pY HighTech Discussion

[pyanodon]

Noticing what seems to be a bit of a balance concern.

So, 2 receipes for circuits:
Basic recipe:
2 Boards =
4 Wood
10 Copper Plate
10 Copper Cable

Complex Recipe:
2 Boards =
13 Copper Plate
12 Copper Cable
10.5 Iron Plate
8.2 Coke
22 Clay

And that's not including the formica, that's just the components + the copper for the substrate.
So, why choose the complex recipe? Speed? Problem is, the amount of Auog lairs, moondrop farms and other buildings needed, the same space could probably be taken up with Mk2 Assembly Machines.

I'm all for using the complex recipe, but unless I've miscalculated it's suboptimal.
As an alternative, why not either increase the number of boards from the complex chain, or raise the raw materials and drop the crafting time for the basic recipe, possibly even both. Quicker crafts but less boards for the materials used would make it an ok recipe to use at the start, but with better output from the complex chain you're encouraged to swap over.

Or if I've completely missed something, let me know. Aside from that, enjoying the mod a lot.

Thanks, will take that into consideration. Another thing is some of the ingredients for the comolex recipe will be needed in another advanced recipes, so if you gonna need to make chains for them. Why not use the complex recipe too?

[Vetrosian]

Thanks, will take that into consideration. Another thing is some of the ingredients for the comolex recipe will be needed in another advanced recipes, so if you gonna need to make chains for them. Why not use the complex recipe too?

Good point, haven't got that far yet so hadn't even considered that.
Also, I was comparing experiences with a friend who's playing with High Tech + Bob's, looks like the balance of resources is better in bobs since a lot of the extra material costs are coming from the inductors etc. and those need to be made regardless of how you make the substrate.

[pyanodon]

Thanks, will take that into consideration. Another thing is some of the ingredients for the comolex recipe will be needed in another advanced recipes, so if you gonna need to make chains for them. Why not use the complex recipe too?

Good point, haven't got that far yet so hadn't even considered that.
Also, I was comparing experiences with a friend who's playing with High Tech + Bob's, looks like the balance of resources is better in bobs since a lot of the extra material costs are coming from the inductors etc. and those need to be made regardless of how you make the substrate.

Adding bobs to pySuite although fully compatible, increase the difficulty of the game in almost 3X. If he is playing with bobs, he will really need these basic components to craft the bob´s robot brains and modules.

[rx7325]

pyanodon i have a question
did you or did you not say on this forum we will have some circuit boards to begin with?
also it take's like 25 seconds to make 1 circuit

Yes i said, but we changed. So face that long tedious recipes as starter recipes. Soon you will be able to unlock and build a chain to produce more

bit much no? having any hand craft recipes over 10 seconds seems too much to me. Who wants to wait minutes to craft a few items to begin placing the initial infrastructure.

I think a new itermediate recipe could also solve this issue.
Something that would be unlockable with tier 1 techs and would use some of those basic electronic components (resistor, etc.) but a little bit expensively (like 2x).
So it would need some infrastructure and be semi-automatic too.

[aklesey1]

One idea about steam production - why not to add electric boiler? - i'm spanding tons of coal and another fuel to produce steam for some recipes

[Patrick]

Just FYI, but the mod portal, the mod description in-game, and your announcement thread viewtopic.php?f=219&t=58868 do not list PyFE as a dependency. Only the beginning of this thread does.

[pyanodon]

Just FYI, but the mod portal, the mod description in-game, and your announcement thread viewtopic.php?f=219&t=58868 do not list PyFE as a dependency. Only the beginning of this thread does.

thanks!

[kipplaster]

Hello,

I realy enjoy your Mods an have a question:
How can I produce Nylon without cheating?
In the game the 'Mixer' is described as the 'factory' to produce Nylon.
I need 10 'Prozessoren' (CPUs) to build the Mixer, but to research this the Science Pack 3 has to be enabeled which is not possible without cheatng in my oppinion ...

Kind Regards Kippie

[pyanodon]

Hello,

I realy enjoy your Mods an have a question:
How can I produce Nylon without cheating?
In the game the 'Mixer' is described as the 'factory' to produce Nylon.
I need 10 'Prozessoren' (CPUs) to build the Mixer, but to research this the Science Pack 3 has to be enabeled which is not possible without cheatng in my oppinion ...

Kind Regards Kippie

thanks for the report, will be fixed in the next release

[pyanodon]

Mod updated. Should fix several deadlocks and such.

[Shorkan]

I think the nylon part is not really fixed, you set the Mixer to circuit board 2 but you need nylon parts for printed circuit substrate 2 and the nylon parts you can only make from nylon. So the Mixer need to have circuit board 1 in the recipe or the recipe for the printed circuit substarte 2 need somethin other then nylon parts. But i only checked it in What is it really used for? because i don't have started the circuit board 2 chain yet, its my next goal.

