE because it´s made in the nano-material factory...just a thought.

There is no recipe for it in the Nano-material factory either. Or in any machines for that matters. Also checked in single player with everything unlocked.
Running latest versions of factorio and PY mods. See attached image.

[pyanodon]

Well, here its working, probavly some other mod youre using thats causing that issue

[naquada]

Well, here its working, probavly some other mod youre using thats causing that issue

Your right. After swapping several mods i narrowed it down to CoppermineBobModuleRebalancing_0.2.0. No idea why it's causing YAG to disappear tho.

[ZombieMooose]

I have a question, Pyandon.

What is the likelihood you'll bring your level of complexity to the engine and battery chains?

They are way more complex to make than base game, or even bobs handles and it seems right up your alley.

Cheers.

[pyanodon]

I have a question, Pyandon.

What is the likelihood you'll bring your level of complexity to the engine and battery chains?

They are way more complex to make than base game, or even bobs handles and it seems right up your alley.

Cheers.

Im affraid of complicate things too much. PyHT divide opinions between the users because his extreme complexity. I have plans to add these modified recipes for bateries, belts, engines and such for pyIndustry.

[Raphaello]

Im affraid of complicate things too much. PyHT divide opinions between the users because his extreme complexity. I have plans to add these modified recipes for bateries, belts, engines and such for pyIndustry.

There is an example of complexity done perfectly in your mods - refining of industrial diamonds. This process is very complex, with loopbacks and difficult ratios. I like this. Other examples are RE and niobium processing.

pyHT has similarly complex processes but frustration (at least for me) comes from the fact that everything is used everywhere in this mod. An example is borax chain - although it is much simpler than kimberlite processing, each of intermediates is used somewhere. Same with phosphates. Fiberboard is another example - it is pretty complex to make but it is used as a component for each level of electronics. If it was one or couple of intermediates like this, that would be no issue. However sheer number of the intermediates that are used in more than one or two places requires huge space for belt logistics.
I am right now working my way towards third level electronics and I will make these completely with bots. I simply lost interest in extending my already very long and wide bus.

Your mods are great - they have a lot of great ideas in them and I enjoy your work a lot! Many people complain about high complexity of AngelBobs and your mods are even more complex. I am afraid you've raised the bar so high that very few people will actually be able to enjoy your mods - and they deserve more recognition.

Thanks again!!!!!!

[ZombieMooose]

I have a question, Pyandon.

What is the likelihood you'll bring your level of complexity to the engine and battery chains?

They are way more complex to make than base game, or even bobs handles and it seems right up your alley.

Cheers.

Im affraid of complicate things too much. PyHT divide opinions between the users because his extreme complexity. I have plans to add these modified recipes for bateries, belts, engines and such for pyIndustry.

Just for the record I'm not afraid of complicating things too much lol

[Vetrosian]

*snip*

Pretty much all this, in my current multiplayer game I've taken on a lot of the raw resource processing roles because I enjoy making efficient self contained units with as few byproducts as possible.
Thankfully one of my friends is quite happy to spaghettify the base to get some of the more intertwined production chains working.

[pyanodon]

Thank you for the feedback people, is always appreciated :3

[ZombieMooose]

Imagine a nuclear or fusion engine, and some kind of future battery lol

[Haxxibal]

I'm currently doing a bob/py-run for the first time with all pyanodon mods active. So far I'm immensely enjoying the coal processing part while the HiTech is pretty lackluster. The first gives you plenty of alternative options while the latter feels extremely limiting and forces you into very narrow production lines. I don't mind the complexity as much as the awkwardness of some of these recipes. They often require arbitrary ingredients with little to no substitutes and create artificial bottlenecks due to their byproducts or high material requirements. Ferrite, Fiberboard and Etching Solution are good examples. Also science tier requirements are all over the place, some lower tier technologies are hidden behind higher ones while some are accessible but useless because they unlock things that require higher tier science to be manufactured.

