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[bobingabout]

There's not much I can do about it right now since I'm at work at the moment.

It's all good, mistakes happen. Angel stated that later tonight he'll be patching his mods to allow hand crushing of bobmonium, which will resolve the issue. Thanks for the response, and thanks for the awesome mods!

I think the fix I'm going for will be to make the lab cost the basic transport belt instead of yellow, so you can craft it even when you can't make yellow belts, for whatever reason.

[Asanda_Nima]

Hio Bob,

There seems to be a mixup with the red inserter.
I’m using the miniloader mod by Therax. He recently adjusted his mod to use your overhauled inserters.
But for some reason the recipe for the red miniloader want a long handed inserter instead of the red inserter.
He said that’s something in your mod. Because of this:

Code: Select all

/c game.print(game.item_prototypes["red-inserter"].localised_name[1])
"entity-name.long-handed-inserter"

All other miniloader work fine, it’s just the red version that is not working.


Regards
Asanda

[bobingabout]

Hio Bob,

There seems to be a mixup with the red inserter.
I’m using the miniloader mod by Therax. He recently adjusted his mod to use your overhauled inserters.
But for some reason the recipe for the red miniloader want a long handed inserter instead of the red inserter.
He said that’s something in your mod. Because of this:

Code: Select all

/c game.print(game.item_prototypes["red-inserter"].localised_name[1])
"entity-name.long-handed-inserter"

All other miniloader work fine, it’s just the red version that is not working.


Regards
Asanda

He might need to update again. I originally changed it so that you don't get long-handed-inserter and get red-inserter instead, but people complained that it broke compatibillity with mods that already use long-handed-inserter as an ingredient.
the very next day I released a fix so that the item is long-handed-inserter again.
If he changed any recipes to use my new "red-inserter" item, he'll need to change it to use "long-handed-inserter" instead.

I know, it will be confusing because the entity red-inserter is built from item long-handed-inserter, but I did it this way for maximum compatibillity with existing mods.

[danyax]

Hi Bob,

I wonder what is the practical difference between Pumps MK1-MK4? I did a lot of experiments with fluid pumping and all of them produce exactly the same results regardless of pump type. Even is the simplest test "storage tank - pump - storage tank" all pumps have exactly the same throughoutput.

[Therax]

Would it be possible for bobinserters to raise a custom event when it adjust inserter pickup and drop points? It's come up that users can use the adjustments for miniloaders, since an inserter is the selectable entity (to allow circuit control), and I'd like to be able to make sure that all the inserters in a miniloader remain in sync.

[bobingabout]

Would it be possible for bobinserters to raise a custom event when it adjust inserter pickup and drop points? It's come up that users can use the adjustments for miniloaders, since an inserter is the selectable entity (to allow circuit control), and I'd like to be able to make sure that all the inserters in a miniloader remain in sync.

Raising an event would... although be possible, wouldn't be easy.

A better result would be to block being able to use the GUI on those inserters in the first place...

I'm thinking of 2 possibilities here.
1. I write in an exclusions list (perhaps a remote call, where other mods can add to it. would need to be saved in global) and if you attempt to use a hotkey(including opening the menu) or override on an inserter on this list, it gets ignored.
2. my mod include a loop in data-updates that sets inserter.allow_custom_vectors = true on all inserters. Just, hard sets it on all of them, no exceptions. There isn't currently any check to see if inserters are allowed to have their hands moved or not, so I would need to add that in. And as things currently stand, you'd need to set this to false in the data-final-fixes stage. Alternatively I could just limit the inserters you can edit to those that appear in my own mod, but I didn't want to limit my mod to base and my own inserters. I could just leave if you are allowed to edit or not up to a mod owner to set it or not on their own inserters.

Though, I guess I need to ask, you asked for an event trigger, again, possible, I guess, but why did you want a event trigger? I assume the mini loader is a compound entity, and you might want to change something else to match the change?

[Therax]

Raising an event would... although be possible, wouldn't be easy.

Would it be that difficult? From looking at code briefly it seems like everything goes through set_pickup_position() and set_drop_position() and so raising events in those two functions would be sufficient, but I may be missing something.

A better result would be to block being able to use the GUI on those inserters in the first place...

I'm thinking of 2 possibilities here.
1. I write in an exclusions list (perhaps a remote call, where other mods can add to it. would need to be saved in global) and if you attempt to use a hotkey(including opening the menu) or override on an inserter on this list, it gets ignored.

That would certainly work. I'm not sure what you mean by "override," though.

