[1.0] Sea Block Pack 0.4.10

[D-Duff]

Thanks for the Seablock Mod. Here I go down the Factorio rabbit hole again.

Are there any benefits to the generation of Mineral Sludge from Crystal Slurry vs Mineral Slurry ?

To get 100 Mineral Sludge from Mineral Slurry, I need 10 slag & 24 Sulfuric Acid. The sulfur feedback loop seems to be self sustaining which is quite convenient.

To get 100 Mineral Sludge from Crystal Slurry, I need 10 slag to create 200 mineral water + 30 to 75 Sulfuric Acid to process the Geodes. I didn't do the math on power cost, but I got a feeling the extra washing plant infrastructure also takes more power.

I was pretty proud of my Crystal Slurry generation pipeline until I read the fine prints, too bad I had to pull the plug on it until I'm ready to produce gem stones. I guess the only way to scale up Mineral Sludge production is with Electrolyzers, lots and lots of Electrolyzers !

If you crush the geodes into dust first, you get 50/50 crushed stone -> mineralized water. You don't need slag at all.

It is self sustained like this:
...snip...

(I later used the gas that I burn off in this old screenshot to the left, to produce more sulfuric acid).

IIRC this setup runs at 25 KJ per unit of sludge compared to 36 KJ from standard electrolysers -> slag.

Ah ha ! I calculated that I would get more sludge from processing Geodes directly, discarding the fact that those extra crushed stones would create the mineralized water I needed.

I like the micro build you made. I'm not sure why you need 2 independent sushi belts or why you use filter inserters on the crushers, but it scales really well.

[mrvn]

If you crush the geodes into dust first, you get 50/50 crushed stone -> mineralized water. You don't need slag at all.

It is self sustained like this:


(I later used the gas that I burn off in this old screenshot to the left, to produce more sulfuric acid).

IIRC this setup runs at 25 KJ per unit of sludge compared to 36 KJ from standard electrolysers -> slag.

1) Why don't you put the geodes from the washing plant directly onto the loop? Seems like a waste of power to have that extra step. Save 9 fast inserters.

2) Filter inserters to insert into the ore crushers?

3) if the ratios produced by the ore crushers fits the 1:2 ratio of the liquifiers then you don't need 2 output belts and filter inserters. Well, maybe still 2 belts (or red) for the throughput but mixed belts should work fine too.

And if the ratio is wrong one of the two belts will fill up over time and then block everything. So I guess the ratio is perfect.

4) If you make a row of 3 ore crushes, a row of 3 liquifiers (mineralized water in the middle) and again a row of 3 ore crushers you should be able to insert from ore crushers into liquifiers directly. Saves 6 more fast inserters.

So a total of 15 fast inserters could be saved. That should have some effect on energy per unit of sludge not to mention setup costs.

[Megatron]

If you crush the geodes into dust first, you get 50/50 crushed stone -> mineralized water. You don't need slag at all.

It is self sustained like this:


(I later used the gas that I burn off in this old screenshot to the left, to produce more sulfuric acid).

IIRC this setup runs at 25 KJ per unit of sludge compared to 36 KJ from standard electrolysers -> slag.

1) Why don't you put the geodes from the washing plant directly onto the loop? Seems like a waste of power to have that extra step. Save 9 fast inserters.

2) Filter inserters to insert into the ore crushers?

3) if the ratios produced by the ore crushers fits the 1:2 ratio of the liquifiers then you don't need 2 output belts and filter inserters. Well, maybe still 2 belts (or red) for the throughput but mixed belts should work fine too.

And if the ratio is wrong one of the two belts will fill up over time and then block everything. So I guess the ratio is perfect.

4) If you make a row of 3 ore crushes, a row of 3 liquifiers (mineralized water in the middle) and again a row of 3 ore crushers you should be able to insert from ore crushers into liquifiers directly. Saves 6 more fast inserters.

So a total of 15 fast inserters could be saved. That should have some effect on energy per unit of sludge not to mention setup costs.

It is definitely more efficent to use geodes instead of slag, though you need a lot of mineralized water. But with geodes, the sulfuric waste -> acid cycle does not work anymore, because you need way more acid than can be recovered from the waste water. And since making sulfur from coal no longer works, it's kinda annoying to produce.

[Megatron]

This can provide over 40MW of power and produce 60MJ worth of fuel per second (boilers 3, and engines 2). I'm curious if someone came up with something more efficient and somewhat OCD friendly.

[Theaisa]

2) Filter inserters to insert into the ore crushers?

Leftover from when I was toying around with builds I, too, realized they were unnecessary when I expanded the setup.