I'd like to highlight this by presenting the problem that I'm currently working on and that I can't seem to solve:
After reaching cyan science I tried to calculate the cost of producing bots. The first thing I noticed is that most ingredients are on green or cyan science tier, with the exception of the Paramagnetic Material. That for some reason needs Production Science, and getting that required even more weird materials. But that's not even the worst problem here. Paramagnetic Material also needs 25 myoglobin each and that requires 125 meat and 625 cyanic acid. Said meat can only be gained from zipirs and cyanic acid only comes from urea. The buildings and recipes involved work painstakingly slow. Add that together and you will have to pave most of your base with the basic resource buildings. Even with the highest production modules it still takes over 5000 fawogae plantations to produce one bot per second. That's a 433x433 tile area just for planting down the farms. Then you still have to supply them with all that coke, stone, phosphate, fiber and all the other additional materials.

I understand that meat is a side product of nylon production, but the amounts needed are still way too high. You also only have access to the first production modules until blue circuits, that would ramp up the cost even more. When you compare that to the minuscule amounts of non-myoglobin materials needed it just seems like a huge balancing oversight to me. And this is not just logistic bots. It feels to me that HiTech sacrifices way too much gameplay value to resemble some form of realism. And while I appreciate the quality of added complexity(many realistic materials and factories) I don't understand the quantity(thousands of inefficient buildings and recipes) of it. Am I missing something or is it supposed to work like that?

[Raphaello]

I'm with you on the feedback I play the same setup and had the same challenges (I've just finished lvl3 circuits and I am about to start high level science).
I've also enjoyed balancing of pyCoal - getting proper levels of coal gas, tar, etc was a fun experience. Some chains are also nice (RE, industrial diamonds, chromium).

Some advice:
- use pynobots instead of lvl1 bobs bots - they are available earlier and almost exactly the same
- don't expect to build anything in higher quantities (yes, 1 item per second is high in py world)
- meat is not that bad - I've got 6 warehouses full of skin by now and I almost got through all my backlog of meat
- you'll find that you need to transport items from one side of the base to the other - use trains instead of belts (or bots)
- invest in modules!!! level 5 modules are relatively easy to get and they help tremendously

In retrospective, circuits lvl 2 and 3 plus early science (before high tech science) seems easy The last science before space science is ridiculous.

I am now 250 hours in my save. My base is probably bigger and more complex than 2kspm in vanilla. I am not sure whether I'll finish this, it's getting boring now. I plan to start a new deathworld vanilla map there.


I still recognize a lot of good ideas in HT - I fear however that very few people will actually play it.

EDIT: pyanodon, I assume you recognize this as a sign of us enjoying your work and trying to get it better and accessible to more people!! Please also take it into account while designing new mods!

[pyanodon]

I'm currently doing a bob/py-run for the first time with all pyanodon mods active. So far I'm immensely enjoying the coal processing part while the HiTech is pretty lackluster. The first gives you plenty of alternative options while the latter feels extremely limiting and forces you into very narrow production lines. I don't mind the complexity as much as the awkwardness of some of these recipes. They often require arbitrary ingredients with little to no substitutes and create artificial bottlenecks due to their byproducts or high material requirements. Ferrite, Fiberboard and Etching Solution are good examples. Also science tier requirements are all over the place, some lower tier technologies are hidden behind higher ones while some are accessible but useless because they unlock things that require higher tier science to be manufactured.

I'd like to highlight this by presenting the problem that I'm currently working on and that I can't seem to solve:
After reaching cyan science I tried to calculate the cost of producing bots. The first thing I noticed is that most ingredients are on green or cyan science tier, with the exception of the Paramagnetic Material. That for some reason needs Production Science, and getting that required even more weird materials. But that's not even the worst problem here. Paramagnetic Material also needs 25 myoglobin each and that requires 125 meat and 625 cyanic acid. Said meat can only be gained from zipirs and cyanic acid only comes from urea. The buildings and recipes involved work painstakingly slow. Add that together and you will have to pave most of your base with the basic resource buildings. Even with the highest production modules it still takes over 5000 fawogae plantations to produce one bot per second. That's a 433x433 tile area just for planting down the farms. Then you still have to supply them with all that coke, stone, phosphate, fiber and all the other additional materials.