2. my mod include a loop in data-updates that sets inserter.allow_custom_vectors = true on all inserters. Just, hard sets it on all of them, no exceptions. There isn't currently any check to see if inserters are allowed to have their hands moved or not, so I would need to add that in. And as things currently stand, you'd need to set this to false in the data-final-fixes stage.

Miniloaders actually depend on being able to set their own custom vectors: When unloading a chest to a belt, the pickup distance is 1, and the drop distance is 0, and the reverse when transferring belt to chest.

Alternatively I could just limit the inserters you can edit to those that appear in my own mod, but I didn't want to limit my mod to base and my own inserters. I could just leave if you are allowed to edit or not up to a mod owner to set it or not on their own inserters.

I think it's really useful that bobinserters can be used with inserters added by other mods, but the blacklist sounds like a good model.

Though, I guess I need to ask, you asked for an event trigger, again, possible, I guess, but why did you want a event trigger? I assume the mini loader is a compound entity, and you might want to change something else to match the change?

Miniloaders use a minimum of 2 inserters, one for each lane of the belt when going chest to belt, although with faster belts like your purples I use up to 6 to fill the belt. With an event I could potentially keep them all in sync when a user changes pickup & drop positions. For miniloaders I don't think it makes a lot of sense, but there might be other mods that want to do something similar. A blacklist would be fine for me, but I could also use an event if it existed to reset the inserters to their original pickup & drop positions whenever bobinserters modifies them.

[steinio]

It would be easier to whitelist Bob's inserters. Blacklisting will stay behind forever.

[grossout1]

Hello good sir bob.

I have to say that your mods are what makes factorio factorio for me. Out of 1000 hours I've played factorio I've played over 900 hours with your mods, I found vanilla factorio lacking in content even before I had launched my first rocket. And my first rocket I launched with your mods.

I like it how in your mods the difficulty comes from more complex recipes, instead of just scaling production up vanilla-style. I just made a huge messy spaghetti base and launched 150 rockets with it. To tell you that I had one hell of a time doing it would be understatement. ( don't know if u care even the slightest but anyway here is a pic of it https://imgur.com/OMgyQ1N )

Anyway, only suggestion I would have would be to have some kind of end game content. It kills me little inside that I have no objective to keep on building the factory I showed, since there is really nothing worthwile left to build (as if I hadn't already got more than enough bang for the buck.. ) It would be perfect if there would be more stuff and recipes, maybe more circuit boards, more production building etc that are unlocked when rocket is launched, and from the moment you launched the rocket you'd start preparing for launching rocket mk2 or something like that

Anyway, I love your mods and I hope you keep them coming. If you have some kind of patreon I would like to know.

And btw the only real complaint I would have of your mods is the bland color of stuff, it is hypnotic watching stuff flow around on belts so it'd be nice if they got nice colors As you can see from the pic, I changed colors of circuit boards myself to look bit better

[steinio]

Hello good sir bob.

I have to say that your mods are what makes factorio factorio for me. Out of 1000 hours I've played factorio I've played over 900 hours with your mods, I found vanilla factorio lacking in content even before I had launched my first rocket. And my first rocket I launched with your mods.

I like it how in your mods the difficulty comes from more complex recipes, instead of just scaling production up vanilla-style. I just made a huge messy spaghetti base and launched 150 rockets with it. To tell you that I had one hell of a time doing it would be understatement. ( don't know if u care even the slightest but anyway here is a pic of it https://imgur.com/OMgyQ1N )

Anyway, only suggestion I would have would be to have some kind of end game content. It kills me little inside that I have no objective to keep on building the factory I showed, since there is really nothing worthwile left to build (as if I hadn't already got more than enough bang for the buck.. ) It would be perfect if there would be more stuff and recipes, maybe more circuit boards, more production building etc that are unlocked when rocket is launched, and from the moment you launched the rocket you'd start preparing for launching rocket mk2 or something like that

Anyway, I love your mods and I hope you keep them coming. If you have some kind of patreon I would like to know.

And btw the only real complaint I would have of your mods is the bland color of stuff, it is hypnotic watching stuff flow around on belts so it'd be nice if they got nice colors As you can see from the pic, I changed colors of circuit boards myself to look bit better

Try out SpaceX mod. That's rocket mk2

[bobingabout]

I am thinking maybe perhaps there could be some research that costs space science that unlocks more technology. I'm just not sure what there could be that high up in the chain right now. I also think there might be room for an even higher tier of electronics, but I'd want another metal to go along with it, and maybe battery too... you know, general advancements.
but then what would you use these new materials for?

[Light]

I feel the lack of endgame after the rocket is just a flaw of the game itself. By the time you automate rockets you've pretty much built everything necessary in the game, so adding anything further would just add a couple hours on top and nothing more.

