[0.15.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[bobingabout]

I'm having a problem where whenever I blueprint an adjusted inserter (different pickup/dropoff/offset), the blueprint ghost shows the correct settings, but when the item is actually placed, the inserter reverts back to default settings. This is especially frustrating with large blueprints, as I have to go through and fix the settings for ~50 long inserters. The only info I can find about this is back from ~9 months ago during 0.13, and nothing more recent. Any suggestions?

Wait... Question.

When you place the blueprint, is the ghost that is actually placed wring, or is it at the point where the bot places the inserter that it goes wrong?

If it's when you stamp the blueprint, I may need to look at my code (Make sure the over ride options in the logistics inserter GUI are turned off). If it's the point where the robot places the entity on the ghost... you'll need to make an official bug report.

Ok, I just now got into a 0.15 Bob's (+Angel's) campaign after not playing for a few months and I need to know: what is the deal with space science packs? How do I get them? Are they an output of rocket silos? And how many do you get per rocket launched?

Also, is there still no chemical process for wood-to-coal conversion? Is that still on the to-do list?

Thanks!

It's on the list.

[nagapito]

I'm having a problem where whenever I blueprint an adjusted inserter (different pickup/dropoff/offset), the blueprint ghost shows the correct settings, but when the item is actually placed, the inserter reverts back to default settings. This is especially frustrating with large blueprints, as I have to go through and fix the settings for ~50 long inserters. The only info I can find about this is back from ~9 months ago during 0.13, and nothing more recent. Any suggestions?

Wait... Question.

When you place the blueprint, is the ghost that is actually placed wring, or is it at the point where the bot places the inserter that it goes wrong?

If it's when you stamp the blueprint, I may need to look at my code (Make sure the over ride options in the logistics inserter GUI are turned off). If it's the point where the robot places the entity on the ghost... you'll need to make an official bug report.

And, also, it its when actually placing the item, is it with a bot or with pipette tool/pipette mods? If with a bot, then its some bug, if with vanilla or modded pipette, its actually intended!

[Arch666Angel]

Ok, I just now got into a 0.15 Bob's (+Angel's) campaign after not playing for a few months and I need to know: what is the deal with space science packs? How do I get them? Are they an output of rocket silos? And how many do you get per rocket launched?

Also, is there still no chemical process for wood-to-coal conversion? Is that still on the to-do list?

Thanks!

It's on the list.

Wood-to-Coal (the item you can mine) is pretty stupid because you can then produce all the oil you want from wood farms.

[bobingabout]

Ok, I just now got into a 0.15 Bob's (+Angel's) campaign after not playing for a few months and I need to know: what is the deal with space science packs? How do I get them? Are they an output of rocket silos? And how many do you get per rocket launched?

Also, is there still no chemical process for wood-to-coal conversion? Is that still on the to-do list?

Thanks!

It's on the list.

Wood-to-Coal (the item you can mine) is pretty stupid because you can then produce all the oil you want from wood farms.

I think that's why people want it.

[nagapito]

Ok, I just now got into a 0.15 Bob's (+Angel's) campaign after not playing for a few months and I need to know: what is the deal with space science packs? How do I get them? Are they an output of rocket silos? And how many do you get per rocket launched?

Also, is there still no chemical process for wood-to-coal conversion? Is that still on the to-do list?

Thanks!

It's on the list.

Wood-to-Coal (the item you can mine) is pretty stupid because you can then produce all the oil you want from wood farms.

I would not say it that stupid...

I have a mod that does that and I refuse to mine coal or oil, so I have around 120 greenhouses producing fertilised wood for +40 chemical refineries that are making coal that then is used for all the rest (oil, carbon, coke...)
My factory is not running at full power because if it was, I think I would had to double or triple this numbers!
So, its more about balancing the values so its expensive to convert wood to coal and requires a lot of infrastructure then about just discarding an idea because it might be OP if not well balanced.