[pyanodon]

I think the nylon part is not really fixed, you set the Mixer to circuit board 2 but you need nylon parts for printed circuit substrate 2 and the nylon parts you can only make from nylon. So the Mixer need to have circuit board 1 in the recipe or the recipe for the printed circuit substarte 2 need somethin other then nylon parts. But i only checked it in What is it really used for? because i don't have started the circuit board 2 chain yet, its my next goal.

you-re right. Should be working now. Please update.

[npuldon]

Did you reduce the speed for the less complex circuit board 1 recipe? 25s is insufferable. The game just becomes an unnecessary long waiting game where the only bottleneck of all progress is waiting 500+ seconds to craft soil extractors, then red planters, then other shit before I even get the automation tech. This is primaryly because of the long circuit board crafting times and the fact that some recipes in Py mods take 3-10 of them (25s*10=250s -->~6 minutes+ of waiting doing nothing). I don't see the point. I am B-ling for automation but it takes forever due to long wait times.

If the only reason to do this is to incentivize me to automate stuff I don't think it is working properly. I'm incentized because the game is about automation. By the time you get to playing these types of mods you have already appreciated the post-burner phase of the game. These recipe times create a period prior to completing the automation tech (which takes quite a while to get to with Py Mods) where most of my time from game start is just waiting. I am playing an ABPy suite. I think after automation things will be better but i can imagine I would need 40 assembling machines just to match my speed of construction before I can get to the complex substrate recipe. Limiting the circuit boards to a 10 recipe times seems better but still rough since you can't automate it (like you can processed wood) before automation tech. Still 10 seconds would be A LOT better than 25s.

[Shorkan]

I think you need too wait until a mod maker will make a faster start for pymod. But can you not combine the waiting time with raw wood hunting? For me its worked out, but i play slow so maybe this is the ground while it bother me not so much. Yeah automation 2 will help good out, is one of the first research i do. For me without bob, two of them worked but i think you will need more. Automation 2 and coal processing 1 are the most needed research at the beginning, no more wood hunting and long handcrafting.

But in pymod i feel all is slow, you always need so much materials for the recipes that you make only slow progress and with that i think the slow beginning fits the mod good.

[npuldon]

I think you need too wait until a mod maker will make a faster start for pymod. But can you not combine the waiting time with raw wood hunting? For me its worked out, but i play slow so maybe this is the ground while it bother me not so much. Yeah automation 2 will help good out, is one of the first research i do. For me without bob, two of them worked but i think you will need more. Automation 2 and coal processing 1 are the most needed research at the beginning, no more wood hunting and long handcrafting.

But in pymod i feel all is slow, you always need so much materials for the recipes that you make only slow progress and with that i think the slow beginning fits the mod good.

I can not combine wait times because I start with 150 fusion bots that gather 2k raw wood for me from forrests in <10 seconds. Starting construction bots are pretty necessary for me these days since without them the game is very tedious IMO. Design speed increases -->fun density increases. Take 20 minutes to chop trees or delete a big design is not fun, hence 150 fusion construction bots at game start. The rest of the mod is not really slow for me since I can just make more machines if I need more throughput. For instance with the mushroom farms, the soil extractors, and the washing machine. They are all very slow but if you make 20-40 of them each it's not too bad. Just takes a lot of room. I too wish they weren't so slow. Not sure why we need 0.1 crafting speed on these machines or 10+s recipe times. The slow speeds do not increase the enjoyment.

[Shorkan]

Think i found another deadlock with circuit board 2 chain.

We need P doped Silicon for transistor , diode and microchip, but P doped Silicon needs zinc acetate. Zinc acetate will be unlocked with advanced electronics. But advanced electronics is a science pack 3 research and this needs circuit board 2. Zinc acetate is made from acetic acid and this too is unlocked with advanced electronics.

[pyanodon]

Think i found another deadlock with circuit board 2 chain.

We need P doped Silicon for transistor , diode and microchip, but P doped Silicon needs zinc acetate. Zinc acetate will be unlocked with advanced electronics. But advanced electronics is a science pack 3 research and this needs circuit board 2. Zinc acetate is made from acetic acid and this too is unlocked with advanced electronics.

Do you need circuit board 2 to make science pack 3?

[Shorkan]

Without bob Science Pack 3 needs:
10x Iron plate
8x Copper Cable
1x Optical Fiber
2x Circuit Board 2.

Edit:
So i looked in my first save, because it is with bob and i see it has the same deadlock. Science Pack 3 needs Circuit Board 2. Thats means that the circuit board 2 should may be be printed circuit substrate 2 in the recipe.

[pyanodon]

Without bob Science Pack 3 needs:
10x Iron plate
8x Copper Cable
1x Optical Fiber
2x Circuit Board 2.

Edit:
So i looked in my first save, because it is with bob and i see it has the same deadlock. Science Pack 3 needs Circuit Board 2. Thats means that the circuit board 2 should may be be printed circuit substrate 2 in the recipe.

Will take a look when i have time

[Shorkan]

Okey. I only made some lists in excel too know how too build the chain, so i'm not near the deadlocks yet. So i have plenty things too build befor i reach them. I give you on last information about it, molybdenite ore need science pack 3 too. So zinc acetate and molybden ore, are so far i see, the only things on the circuit board 2 chain that needs science pack 3.