As for the rest.. good points! I have no idea why I didn't consider outputting directly onto the sushi belt.

I don't actually know if the crushed stone fits the ratio perfectly, but they don't have to as long as the liquifier can keep up. I use any extra mineralized water to power my green algae production.

[Zephyrinius]

It is definitely more efficent to use geodes instead of slag, though you need a lot of mineralized water. But with geodes, the sulfuric waste -> acid cycle does not work anymore, because you need way more acid than can be recovered from the waste water. And since making sulfur from coal no longer works, it's kinda annoying to produce.

Actually, if you use coal filtering, generation of mineral sludge from washing for geodes is self-sufficient, producing its own sulfuric acid and mineralized water; it even produces a tiny bit of excess. Here's a (large) setup that is entirely self-sufficient and is slowly building a stockpile of sulfur as well. The only inputs are charcoal, water, and viscous mud water (the latter two from the pumps).

A few things to note:

- The sulfur you get from waste water is not quite enough; you also need to convert the hydrogen sulfide gas (from the first washing step) to sulfur.
- The buildings are all highest tier except for the chem plants which are Mk3. You can set this up much earlier, but the ratios would be different.
- I'm also doing a little bit of slag -> sludge, just because the geode setup needs oxygen and dirt water electrolysis provides that. You could instead get the oxygen from air compressors, but the slag way provides additional sludge.
- I have 3 liquifiers that do direct processing of geodes, but they only turn on when there is a sufficient backlog of mineralized water. This is because direct geode processing (to slurry) consumes mineralized water and doesn't produce it.

[Zephyrinius]

For the new Angels Bioprocessing one needs to collect some gardens, which one can find on some islands. Unfortunately all islands seem to be desert so I only have found desert gardens so far. There are also temperate and swamp gardens which don't grow in the desert.

I thought the same as you, but after going further from the spawn I found temperate and swamp gardens. They're very rare, but they exist -- and once you get some, you can grow more seeds from those, of course.

[Theaisa]

It is definitely more efficent to use geodes instead of slag, though you need a lot of mineralized water. But with geodes, the sulfuric waste -> acid cycle does not work anymore, because you need way more acid than can be recovered from the waste water. And since making sulfur from coal no longer works, it's kinda annoying to produce.

Someone correct me if my calculations are wrong, but... this is the sulfur production from geode->sludge production:
50 sludge -> 30 sulfuric waste water -> 0.3 sulfur -> 15 Sulfur Dioxide Gas -> 12.5 Sulfuric Acid.
50 sludge requires 15 sulfuric acid, so the deficit is 2.5 per production cycle.

Producing 150 mud water also produces 5 hydrogen sulfide gas. At my best calculations, 150 mud water is somewhere around 100 sludge (probably a little above).

60 hydrogen sulfide gas and 50 oxygen can be converted into 3 sulfur at a chemical plant. Thus:
5 hydrogen sulfide gas -> 0.125 sulfur -> 6.25 sulfur dioxide gas -> 5.208 sulfuric acid.

I think the ratios are pretty much perfect for Sulfur if you reuse all the waste.

Edit: Someone got there before me

[Finndibaenn]

Here is what I came up with, based on the above screen shot.

I had some throughput issues with belts so washing plants deposit directly into chests.
as 1 chest can not be in range of all crushers, 2 filter inserters move the appropriate geodes between the 2 above chests.

the crushed geodes are deposited directly into the liquifiers (I found I needed 2 MK3 but that may be because the washing plants ran for a while while the liquifiers were stopped).

I also found crushed stone production from geodes (even adding the output from ore production) was not enough to produce the mineralized waster, so I have 2 spare elecrolyzers to produce slag (belt turns of when mineralized water > 50% which is why the belt is backed up)

[Theaisa]

Here is what I came up with, based on the above screen shot.
I had some throughput issues with belts so washing plants deposit directly into chests.
as 1 chest can not be in range of all crushers, 2 filter inserters move the appropriate geodes between the 2 above chests.

the crushed geodes are deposited directly into the liquifiers (I found I needed 2 MK3 but that may be because the washing plants ran for a while while the liquifiers were stopped).

I also found crushed stone production from geodes (even adding the output from ore production) was not enough to produce the mineralized waster, so I have 2 spare elecrolyzers to produce slag (belt turns of when mineralized water > 50% which is why the belt is backed up)

You won't need the slag if you stop burning off the hydrogen sulfide gas from the washing plant.

