[1.0] Sea Block Pack 0.4.10

[NeptuneJr2]

I feel like some of the liquid fuel values are off, especially for fuel oil. x1 unit of fuel oil has a fuel value of 1.25 MW. It takes x25 units of fuel oil to make x1 solid fuel, or 31.25 MW worth of fuel oil. 1 solid fuel has a fuel value of 25 MW, which is a 6.25 MW loss from the raw value of the fuel oil, not even considering the x0.5 charcoal required. This seems a bit weird.

Additionally, the boilers/generators are weird.

With 12 units of fuel oil, or a raw value of 15 MW you will get,

5.7 MW in Bob's Oil Burning Generator MK1 at 38% efficiency
8.1 MW in Bob's Oil Burning Generator MK2 at 54% efficiency
10.2 MW in Bob's Oil Burning Generator MK3 at 68% efficiency
10.8 MW in KS Power's Oil Boiler at 72% efficiency
Just over 14.8 MW in KS Power's Diesel Generator at just over 98% efficiency
Turned into enriched fuel, 32 MW in Bob's Boiler MK4 at ~213% efficiency (MK1, 20 MW at ~133%, MK2, 24 MW at 160%, MK3, 28 MW at ~186%.)
Turned into Solid fuel, 9.6 MW in Bob's Boiler MK4 at 64% efficiency (MK1, 6 MW at 40%, MK2, 7.2 at 48%, MK3, 8.4 MW at 56%.)

Note: None of these take into account power needed for processing, or the charcoal for solid fuel. Efficiencies are calculated by dividing the energy produced by the boiler/generator by the raw energy value of the 12 liquid fuel, 15 MW.

From this math, I see a few things. First, solid fuel seems quite bad to use. This does not really make sense. I also see that enriched fuel is somewhat over powered. This is locked behind blue science though. The KS power oil boiler also seems very powerful. It only requires red and green science, and is more efficient than the most advanced Bob's Oil burning generator, and that requires red green blue and purple sciences. The diesel generator is pretty much 100% efficiency, which could be considered too powerful. It is locked behind purple/blue science and all of the Bob's Oil Burning Generators research, so it is hard to get, but is very cheap to produce. Also going from 68% to almost 100% efficiency is quite a large jump, and no other boilers or generators in Bobs mods have above a 80% efficiency. The 100% efficiency feels out of place.

That is just my 2 cents on power generation with liquids. I feel that some stuff needs too be fixed, especially with the solid fuel and the KS Power's oil boiler. Nothing game breaking, but I just wanted to figure this out, as I am trying to make power with angels farming and vegetable oil. I also know that someone had asked about this too. If some of this doesn't make sense, something is wrong or you are wondering how I got my numbers, tell me.

Thanks for humoring my rambling!

[talchas]

Yeah, that looks about right compared to what I calculated. The only downside of the KS boiler is that using it is a bit of a pain, since it doesn't do water pass-through (and it's 165 steam so you need a lot of them/T1 engines). The place I've found solid fuel useful is charcoal -> syn gas -> solid fuel (also at blue science), which is a similarly big leap over charcoal -> pellet in terms of charcoal -> MW for wood/arboretum-based power.

[talchas]

Also liquid fuel is an exception to the "angel's/bob's fluids/extra-intermediaries can't be productivitied" for some reason (that I assume has nothing to do with seablock, but it's another way that the enriched block is a massive improvement.

[OmegaZone]

Is there a way to get reinforced concreate block in sea block. I have all bobs and all angel's recipe item is present for only two recipies, but I cannot make it.

[hewhoispale]

Is there a way to get reinforced concreate block in sea block. I have all bobs and all angel's recipe item is present for only two recipies, but I cannot make it.

There is. I made some just last night. It's made in an assemble machine 2 or higher from liquid concrete and, I believe, steel.

[dienes]

Does mining productivity research do anything in seablock?

[ukezi]

Does mining productivity research do anything in seablock?

Do you do any mining? So no.

[Riktol]

Does mining productivity research do anything in seablock?

I mean you could modify the map to include an ore patch so that it was useful to you, but other than that no.
Personally I would prefer if some of the completely useless things were removed.

[robot797]

hey guys i have a problem
i cant make chrome
it looks like it is disabled
and i kind of need it for the black circuits (dont know there in game name)

[NeptuneJr2]

Robot797, here is you answer.

How do I get chrome? It is needed for processing units, and the only way to get it is from sorting ferrous crystals. These ferrous crystals need ferrous anode sludge, which needs cupric chloride solution (easy to get) and Ferrous essence. Ferrous essence requires ferrous solution, and the only way to acquire that is from a ferrous solution barrel, so there is no way. This is the only path I was able to find in FNEI to produce chrome. Is this a bug?

Ferrous Solution is unlocked by Electro Refining, and is made in a Leaching Plant, which is unlocked by Chemical Refining.
You'll need Ferrous Ore Dust, Saphirite, Jivolite and Rubyte Crystals, and Sulphuric Acid


There is a bug in that FNEI, for whatever reason, doesn't show this recipe. Similarly, HelMod thinks this recipe is done in an Assembling Machine Mk1, and nothing else.