I understand that meat is a side product of nylon production, but the amounts needed are still way too high. You also only have access to the first production modules until blue circuits, that would ramp up the cost even more. When you compare that to the minuscule amounts of non-myoglobin materials needed it just seems like a huge balancing oversight to me. And this is not just logistic bots. It feels to me that HiTech sacrifices way too much gameplay value to resemble some form of realism. And while I appreciate the quality of added complexity(many realistic materials and factories) I don't understand the quantity(thousands of inefficient buildings and recipes) of it. Am I missing something or is it supposed to work like that?

Well..that´s a hella of feedback

I think your some of your points are valid. I disagree with arbitrary ingredients...all recipes are based on real stuff in SOME level to not destroy the game. Last mod in that suit people complained a lot about the "one ingredient used in only one recipe"-thing, fortunately, when doing my research to make pyHT, lots of them got new uses.

Lots of materials, like you mentioned "meat" and "cyanic acid" have planned other recipes, but for pyAL for example or even pyAE. The idea is with each mod of this suite, we can get more ways to get materials important in other mod. For example, we are currently working on pyRO which will bring a lot of other ways to get the basic metals and mineral resources.

Fawogae got balances to allow better yields in the recent updates, you can use fiber and fertilizer to increase the production too. Updates in resources from life forms will come with pyAL.

I think pyHT will get more and more interesting and nice to play as the other mods get developed.


Thanks Raphaello too.

[Raphaello]

I disagree with arbitrary ingredients...all recipes are based on real stuff in SOME level to not destroy the game. Last mod in that suit people complained a lot about the "one ingredient used in only one recipe"-thing, fortunately, when doing my research to make pyHT, lots of them got new uses.

hmmm, is there a real world equivalent for blood meal used in production of nylon?
Looking forward to the rest of the mods, hope it will be possible to go through their combined complexity

[pyanodon]

hmmm, is there a real world equivalent for blood meal used in production of nylon?
Looking forward to the rest of the mods, hope it will be possible to go through their combined complexity

Yes...we can catalyst some aromatics with ammonia and cobalt in a "medium" chain of reactions.

[immortal_sniper1]

well regarding blood it is probably the most used part of a poor zipir u need it for nylon that u need a lot off and for fertilizer if i remember correctly
also shouldnt there be anothere non zipir nylon chain a process that uses something like aromatica cumenne benzene tall oil ammonia methatne or some other more available materials ?

[immortal_sniper1]

also py why not include arecepy for ceramics that includes rich clay the other one is painfully slow

[aklesey1]

Redmew multiplayer Py+Bob base after 433 hours

Rare earth processing

phosphine gas and phosphoric acid production

raw wood production (50/s)

electronics production

Good very good

People whio can show to me ur nylon production? I want to watch for nylon - i'm spending tons of fawogae substrate with tons of coke to get small count of blood for blood meal and i need MORE blood for fertilizer!
Its looks like 8 zipir artifical reefs can't support 2 automated factories may be it 2 additional zipir reefs

I can say that the production of nylon is a real headache
And just look where we need nylon
1) Nylon parts
2) Kevlar
3) Diode
4) Transistor
5) Fiberglass
6) Advanced coating
7) And more and more and more

I think 30 blood from 1 corpse is some low may be we need 35 blood?

One important note - I categorically don't accept methods of ventilation of gases and burning of garbage (like with zipir rendering) - I believe that if we still have residual resources they need either to store or to look for a place where to apply them, and of course all of the contained use, too

[Mella]

Will there be a development of the idea of fertilizer in future mods? May be not with blood -it'll be interesting to see alternative recipe, of course it must be opened much later than traditional recipe

[pyanodon]

Next update nylon, will get some attention. As well as ammonia.

Fertilizer is something for pyAL