[1.0] Sea Block Pack 0.4.10

[cower]

-Coal Cracking has a nice 5 Coal to 6 Coke recipe according to NEI, but the research is not available in the tree! Coke seems pretty important for midgame smelting.

I had this problem as well. It looks like Sea Block broke the Coal Cracking tech at some point, probably 0.1.9. The changelog for 0.1.10 has "+ Put coal cracking research back in its own technology". After manually upgrading, I now have the Bergius Process recipe (to make Naphtha) available.

Trainwreck: You should probably upgrade the Sea Block version included in the pack.

[Neemys]

which research queue mod have you installed so I can check the problem ?

This one: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Doomquill/research-queue v1.5.1 (latest w/ no annoying popup) Reading the notes on the mod portal, this may be a problem with research queue though. If there is a version of research queue or a similar mod that works better, please let me know.

Yeah it the mod that have a problem with bobs mod alien artifact. Reported since 6 month still no fix : https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Doomquil ... sion/13987

I made a fix myself :

research-queue_1.5.1.zip

Fixed version working with alien artifact

(58.64 KiB) Downloaded 192 times

[Mr. Tact]

Noticed my Iron and Copper ore are stacking to 50 when all the others stack to 200. I'm guessing that is normal when using Bob's and Angel's?

[mrvn]

So I've started playing Seablock and have set up a little algae farm to power some steam engines but my ratios seem to be off. Does anyone have a list of ratios for the various buildings?

My setup uses: Electrolizers (12) to produce slag, flare stacks to void the oxygen (1) and hydrogen (2), electrical ore crusher (4) to produce crushed stone, liquifiers for CO2 from wood pellets (2), mineralized water (2) and algae processing (10), algae farms (24), assembler 1 (16) for wood pellets. All this powers 8 boilers and 16 steam engines. I seem to run short on CO2 and crushed stone but long on wood pellets.

Note: Previously I made wood bricks to burn but with the Sea Block pack added to my mods the wood bricks don't seem to be fuel and conversion to coal just looses energy. So wood pellets for fuel it is. Not sure where this change comes from.

So I'm looking if anyone has assembled a comprehensive list of ratios for each pair of machines. Like how many electrolizers does it need per liquifier for mineralized water. Or how many per flare stack. How do those ratios change with mk2 farms, ...?

Most importantly: Assuming everything else close to perfect ratios how many steam engines does it need to run the setup and how many steam engines can be used to provide power to the rest of the base. I want to make this a self contained power production setup with its own internal power that sustains it and separate power production for the outside world. I've got boilers mk2 and steam engines mk2 now so I'm mostly interested in those numbers.

I'm still a bit unsure how to compute the fuel requirement and amount of steam produced per second for the boilers. Anyone have a formula for those?

[Mr. Tact]

It appears Wood Pellets are technically the most efficient. But you need Coke and Carbon for other things anyway, so doing the whole chain seems the best solution. The last step getting you 20% back...

4 Wood Pellets (48 MJ) -> 1 Wood Block (NA) -> 3 Coal (24 MJ) -> 6 Crushed Coal (NA) -> 6 Coke (30 MJ) -> 1.2 Coke Pellets (36 MJ)

Yeah, the boiler / steam engine ratios apparently only match up at the MK4 level.

[mathturtle]

It appears Wood Pellets are technically the most efficient. But you need Coke and Carbon for other things anyway, so doing the whole chain seems the best solution. The last step getting you 20% back...

4 Wood Pellets (48 MJ) -> 1 Wood Block (NA) -> 3 Coal (24 MJ) -> 6 Crushed Coal (NA) -> 6 Coke (30 MJ) -> 1.2 Coke Pellets (36 MJ)

Yeah, the boiler / steam engine ratios apparently only match up at the MK4 level.

You have the wrong ratio for Wood Pellets to blocks... 8 Pellets becomes 4 blocks, which makes it:

4 Wood Pellets (48 MJ) -> 2 Wood Block (NA) -> 6 Coal (48 MJ) -> 12 Crushed Coal (NA) -> 12 Coke (60 MJ) -> 2.4 Coke Pellets (72 MJ)

starting power plant

My version (not upgraded for Mk2 machines and not perfect ratios... just close enough and easy to build):

9 electrolyzer making slag, 3 ore crushers making crushed stone, 1 liquefier making mineralized water
3 rows of: 6 algae farm, 3 liquefiers making cellulose, 4 assembly machine making wood pellets (gets pretty close to yellow belt throughput on cellulose)
Then feed all the pellets from all 3 rows to 4 assembly machine 1 making wood blocks, 6 stone furnace for coal, 3 liquefier making CO2, 8 burner crusher crushing coal, 8 stone furnace cooking coke, (and eventually 6-8 assembly machines making coke pellets) to the boilers (you have to adjust these based on what level boiler and what fuel you are using, currently I have 10 level 2 boilers and 20 basic steam engines since I haven't researched the better engines yet).