There almost needs to be a form of New Game+ which allows you to start fresh with a new set of perks and challenges alongside a new map to explore. However, what said perks would be and what challenge would be suitable for the second playthrough is a question I can't answer.

[mrvn]

I tried the new logistics stuff with SeaBlock. Needed a small tweak to enable black belts for building science labs instead of yellow belts with the fix that science labs need black belts. But that was expected.

My experience though is that I need a lot more tin for sure. And getting tin in the first place needs quite a bit of research and infrastructure in SeaBlock. I'm fine with using black belts and avoid the tin requirement most of the time. The problem I have is that I need underground belts and splitters and they don't have a black flavour. The amount of tin needed for just the underground belts and splitters is huge.

I also noticed that when connecting a yellow underground belt to a yellow splitter with output priority connected to black belts then items sometimes go to the wrong output. The yellow underground belt simply can move items twice as fast in burst even when fed by a black belt itself.

My suggestion would be to add black underground belts and black splitters. Black underground belts should be shorter than yellow and I would suggest they cost stone bricks. You have to build the tunnel with something so it doesn't cave in.

I also noticed that yellow belts don't require black belts to build despite having enabled the option to require previous items enabled.

[RocketManChronicles]

I am thinking maybe perhaps there could be some research that costs space science that unlocks more technology. I'm just not sure what there could be that high up in the chain right now. I also think there might be room for an even higher tier of electronics, but I'd want another metal to go along with it, and maybe battery too... you know, general advancements.
but then what would you use these new materials for?

This might be a place to (1) use (overhaul) or (2) advance the "Alien Science." Your mods introduce a unique set of objectives in acquiring the various colors of artifacts to use in military purposes. The endgame with Bob's Mods reaches a point of what to use the materials for. The main problem with the current endgame is you reach a point where you use very little mined ore to create massive amounts of "stuff." Most of the advanced "stuff" you automate does not die or get destroyed, because you become too powerful. Rampant AI mod helps a little to challenge the endgame, with waves of 500+ biters swarming one point in your defenses. But it is not too much to have the entire defense rebuilt in a matter of seconds. Also at this point, all your are really spending on resources are ammunitions, science packs (infinite research), and any expanding base to up the volume more.

Suggestion (1): An overhaul to Alien Science would be to unlock the research for these sciences after acquiring Space Science. Say, have the initial Alien Science tech require the white science packs to unlock this branch of the tree. This will open up the options of the various types of ammunition after launching one rocket. This may require adjusting the damage scales of the new ammunitions to may be better than they are now. This gives a whole new objective to retool or start a new base expansion to use the new ammo types that better fight off the biters. the advantage of this suggestion is that you only have to move the branch to after Space Science and add nothing new that isn't already in the mods.

Suggestion (2): Keep the Alien Science as it is, but now with Space Science, have new technologies that use both the Orange Science packs and the Space science packs along with the Alien Science packs to unlock new 'alien' materials (made-up metals or alloys). And with these new materials, provide another tier of "stuff." Maybe one material is a better armor, another is better battery, a third could be better fusion power, maybe a new crystal to add a tier to lasers and modules (maybe modules, maybe... leads to God Modules?), etc. And with the unlocking of this next tier of technology, new Biters and Spitters may be unlocked that deal a tremendous amount of damage and are heavily armored (at least they reach the base and can actually wreck some level of destruction). Of course, if you wanted to spend more time on it, but this involves creating more stuff (I know your stance on this), but flying bugs! LOL, my imagination is running wild, but I think you get the idea.

TL:DR Anyway, I sill state again that the problem with the endgame, both vanilla and modded, is that the resource sinks late game are very limited and the objectives narrow. You can have a massive defensive wall, supplied with endless ammo, robots with repair packs, power, and science, and that is all you are gathering resources for. And once you reach the point that everything is fairly self-sufficient, the game can just run on its own without you and nothing dies. That is the problem with the endgame.

[bobingabout]

I tried the new logistics stuff with SeaBlock. Needed a small tweak to enable black belts for building science labs instead of yellow belts with the fix that science labs need black belts. But that was expected.

My experience though is that I need a lot more tin for sure. And getting tin in the first place needs quite a bit of research and infrastructure in SeaBlock. I'm fine with using black belts and avoid the tin requirement most of the time. The problem I have is that I need underground belts and splitters and they don't have a black flavour. The amount of tin needed for just the underground belts and splitters is huge.

I also noticed that when connecting a yellow underground belt to a yellow splitter with output priority connected to black belts then items sometimes go to the wrong output. The yellow underground belt simply can move items twice as fast in burst even when fed by a black belt itself.