Like so:

[Megatron]

It is definitely more efficent to use geodes instead of slag, though you need a lot of mineralized water. But with geodes, the sulfuric waste -> acid cycle does not work anymore, because you need way more acid than can be recovered from the waste water. And since making sulfur from coal no longer works, it's kinda annoying to produce.

Someone correct me if my calculations are wrong, but... this is the sulfur production from geode->sludge production:
50 sludge -> 30 sulfuric waste water -> 0.3 sulfur -> 15 Sulfur Dioxide Gas -> 12.5 Sulfuric Acid.
50 sludge requires 15 sulfuric acid, so the deficit is 2.5 per production cycle.

Producing 150 mud water also produces 5 hydrogen sulfide gas. At my best calculations, 150 mud water is somewhere around 100 sludge (probably a little above).

60 hydrogen sulfide gas and 50 oxygen can be converted into 3 sulfur at a chemical plant. Thus:
5 hydrogen sulfide gas -> 0.125 sulfur -> 6.25 sulfur dioxide gas -> 5.208 sulfuric acid.

I think the ratios are pretty much perfect for Sulfur if you reuse all the waste.

Edit: Someone got there before me

Im not sure if I have an updated or different version, but it costs 12 sulfuric acid to make 50 slag slurry.

With slag:
12 acid -> 50 slag slurry -> 30 waste water -> 0.3 sulfur -> 15 so2 -> 12.5 acid
so, 12 acid -> 12.5 acid

and with geodes:
40 mud water (-> 1.33 H2S -> 0.0666 sulfur -> 2.777 acid) -> geodes -> 17.85 acid -> 21.6 waste -> ... -> 9 acid
so, 17.85 acid -> 11.777 acid
(the plants dont produce the same amount of every geode and not all geodes produce the same amount of crystal slurry but every recipe needs 15 acid)

I did play around with the numbers a lot, so i'm pretty sure thats right. I kinda hope though that I made a terrible mistake somewhere.

[Theaisa]

It is definitely more efficent to use geodes instead of slag, though you need a lot of mineralized water. But with geodes, the sulfuric waste -> acid cycle does not work anymore, because you need way more acid than can be recovered from the waste water. And since making sulfur from coal no longer works, it's kinda annoying to produce.

Someone correct me if my calculations are wrong, but... this is the sulfur production from geode->sludge production:
50 sludge -> 30 sulfuric waste water -> 0.3 sulfur -> 15 Sulfur Dioxide Gas -> 12.5 Sulfuric Acid.
50 sludge requires 15 sulfuric acid, so the deficit is 2.5 per production cycle.

Producing 150 mud water also produces 5 hydrogen sulfide gas. At my best calculations, 150 mud water is somewhere around 100 sludge (probably a little above).

60 hydrogen sulfide gas and 50 oxygen can be converted into 3 sulfur at a chemical plant. Thus:
5 hydrogen sulfide gas -> 0.125 sulfur -> 6.25 sulfur dioxide gas -> 5.208 sulfuric acid.

I think the ratios are pretty much perfect for Sulfur if you reuse all the waste.

Edit: Someone got there before me

Im not sure if I have an updated or different version, but it costs 12 sulfuric acid to make 50 slag slurry.

With slag:
12 acid -> 50 slag slurry -> 30 waste water -> 0.3 sulfur -> 15 so2 -> 12.5 acid
so, 12 acid -> 12.5 acid

and with geodes:
40 mud water (-> 1.33 H2S -> 0.0666 sulfur -> 2.777 acid) -> geodes -> 17.85 acid -> 21.6 waste -> ... -> 9 acid
so, 17.85 acid -> 11.777 acid
(the plants dont produce the same amount of every geode and not all geodes produce the same amount of crystal slurry but every recipe needs 15 acid)

I did play around with the numbers a lot, so i'm pretty sure thats right. I kinda hope though that I made a terrible mistake somewhere.

I don't really understand how you get your numbers. How does 17.85 acid become 9 acid?

Each cycle of 50 crystal slurry becomes 30 sulfuric waste water, without exception.

That means 15 acid:


Becomes 0.3 sulfur->15 sulfur dioxide gas->12.5 sulfuric acid.

Making 10 crystal dust requires, on average, 10 geodes (there is a bit of randomness). 10 geodes requires, on average, 2 cycles of a washing plant so 80 Heavy Mud Water. That means 2.6667 hydrogen sulfide gas->0.1333 sulfur->6.665 Sulfur Dioxide gas->5.55 Sulfuric Acid.

So every cycle of 50 mineral sludge is 15 acid->18.05 acid. I am certainly seeing an abundance of acid in my setup ?