[T2k3]

I would not say it that stupid...

I have a mod that does that and I refuse to mine coal or oil, so I have around 120 greenhouses producing fertilised wood for +40 chemical refineries that are making coal that then is used for all the rest (oil, carbon, coke...)
My factory is not running at full power because if it was, I think I would had to double or triple this numbers!
So, its more about balancing the values so its expensive to convert wood to coal and requires a lot of infrastructure then about just discarding an idea because it might be OP if not well balanced.

Agreed. It should be a net invest. Something in the lines of 50% energy loss.

I think that's why people want it.

Why not integrate in bobs greenhouse mod? it's still stupid since you'll invest tons of energy for something lying on the ground, but more options more fun!

[nagapito]

Why not integrate in bobs greenhouse mod? it's still stupid since you'll invest tons of energy for something lying on the ground, but more options more fun!

Lying on the ground is subjective...

I might decide, if this is implemented, to do a map without fossil resources... So, no coal or oil at all on the map.
I am simulating that, since currently, I cant get these technologies without oil. So, I did my bootstrap factory and also researched the technologies that allowed me to do that while using oil. Then, my real factory, that I am building is being designed from the prespective that there is 0 oil or coal. I even remove the resources when they get revealed by the radar

Gladly, 0.15 brings coal liquification that also gives light-oil/fuel oil, since with current coal to oil technologies from petrochem, it wasnt possibel to obtain fuel oil!

[rhyser9]

Wait... Question.

When you place the blueprint, is the ghost that is actually placed wring, or is it at the point where the bot places the inserter that it goes wrong?

If it's when you stamp the blueprint, I may need to look at my code (Make sure the over ride options in the logistics inserter GUI are turned off). If it's the point where the robot places the entity on the ghost... you'll need to make an official bug report.

The blueprint is placed correctly, it's when the actual inserter is placed that's borked. And it turns out it's only nanobots that do it, not construction robots, and only on my current save, not a freshly generated one. I'll take this over to nanobots to figure out more. Thanks!

[bobingabout]

Wait... Question.

When you place the blueprint, is the ghost that is actually placed wring, or is it at the point where the bot places the inserter that it goes wrong?

If it's when you stamp the blueprint, I may need to look at my code (Make sure the over ride options in the logistics inserter GUI are turned off). If it's the point where the robot places the entity on the ghost... you'll need to make an official bug report.

The blueprint is placed correctly, it's when the actual inserter is placed that's borked. And it turns out it's only nanobots that do it, not construction robots, and only on my current save, not a freshly generated one. I'll take this over to nanobots to figure out more. Thanks!

So it's not an issue with my mod, nor a base game bug, I was wrong on both counts.

[rhyser9]

Wait... Question.

When you place the blueprint, is the ghost that is actually placed wring, or is it at the point where the bot places the inserter that it goes wrong?

If it's when you stamp the blueprint, I may need to look at my code (Make sure the over ride options in the logistics inserter GUI are turned off). If it's the point where the robot places the entity on the ghost... you'll need to make an official bug report.

The blueprint is placed correctly, it's when the actual inserter is placed that's borked. And it turns out it's only nanobots that do it, not construction robots, and only on my current save, not a freshly generated one. I'll take this over to nanobots to figure out more. Thanks!

So it's not an issue with my mod, nor a base game bug, I was wrong on both counts.

Found what's going on after a brief chat with Nexela. It's because Nanobots use on_built, not on_player_built, and the GUI mode in the inserter menu was overriding the "player's" inserter placement. I'd never noticed it was enabled because I only use the hotkey for the inserter GUI, never the menu. It works just fine if I disable GUI mode (which is also the reason why it seemed to only happen in one save. GUI mode was never activated in the first place in the new one).