My suggestion would be to add black underground belts and black splitters. Black underground belts should be shorter than yellow and I would suggest they cost stone bricks. You have to build the tunnel with something so it doesn't cave in.

I also noticed that yellow belts don't require black belts to build despite having enabled the option to require previous items enabled.

Are you sure you're using the absolute most recent version? I'm sure at the very least the lab should already require black belts instead of yellow. I also remember making the change to yellow belt did cost a black belt, but not sure if I released it or not.

I'll consider black UGbelts and splitter, ideally this should still be locked behind a research wall though, like yellows were. (also considering actually putting yellow belt on logistic 1 research)

[HOSH]

I am thinking maybe perhaps there could be some research that costs space science that unlocks more technology. I'm just not sure what there could be that high up in the chain right now. I also think there might be room for an even higher tier of electronics, but I'd want another metal to go along with it, and maybe battery too... you know, general advancements.
but then what would you use these new materials for?

My suggestion for this is based on I like the premise of the Space Extension (SpaceX) mod. Maybe make a Space Extension Bob version. I hate to say it but it would probably be best to just copy his work, if he approves it, that way if there are issues you can balance it like you do and work on it.

And if you wanted to add other materials, batteries, or processing units to go along with the higher tiers it would make since it. I mean we are currently working on fusion and quantum computers, we have carbon nano-tube development, further battery research, and other space research going on. May want to reach some and dip the toes in early Star Trek like stuff for reference.

SpaceX just has not been implemented in 0.16 using bobs items yet, as there was a compatibility mod that just changed the items required in 0.15, but the individual has yet to update to 0.16 that I can find. It seems that quite a few others are using this mod as well with bobs. Plus in the forum the SpaceX author stated that he was not interested in updating it for bobs, as he does not play bobs.

I started on the space extension research in my 0.14 game and got part the way in, but liked the items that came out in 0.15/0.16 game so we scrapped it and started over in 0.16. It just looks a little easy as it is still using vanilla tier items while using your mod at this point, just my thoughts, but also could be interesting direction to go.

[RocketManChronicles]

Bob, can you check into the production times of the batteries? It seems the vanilla battery is 5 seconds, the lithium-ion and silver-zinc batteries are 0.5 seconds.

[bobingabout]

Bob, can you check into the production times of the batteries? It seems the vanilla battery is 5 seconds, the lithium-ion and silver-zinc batteries are 0.5 seconds.

no, that's fixed already

Code: Select all

    type = "recipe",
    name = "lithium-ion-battery",
    energy_required = 5,

You are using the absolute latest version of the 0.16 mods, right?

[RocketManChronicles]

Bob, can you check into the production times of the batteries? It seems the vanilla battery is 5 seconds, the lithium-ion and silver-zinc batteries are 0.5 seconds.

no, that's fixed already

Code: Select all

    type = "recipe",
    name = "lithium-ion-battery",
    energy_required = 5,

You are using the absolute latest version of the 0.16 mods, right?

Yes sir. Just updated them this morning.

[bobingabout]

oh, I see what the issue is
I have this:

Code: Select all

  {
    type = "recipe",
    name = "lithium-ion-battery",
    category = "crafting",
    energy_required = 5,
    normal = 
    {
      enabled = false,
      ingredients =
      {
        {"lithium-perchlorate", 2},
        {"lithium-cobalt-oxide", 1},
        {"carbon", 1},
        {"plastic-bar", 1},
      },
      result = "lithium-ion-battery",
    },
    expensive = 
    {
      enabled = false,
      ingredients =
      {
        {"lithium-perchlorate", 4},
        {"lithium-cobalt-oxide", 1},
        {"carbon", 1},
        {"plastic-bar", 2},
      },
      result = "lithium-ion-battery",
    },
  },

when I should have this

Code: Select all

  {
    type = "recipe",
    name = "lithium-ion-battery",
    category = "crafting",
    normal = 
    {
      energy_required = 5,
      enabled = false,
      ingredients =
      {
        {"lithium-perchlorate", 2},
        {"lithium-cobalt-oxide", 1},
        {"carbon", 1},
        {"plastic-bar", 1},
      },
      result = "lithium-ion-battery",
    },
    expensive = 
    {
      energy_required = 5,
      enabled = false,
      ingredients =
      {
        {"lithium-perchlorate", 4},
        {"lithium-cobalt-oxide", 1},
        {"carbon", 1},
        {"plastic-bar", 2},
      },
      result = "lithium-ion-battery",
    },
  },

energy_required = 5 needs to be within the difficulty.