[Megatron]

It is definitely more efficent to use geodes instead of slag, though you need a lot of mineralized water. But with geodes, the sulfuric waste -> acid cycle does not work anymore, because you need way more acid than can be recovered from the waste water. And since making sulfur from coal no longer works, it's kinda annoying to produce.

Someone correct me if my calculations are wrong, but... this is the sulfur production from geode->sludge production:
50 sludge -> 30 sulfuric waste water -> 0.3 sulfur -> 15 Sulfur Dioxide Gas -> 12.5 Sulfuric Acid.
50 sludge requires 15 sulfuric acid, so the deficit is 2.5 per production cycle.

Producing 150 mud water also produces 5 hydrogen sulfide gas. At my best calculations, 150 mud water is somewhere around 100 sludge (probably a little above).

60 hydrogen sulfide gas and 50 oxygen can be converted into 3 sulfur at a chemical plant. Thus:
5 hydrogen sulfide gas -> 0.125 sulfur -> 6.25 sulfur dioxide gas -> 5.208 sulfuric acid.

I think the ratios are pretty much perfect for Sulfur if you reuse all the waste.

Edit: Someone got there before me

Im not sure if I have an updated or different version, but it costs 12 sulfuric acid to make 50 slag slurry.

With slag:
12 acid -> 50 slag slurry -> 30 waste water -> 0.3 sulfur -> 15 so2 -> 12.5 acid
so, 12 acid -> 12.5 acid

and with geodes:
40 mud water (-> 1.33 H2S -> 0.0666 sulfur -> 2.777 acid) -> geodes -> 17.85 acid -> 21.6 waste -> ... -> 9 acid
so, 17.85 acid -> 11.777 acid
(the plants dont produce the same amount of every geode and not all geodes produce the same amount of crystal slurry but every recipe needs 15 acid)

I did play around with the numbers a lot, so i'm pretty sure thats right. I kinda hope though that I made a terrible mistake somewhere.

I don't really understand how you get your numbers. How does 17.85 acid become 9 acid?

Each cycle of 50 crystal slurry becomes 30 sulfuric waste water, without exception.

That means 15 acid:


Becomes 0.3 sulfur->15 sulfur dioxide gas->12.5 sulfuric acid.

Making 10 crystal dust requires, on average, 10 geodes (there is a bit of randomness). 10 geodes requires, on average, 2 cycles of a washing plant so 80 Heavy Mud Water. That means 2.6667 hydrogen sulfide gas->0.1333 sulfur->6.665 Sulfur Dioxide gas->5.55 Sulfuric Acid.

So every cycle of 50 mineral sludge is 15 acid->18.05 acid. I am certainly seeing an abundance of acid in my setup ?

Thats because I'm not crushing the geodes, for which I had problems with belt throughput. It costs about double the energy to make slurry directly from geodes (about 700 KJ for dust to 25 slurry , and 2000 KJ for geodes to 36 slurry), but I get like 30MJ worth of fuel from the hydrogen byproduct (making solid fuel from synthesis gas instead of coal pellets) when making the mineralized water.

I did not take into account the amount of energy needed to produce the sulfuric acid when directly converting the geodes, but it should be no more than about 200KJ, so nowhere near the 30MJ surplus.

EDIT: I did use MK3 plants and liquifiers for all of those calculations.
EDIT: Thinking about that for a minute longer, it could very well be more efficient to just make slurry from slag

[Finndibaenn]

The more I work on this geodes => sludge process the less appealing it looks like.

How many electrolyzers do you need to run to supply one filtration unit ?
1 sludge batch takes 100 mineralized water, so 10 crushed stones.

Crushing geodes gives 1/1.5/0.5/1/1/1 crushed stones (blue/cyan/green/purple/red/yellow)
washing gives 1.5/0.6/0.6/0.75/1.5/1 geode per batch
If I'm not mistaken, one washing batch should give on average 5.95 crushed and 11.9 crystal dust.
50 Crystal slurry uses 10 crystal dust.

you get back 1 crushed stone from every 50 sludge from crushing the minerals.

If filtering with coal 50 sludge takes 10 dust and 10 crushed
If filtering with ceramic 35 sludge takes 7.5 dust and 10 crushed.

Sludge from slag
If filtering with coal 50 sludge takes 5 slag (10 crushed)
If filtering with ceramic 35 sludge takes 3.75 slag (7.5 crushed).

So unless i'm mistaken when using geodes you still need 50% of the slag you would need otherwise ? Did I miss something ?

[Megatron]

The more I work on this geodes => sludge process the less appealing it looks like.

