[0.15.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[bobingabout]

@bobingabout
Did 0.15.12 fix the electric boilers?

Probably. I've not tried it again yet.

Bob, did you remove the recipe for Sulfur from Petroleum Gas?

I was just setting up my battery factory and noticed my blueprint is invalid.

bobrevamp has been removing that since 0.12.

Bob can you add bottling for ammonia?

Already done in my latest WIP.
Ammonia and nitric oxide bottles, Hydrazine, dinitrogen tetroxide and hydrogen peroxide barrels. Also added Nitrogen Dioxide bottles to revamp too, even though bobplates already does that.

I also noticed that I've based all the new recipes around the number 10 in the new system, yet all the existing ones in bobplates are based around 20, so I've adjusted numbers all over the place. Pretty much all numbers in the new rocket fuel tree were doubled, so you'll need more electrolysers and nitrogen chemical plants, but the rest of the chain will be about the same.

The main reason why I did this is when you compare the old nitrogen dioxide production to the new stuff, say, for making nitric acid. In the old system you needed 1 nitrogen dioxide plant to feed 1 nitric acid plant. The new system would have no only required 2 nitrogen dioxide plants instead of 1, but also 2 ammonia plants, and 2 nitric oxide plants... do by doubling everything in this stage, it reduces the new factories required from 6 to 3.

I also worked out these numbers.

3 rocket fuel plants requires: 2 hydrazine and 1 dinitrogen tetroxide plants, 3 ammonia plants, 1 hydrogen peroxide plant, 1 nitrogen dioxide, 1 nitric oxide plant. This part remains unchanged, but now you need 4.4 Electrolysers for Hydrogen, 4.4 Electrolysers for Oxygen and 1.5 chemical plants for Nitrogen (The oxygen from the nitrogen plants is excess), previous numbers were exactly half of this. these numbers were calculated for MK4 all around because the MK3 electrolyser and MK4 chemical plant both have a crafting speed of 3.5. you will need more electrolysers for lower tiers because an electrolysers MK1 has a speed of 0.8, where a chemical plant has a speed of 1.25 (or 1.5? I forget) so you would need 7 electrolysers at this stage.

Logic for turning things on and off... I have 3 pumps (acting as on off valves) 1 to feed air into the nitrogen plant on a nitrogen <= oxygen switch. 1 to feed pure water into the electrolysers on a hydrogen <= oxygen switch, and 1 to vent oxygen on a oxygen > 80% of a tank switch. You may need a few cycles to let gas enter the system before this becomes reliable.

when activated, since you actually produce more oxygen than needed, the oxygen will slowly fill to 80% and then vent. presuming you're producing more hydrogen and nitrogen than needed (since you need 4.4 electrolysers, you have 0.6 more than needed if you build 5 etc.) these tanks will slowly fill up until they reach this 80% too, and since oxygen is venting, but the other two gasses aren't, the machines will switch off.

Of course, you could do something with the oxygen other than vent it, such as bottle it, but then the system isn't independent anymore, and a chest full of oxygen bottles would mean the oxygen tank gets full, so you can't produce more hydrogen and nitrogen and would clog the system.


Speaking of barrelling the new gasses, and venting... I should add a venting recipe for Nitric oxide and Ammonia. (Though, since you're making them both on purpose, and they're a single product, not a byproduct, why the hell would you want to.)

[nagapito]

Of course, you could do something with the oxygen other than vent it, such as bottle it, but then the system isn't independent anymore, and a chest full of oxygen bottles would mean the oxygen tank gets full, so you can't produce more hydrogen and nitrogen and would clog the system.

In situations like this I usually mix the system. Overflow valve to a tank, that is attached to a pump to bottle and another overflow valve to vent it. This way, system never stops since overflow is vented and I have a 'reserve' of bottle gas/liquids to be used somewhere else that might need it if there is a peak of consumption.
Obviously, in the places where I need this gas, if I am producing it, I also have a 'emergency request system' that requests this bottles and its connected with a topping valve so it only works when there is a deficit on production.
This is my usual system on a 'normal' base. My current base, I have huge dedicated liquid/gases production factories, moving them by train to where they are required, so this 'trick' is not required (and would not even work, too far for bots).