With coke pellets, the power plant itself uses about 8-9MW to run, but can support > 15MW (I haven't hit the death spiral limit yet... and I've seen it handle 16MW for short periods)

Blueprint (hopefully I did this right): https://pastebin.com/q7gSJEWN

Useful trick

Early on when making an algae power plant you will find they are very easy to death spiral. Use your initial accumulators as a bridge (have 2 disconnected power networks overlapping the accumulators) and you can limit the power you draw from the plant by the number of accumulators you place (each accumulator will transfer up to 300kW between networks).

[Mr. Tact]

You have the wrong ratio for Wood Pellets to blocks... 8 Pellets becomes 4 blocks, which makes it:

4 Wood Pellets (48 MJ) -> 2 Wood Block (NA) -> 6 Coal (48 MJ) -> 12 Crushed Coal (NA) -> 12 Coke (60 MJ) -> 2.4 Coke Pellets (72 MJ)

You're right, I goofed. Damnit. I triple checked before posting too. So, that means getting to Coke is a gain.

[mrvn]

You have the wrong ratio for Wood Pellets to blocks... 8 Pellets becomes 4 blocks, which makes it:

4 Wood Pellets (48 MJ) -> 2 Wood Block (NA) -> 6 Coal (48 MJ) -> 12 Crushed Coal (NA) -> 12 Coke (60 MJ) -> 2.4 Coke Pellets (72 MJ)

You're right, I goofed. Damnit. I triple checked before posting too. So, that means getting to Coke is a gain.

Oh, I didn't go far enough in the chain. I saw that woor pellets == coal and stopped. Since the conversion eats energy that is actually a loss. Didn't chek that you make up for that later with coke pellets again.


As for running into a death spiral that's why I want to know how many steam engines it takes to run the algae farms and separate them from the steam engines providing power to the outside.

[hewhoispale]

Does the Mining Productivity research do anything in Seablock? I feel like it probably doesn't and it still being in the tech tree is an oversight, but am I just missing something, does it effect the sea pumps or something?

[mrvn]

Am I the only one who things that the straight ore sorting recipes that give multiple ores are a total waste to automate?

• All ores are produced from mineral slurry so I can produce them in whatever ratios I want. So there is no point of picking on recipe over another due to overabundance of one ore.
• All ore sortings give N items output for N items of ores.
• Straight ore sorting gives one slag, which can be turned back into mineral slurry, but it's essentially a loss. No point in making slag from slag.
• All ores can be created from mixed sorting with a little more research that I think is reachable without straight ore sorting (or you only need very little straight sorting where you fill the ore sorter manually).
• You need the extra refining steps for straight ore sorting anyway to balance out the ratios.
• The extra acids (so far) needed for the extra refining can be recycled. Are they a closed loop? Over produce? Under produce? Haven't checked the math yet. But as said you need them anyway to balance things.

So what am I missing? Why would one use the straight ore sorting recipes?

[jodokus31]

Am I the only one who things that the straight ore sorting recipes that give multiple ores are a total waste to automate?

• All ores are produced from mineral slurry so I can produce them in whatever ratios I want. So there is no point of picking on recipe over another due to overabundance of one ore.
• All ore sortings give N items output for N items of ores.
• Straight ore sorting gives one slag, which can be turned back into mineral slurry, but it's essentially a loss. No point in making slag from slag.
• All ores can be created from mixed sorting with a little more research that I think is reachable without straight ore sorting (or you only need very little straight sorting where you fill the ore sorter manually).
• You need the extra refining steps for straight ore sorting anyway to balance out the ratios.
• The extra acids (so far) needed for the extra refining can be recycled. Are they a closed loop? Over produce? Under produce? Haven't checked the math yet. But as said you need them anyway to balance things.

So what am I missing? Why would one use the straight ore sorting recipes?

In seablock, you need the "straight" sorting to get started with ores to proceed with the tech. F.e. gold/silver ore. In the long run straight sorting is not needed, especially because you can decide, which base ores you want.
But, if you consider how much gold ore you need to get the actual tech (blue science) for mixed sorting and on top, you need to create at least nitric and hydrochloric acid to refine the crystals needed for gold ore, you should consider to automate it. Actually its not so bad to change the sorting recipe later, if you leave space for the additional inputs.
I think, its like this IIRC (actual numbers may differ, because i cant check atm)
1 blue science <- 10 gold plates <- 10 gold ore (smelting 1) <- 60 rubyte chunks

[mrvn]

Am I the only one who things that the straight ore sorting recipes that give multiple ores are a total waste to automate?

• All ores are produced from mineral slurry so I can produce them in whatever ratios I want. So there is no point of picking on recipe over another due to overabundance of one ore.
• All ore sortings give N items output for N items of ores.
• Straight ore sorting gives one slag, which can be turned back into mineral slurry, but it's essentially a loss. No point in making slag from slag.
• All ores can be created from mixed sorting with a little more research that I think is reachable without straight ore sorting (or you only need very little straight sorting where you fill the ore sorter manually).
• You need the extra refining steps for straight ore sorting anyway to balance out the ratios.
• The extra acids (so far) needed for the extra refining can be recycled. Are they a closed loop? Over produce? Under produce? Haven't checked the math yet. But as said you need them anyway to balance things.

So what am I missing? Why would one use the straight ore sorting recipes?