How many electrolyzers do you need to run to supply one filtration unit ?
1 sludge batch takes 100 mineralized water, so 10 crushed stones.

Crushing geodes gives 1/1.5/0.5/1/1/1 crushed stones (blue/cyan/green/purple/red/yellow)
washing gives 1.5/0.6/0.6/0.75/1.5/1 geode per batch
If I'm not mistaken, one washing batch should give on average 5.95 crushed and 11.9 crystal dust.
50 Crystal slurry uses 10 crystal dust.

you get back 1 crushed stone from every 50 sludge from crushing the minerals.

If filtering with coal 50 sludge takes 10 dust and 10 crushed
If filtering with ceramic 35 sludge takes 7.5 dust and 10 crushed.

Sludge from slag
If filtering with coal 50 sludge takes 5 slag (10 crushed)
If filtering with ceramic 35 sludge takes 3.75 slag (7.5 crushed).

So unless i'm mistaken when using geodes you still need 50% of the slag you would need otherwise ? Did I miss something ?

I played around all day and in the end I think that Theaisa is right. Apparently the most efficient way is to crush the geodes, make mineral water from the stones you get, and convert the dust into slurry. Skip the electrolyzers altogether.
No more problems with the water or the sulfuric acid. For power production I switched to vegetable oil and enriched fuel, not needing any more hydrogen, and the power output is insane.

[live22morrow]

I tried things out with an updated version of Science Cost Tweaker from viewtopic.php?f=91&t=14294&start=180#p334229. But it seems to dead end. The lab for green science requires green circuits which require resin, but resin is gated behind a green science tech.

[jonhwoods]

I played Sea Block a few months ago and ran into some issues. I plan to start a new game soon to finally get blue science, but I'd like all the tips I can get from you guys first.

• Is it possible to play with the new splitter mechanics (filter, priority)? More generally, what is the latest core version that works?
• Is it possible to use a tool like [https://bitbucket.org/Nicksaurus/forem ... 's Foreman to plan ratios and production lines? I could not manage to make that tool work, and resorted on extensive time consuming Excel sheets instead.
• Are there any "house rules" or modification to config files you recommend.

Basically, I'm wondering what is the most feature-packed and bug-free setup.

[Zephyrinius]

I tried things out with an updated version of Science Cost Tweaker from viewtopic.php?f=91&t=14294&start=180#p334229. But it seems to dead end. The lab for green science requires green circuits which require resin, but resin is gated behind a green science tech.

You don't need resin for green circuits. I'm guessing you think you need it for solder, but there is another recipe that uses alginic acid instead of solder. You get alginic acid from brown algae, which doesn't require green science.

I played Sea Block a few months ago and ran into some issues. I plan to start a new game soon to finally get blue science, but I'd like all the tips I can get from you guys first.

Is it possible to play with the new splitter mechanics (filter, priority)? More generally, what is the latest core version that works?

I'm playing with the mod pack posted in this thread and the latest experimental version of the game (0.16.22, currently; when I started this run it was 0.16.12). Everything works fine. I'm also using the SCT patch from Neemys: viewtopic.php?f=91&t=14294&start=180#p334229.

Is it possible to use a tool like [https://bitbucket.org/Nicksaurus/forem ... 's Foreman to plan ratios and production lines? I could not manage to make that tool work, and resorted on extensive time consuming Excel sheets instead.

There are a few issues for tools like that; the most important is that certain things can be produced in more than one way, so you'd need to somehow specify which recipe to use. Sometimes you need to use production lines that branch out and then merge together, which is even more problematic for an automated tool.

I ended up using https://mods.factorio.com/mod/factorio-data-exporter to export all the recipes and then writing some custom Python scripts to analyze the production chains and plan my builds.

Are there any "house rules" or modification to config files you recommend.
Basically, I'm wondering what is the most feature-packed and bug-free setup.

The only modification I've made locally is to set the stack size for iron and copper back to 200 (to match all the other ores from Bob's mods). I still haven't figured out what part of Seablock was changing those to 50; in Bob's ores they are set to 200. Not a big deal either way.

[knightofrust]

How do you get hydrogen sulfide gas from washing mud water? Is that an addition of sea block? Because in the base game (0.16) + angel's this same recipe gives only mud + heavy mud water.

[Finndibaenn]

[*] Is it possible to use a tool like [https://bitbucket.org/Nicksaurus/forem ... 's Foreman to plan ratios and production lines? I could not manage to make that tool work, and resorted on extensive time consuming Excel sheets instead.[/*]

I'm using Helmod plugin for this