[Frostl]

Bob, keep up the great work with your mods. I probably would have a life without them, which is not my goal at the moment =)

I have a question though. Is it intended that to produce electronic circuit boards you need at least 2nd tier electronic assembling machine? The problem is that electronics assembling machine 2 need those same electronic circuit boards. Basically it forces me to build setup with regular assembling machines, produce some boards and then change every assembling machine to electronics one. I guess it's possible to craft them by hand, but in my opinion it's not very nice solution as well. By the way the same problem applies to electronic logic board, don't know about the last ones.

[NewSwiss]

Wood-to-Coal (the item you can mine) is pretty stupid because you can then produce all the oil you want from wood farms.

Funny enough, I thought you would implement this before Bob did. Make it have 3 intermediate products with 4 biproducts and it would fit right in.



But seriously, why not offer this option? This almost sounds like those "anti-solar" arguments saying that their infinite energy is imbalanced because it ends your reliance on coal. Oil (+gas) is an infinite resource (and so is coal in your mod), so surely providing an alternative would not be game breaking. On top of that, having a wood-to-coal process is realistic, assuming the plants on that planet are carbon-based. If nothing else, make the conversion process slow, energy intensive, and lower-yield (ie 4 wood to 1 coal). It would be another option to meet late-game carbon and oil demands, and you can't say that you don't like providing alternate processing options.

[bobingabout]

Bob, keep up the great work with your mods. I probably would have a life without them, which is not my goal at the moment =)

I have a question though. Is it intended that to produce electronic circuit boards you need at least 2nd tier electronic assembling machine? The problem is that electronics assembling machine 2 need those same electronic circuit boards. Basically it forces me to build setup with regular assembling machines, produce some boards and then change every assembling machine to electronics one. I guess it's possible to craft them by hand, but in my opinion it's not very nice solution as well. By the way the same problem applies to electronic logic board, don't know about the last ones.

The idea is that you are supposed to craft the first few boards by hand to make a MK2 assembling machine... or make an electronics assembler. Yes, it's like that by design.

[Arch666Angel]

Wood-to-Coal (the item you can mine) is pretty stupid because you can then produce all the oil you want from wood farms.

Funny enough, I thought you would implement this before Bob did. Make it have 3 intermediate products with 4 biproducts and it would fit right in.



But seriously, why not offer this option? This almost sounds like those "anti-solar" arguments saying that their infinite energy is imbalanced because it ends your reliance on coal. Oil (+gas) is an infinite resource (and so is coal in your mod), so surely providing an alternative would not be game breaking. On top of that, having a wood-to-coal process is realistic, assuming the plants on that planet are carbon-based. If nothing else, make the conversion process slow, energy intensive, and lower-yield (ie 4 wood to 1 coal). It would be another option to meet late-game carbon and oil demands, and you can't say that you don't like providing alternate processing options.

Carbon based yes, but you get a ton of other products from gas and oil as well and if you are arguing with realism, well coal is made up of a lot of other stuff (sulfur, ashes, minerals,..) than wood would deliver you. Also there is a basic process in bio-processing wood -> methanol which lets you supplement your production line without going the wood - coke route.

[NewSwiss]

Carbon based yes, but you get a ton of other products from gas and oil as well and if you are arguing with realism, well coal is made up of a lot of other stuff (sulfur, ashes, minerals,..) than wood would deliver you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't coal just plant matter that has been heated under pressure in an oxygen-free environment? IIRC, the only major difference between charcoal and coal is the carbon's density and allotropy (from the high pressure). Even if coal contains more impurity phases, then realism just means a lower conversion ratio (say, 8 to 1). At the very least, a wood --> carbon + synthesis gas process makes sense (North Koreans run their vehicles on the stuff, no joke).

Also there is a basic process in bio-processing wood -> methanol which lets you supplement your production line without going the wood - coke route.

True, but as per your development philosophy, more options is better.

[bman212121]

There is an error in that test.

That test was made to find the throughput of the pumps, so what was important was in and out of a pump.
You cant use the same test scenario here unless you actually increase the pipe distance for a reasonable amount.