[mrvn]

Does mining productivity research do anything in seablock?

I mean you could modify the map to include an ore patch so that it was useful to you, but other than that no.
Personally I would prefer if some of the completely useless things were removed.

Mining productivity could be changed to crystalization productivity instead.

[mexmer]

Does mining productivity research do anything in seablock?

I mean you could modify the map to include an ore patch so that it was useful to you, but other than that no.
Personally I would prefer if some of the completely useless things were removed.

Mining productivity could be changed to crystalization productivity instead.

i don't think, there is such technology, that would require new tree, and ... well i'm not even sure it's possible to do such modification on process that is made in "factory".
if it was possible, there will be already fluid productivity or other stuff researches.

you can put productivity modules into factories (or setup beacon), so there is not need for such thing.

but if we say, it is needed, what exactly would crystalization productivity do? think about how that process works and scaling and such. increasing ratio will work only for items, that have bellow 100% certainity of output. increasing output count, can be done only in whole numbers, no decimals, so how exactly it will scale?

tbh. i aggree that mining productivity can be (and should be) disabled from technology tree, it doesn't unlock anything, and neither adds anything to gameplay with seablock. you can use it only as resource sink (but why would you want to sink science packs in first place)

[mrvn]

It would make crystalization more productive just like it does in miners. A 2% bonus means that for every 50 recipe cycles you get one free. Meaning more ores.

[mexmer]

It would make crystalization more productive just like it does in miners. A 2% bonus means that for every 50 recipe cycles you get one free. Meaning more ores.

i asked how it would work, not what effect would be.

i'm asking because i want to know your idea of "mechanics" behind this.

you need to understand, that crystalization is not like mining.

mining just "extracts" from ore field, and mining bonuses apply directly to miner class entities. (if there will be "pumping productivity" possible, they you might see similar effect on oil/water pumps).

crystalization is manufacturing process, you have some input, and get some output. i'm not aware of any mechanics that allows bonuses for specific class of crafting machines. if there was, then it would be possible to make mods for that.

so again, i'm asking you, how it will work ... you can make suggestion out of that, and modders will most likely be happy, if it gets implemented.

[Arch666Angel]

You could just run a script that on a specific research will replace a recipe x1 with the new unlocked x2 which is 2% better. That's what zelos does in his omni suite of mods.

[mrvn]

You could just run a script that on a specific research will replace a recipe x1 with the new unlocked x2 which is 2% better. That's what zelos does in his omni suite of mods.

That sounds hacked together.

I would rather make a feature request so bonuses can be added to the crystalizer entity (or pumpjacks or whatever) the same way it can be done with miners. That is if that isn't already possible.

[mexmer]

You could just run a script that on a specific research will replace a recipe x1 with the new unlocked x2 which is 2% better. That's what zelos does in his omni suite of mods.

that's a hack i would rather avoid, and didn't mention it because of that.
also you will need to either create "hidden" recipes for that, or just iterate trough all respective recipes and update them to new value (which is another hack, i would rather avoid).

that's why i said, it's not supported, but as feature (for modders), might be interesting ... like you can research stack bonus for inserters or production for minner, production for factories of specified class.
basically what is needed is feature that add similar bonuses like modules, but trough research

[dienes]

I didn't really expect mining productivity to work for anything but I figured I'd ask since there's a lot that's not obvious to me.

I'm not very familiar with the innards of making factorio mods but I figure one way to make it work would be something like make the crystalizer actually a mining drill and placing one spawns a tile of infinite ore under them that uses the mineral slurry as its mining fluid (and despawns the ore when the machine is removed). Since mining drills need ore under them to be placeable you could do a shell game where the inventory item crystalizer places a dummy crafting machine that a script places the ore under, removes the dummy, and places the identical looking mining drill version on. I don't know if you can give a mining drill recipes, or if there are capabilities to override the machine's GUI and script a fake recipe selector that would swap around the ore under it or if you would need to make a different crystalizer for each recipe that spawned the relevant ore under it.

[SirJMO]

I thought I'd start anew and have some fun, but alas.
The start has messed up as mineralized water crystalization has given me 6 of each ore after 11 production cycles whilst the recipe says it outputs 1.1 and 70%.
Maybe it's a very delicate script to deal with people who mess with the mapgen, but otherwise it's a bug.
Edit: I was a fool, law of small numbers, it's a 55% chance for a double drop. A little beginner unfriendly but otherwise it's fine.

[mexmer]

I thought I'd start anew and have some fun, but alas.
The start has messed up as mineralized water crystalization has given me 6 of each ore after 11 production cycles whilst the recipe says it outputs 1.1 and 70%.
Maybe it's a very delicate script to deal with people who mess with the mapgen, but otherwise it's a bug.

this is known issue with angels mods, and is discussed in respective thread. arch666angel is looking into that and should be fixed in next release.

edit: for recipes where probability is bellow 100% numbers are correct, for recipes where probability is above 100% numbers are incorrect, because you can't have more than 100% probability (game caps to it, but numbers displayed use recipe value, not 100% cap), this is issue i was talking about.