In seablock, you need the "straight" sorting to get started with ores to proceed with the tech. F.e. gold/silver ore. In the long run straight sorting is not needed, especially because you can decide, which base ores you want.
But, if you consider how much gold ore you need to get the actual tech (blue science) for mixed sorting and on top, you need to create at least nitric and hydrochloric acid to refine the crystals needed for gold ore, you should consider to automate it. Actually its not so bad to change the sorting recipe later, if you leave space for the additional inputs.
I think, its like this IIRC (actual numbers may differ, because i cant check atm)
1 blue science <- 10 gold plates <- 10 gold ore (smelting 1) <- 60 rubyte chunks

Rubyte chunks take only purified water to hydro refine and produce nitric waste water. So that is easy. And I see crystalizing gold ore needs 50 blue science.

So for 50 blue science you need 3000 rubyte chunks. That fits in a single wooden chest. So I just put the sorter down and 2 chests (one in, one out) and stuff it with ore. By the time I placed the landfill for and build the automated gold smelter that will be done and I can carry the gold ore to the smelter and the rest to their respective positions. I consider anything up to a steel chest full as temporary and not worth automating fully with belts and such.

I've actually got a chunk of land set aside just for this kind of temporary stuff. By now it even has 2 LTN train stations (requester and provider) with a warehouse each. So It's easy to request 6000 rubyte chunks and then just carry them the few meter across to the sorter or put down a belt. Then when done it's just another few meters back to the provider warehouse.

[Tnarg]

Rubyte chunks take only purified water to hydro refine and produce nitric waste water. So that is easy. And I see crystalizing gold ore needs 50 blue science.

So for 50 blue science you need 3000 rubyte chunks. That fits in a single wooden chest. So I just put the sorter down and 2 chests (one in, one out) and stuff it with ore. By the time I placed the landfill for and build the automated gold smelter that will be done and I can carry the gold ore to the smelter and the rest to their respective positions. I consider anything up to a steel chest full as temporary and not worth automating fully with belts and such.

I've actually got a chunk of land set aside just for this kind of temporary stuff. By now it even has 2 LTN train stations (requester and provider) with a warehouse each. So It's easy to request 6000 rubyte chunks and then just carry them the few meter across to the sorter or put down a belt. Then when done it's just another few meters back to the provider warehouse.

Thats sounds better that what I did. Not know the progresstion I scaled up rubyte chunks ore sorting getting mixed ores and had a load of spaghetti between my ore sorters and blast furnaces. I've done quite a lot of 3 science + military science this way. and I'm only now switching over and scaling up again.

[mrvn]

Yeah, I've decided from the start to use LTN to do the sorting and spaghetti for me. Trains just go where they need to so I don't have to sort stuff onto separate belts, split them and get them to all the right places.

[Riktol]

Hi
The recipes for the shotgun and wooden chest both require wood to create, however you can't create wood without Bob's Greenhouse mod which isn't included (I assume because it makes things too easy).
Could you change the recipes to use some other wood-like substance or add a recipe to make wood?
One other thing, I seem to have biters (or possibly just clusters of worms) scattered around on small sandbanks on my map, is Sea Block supposed to have them turned on by default? I didn't think to check the settings because everything is supposed to be made from water.

Riktol

[Zavian]

Well you don't need shotguns or wooden chests.

Yeah I understand that some players might like to use them, but I can't see any reason why playing seablock without them is a problem.

[DrJones]

The recipes for the shotgun and wooden chest both require wood to create, however you can't create wood without Bob's Greenhouse mod which isn't included (I assume because it makes things too easy).
Could you change the recipes to use some other wood-like substance or add a recipe to make wood?

Yes, I also see worms. And only worms, no biters or spitters. But a variety of worms, thanks to Bob's Enemies.

I've managed to clear enough worms with turret creep to get the sniper gun, which outranges all the worms I've encountered so far and takes just a couple of shots to clear even the biggest worms.

Instead of wooden chests, you could of course make iron chests. Makes sense, since wood is significantly more precious in this modpack than iron. (Unlike in the vanilla game or when using Bob's Greenhouses, as you say.)

This modpack is all about changing the way you usually do things, giving you entirely new challenges, so I suppose this fits right in there.

That said, though, there is a recipe to make wood from (I think) naphtha. Once I got that I did make a single wooden chest just for funzies.

[Riktol]

Well you don't need shotguns or wooden chests.

Yeah I understand that some players might like to use them, but I can't see any reason why playing seablock without them is a problem.

If they aren't needed would you consider removing them to streamline the recipe list?
You could also remove shotgun ammo and such and the shotgun research tree.

[silentneeb]

I don't know if there is something I missing or what, but i put red packs in the electromagnetism lab and it does nothing. some help would be appreciated.

[DrJones]

I don't know if there is something I missing or what, but i put red packs in the electromagnetism lab and it does nothing. some help would be appreciated.

Did you actually select a technology to research? Check the top-right corner of the screen. If there is a progress bar, you have. If it says 'Press T to...', you haven't and you should press T to select a technology.

Or perhaps the technology you've selected actually needs both red and green packs? Press T to find out.