As I said on previous posts, if we are talking about 1-2 pipe length, big pipes win since they act almost like source and void pipes and size will dictate the throughput.
But, once you start increasing the distance between the origin and the end, then propagation mechanics of fluids start taking effect on the results. Over a reasonable distance, large pipes will fail to propagate the fluid to the end of the pipe or just propagate a trickle while small pipes keep propagating the fluids.

And, as I also said on my previous posts, if bigger pipes fail to deliver fluids, then anything is better then nothing!
Just to give an idea, no exact numbers, but big pipes start having serious propagation issues after maybe 30 or 40 pipes or maybe even less. I know for sure that small pipes were working flawless on a section on one of my factories that was more then 250 pipes long!

This is some handy information. I remember trying to use pipes to move crude oil around the map, and basically ended up frustrated with it because it wasn't working right. I added in small pumps (before they changed them in v.15) and it would sort of work for like 4 or 5 pipes in a row, then everything would just stop working all together. I still really don't understand why the need to make pipes as complicated as they are in game. With a belt is has a certain "flow rate" that doesn't take a hit no matter the distance, and you can get upgraded belts with faster flow rates. I more or less gave up on trying to move anything over a distance by pipes because it doesn't make sense to do so. It's much more simple to just barrel it on one end, and un-barrel it on the other. You can move a lot more stuff a lot faster over an infinite amount of distance.

[Recon777]

Bob, keep up the great work with your mods. I probably would have a life without them, which is not my goal at the moment =)

I have a question though. Is it intended that to produce electronic circuit boards you need at least 2nd tier electronic assembling machine? The problem is that electronics assembling machine 2 need those same electronic circuit boards. Basically it forces me to build setup with regular assembling machines, produce some boards and then change every assembling machine to electronics one. I guess it's possible to craft them by hand, but in my opinion it's not very nice solution as well. By the way the same problem applies to electronic logic board, don't know about the last ones.

The idea is that you are supposed to craft the first few boards by hand to make a MK2 assembling machine... or make an electronics assembler. Yes, it's like that by design.

This restriction doesn't apply to the electronic circuit boards because those can be built from the Electronics Assembling Machine 1 (blue) which do not need the item it is building in its own recipe.

But it is definitely there for the electronic logic boards, which cannot be built in the tier 2 (red) electronic assemblers, forcing you to build the first five in the much larger vanilla Assembler 3

I always did find this to be a bit unnecessarily convoluted. It's the only instance of that kind of twist in the game as far as I know. Thankfully, it's not required to build by hand, for those who go the "Lazy Bastard" route and have machines to everything.

[Recon777]

Question about the recipe settings. Does Bob's give alternate "expensive" recipes for the "Recipe difficulty" and "Technology difficulty" settings?

I haven't tried those settings out yet at all, mostly because I'm trying to help balance the default game.

[Recon777]

Idea regarding lithia water: Why not have a separate resource setting for it? Currently, there's settings for "Ground Water" when setting up a new map. Shouldn't the two be separate?

[bobingabout]

Question about the recipe settings. Does Bob's give alternate "expensive" recipes for the "Recipe difficulty" and "Technology difficulty" settings?

I haven't tried those settings out yet at all, mostly because I'm trying to help balance the default game.

There are quite a few recipes in my mods that have an expensive setting.
None of the research has changed to specifically add an expensive alternative, but I thought expensive for technologies was just a flat multiplier to all techs. is this not the case?

Idea regarding lithia water: Why not have a separate resource setting for it? Currently, there's settings for "Ground Water" when setting up a new map. Shouldn't the two be separate?

Long story short, you either have water or you don't. The original intention for ground water was a pure water spring, which it now is now that pure water exists and is required for electrolysis.
As to why it is only 1 setting instead of two... basically, because I didn't want to keep making the list longer and longer, especially in earlier versions of the game, having too many resources was a real issue.