[bobingabout]

That works I guess. I forgot to mention I added a pure water topup type system too, where new pure water is only added if the tank on the electrolysis water input holds less than 80%, that way you can't flood the system so that the water byproduct doesn't get blocked.

[Recon777]

Bob, did you remove the recipe for Sulfur from Petroleum Gas?

I was just setting up my battery factory and noticed my blueprint is invalid.

Sulfur with Bob's mods is obtained in 2 ways: through refining of crude oil, or as a byproduct of several ore refining processes.

The crude oil refining methods allow you either to get sulfur (items) as an addition to the basic oil processing recipe, or to add water and exchange a product of that recipe for sulfur dioxide. Sulfur can be transformed into sulfur dioxide, which can further be transformed into sulfuric acid by various processes.

Many ores give sulfur dioxide as a byproduct of their refining, so honestly unless you're using ridiculous amounts of sulfuric acid you can probably just get all of your sulfur dioxide from ore refining. Nickel and zinc are two which I can remember, but they're not the only ones which have sulfur dioxide as a byproduct. Start refining mid-game ores and you'll end up with plenty of it.

No no up until the other day, you could make sulfur directly from water and petroleum gas in the chemical plant. This recipe appears to be gone now. That's how I've been making my batteries.

Just having it as a byproduct isn't good enough because you end up clogging systems if your draw is irregular. I was asking if this recipe has been removed recently because it seems to be missing.
Apparently, I've never tried BobRevamp before. ^_^

How do you all mass produce your batteries?

[bobingabout]

There are 3 recipes for processing Lead. The one you want it unlocked via Lead Processing technology

Lead ore and other stuff -> lead oxide (which you smelt afterwards for lead plates) and Sulfur dioxide.
Sulfur Dioxide can be made into sulphuric acid.
Feed the lead, and the sulphuric acid into the battery plant.

And apparently it's a perfect 1:1 ratio, so it produces exactly how much lead and sulphuric acid you need to do it.

[Diedel]

@bobingabout

Did 0.15.12 fix the electric boilers?

Yes it did, there is one boiler only and a bit more from GotLag out

https://mods.factorio.com/mods/timer67/eboiler
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/GotLag/E ... 20Furnaces

The one by Mobius1 has still a few missing pieces and bugs in the files, but a electric boiler now works jsut liek the chemical one fine.

[Recon777]

There are 3 recipes for processing Lead. The one you want it unlocked via Lead Processing technology

Lead ore and other stuff -> lead oxide (which you smelt afterwards for lead plates) and Sulfur dioxide.
Sulfur Dioxide can be made into sulphuric acid.
Feed the lead, and the sulphuric acid into the battery plant.

And apparently it's a perfect 1:1 ratio, so it produces exactly how much lead and sulphuric acid you need to do it.

Wow. Well, that is tight!
Thanks for the tip. It called for some time spent designing an entirely new system.
This is exactly what I've been looking for, although it's a LOT more bulky than my Sulfur based build. The good news is that it'll save on oil! Burned quite a bit of petroleum gas to get that sulfur before.

Old setup looked like this:



New setup looks a fair bit different. Pretty much no wiggle room inside my Tier 1 Factorissimo.
Galena would come in on the left.
Plastic on the top.
Coal or SF to power the chemical furnaces on the upper right.
Carbon comes in on the lower right.
Untested, but it should work with the right ratios. Will produce up to 35 sulfuric acid per second, and the batteries will consume 32 per second.
If my calculations are correct, it should sustain 2 batteries per second.

[bobingabout]

although the separating air method is valid to get oxygen, you get 2.5 times as much from electrolysis per cycle. (5 for nitrogen, 12.5 for electrolysis)

[Recon777]

True. If I needed the space, that's a good option.

Though I should point out that it's only 1.6 times as many machines to take it from the air because chemical plants have a crafting speed 1.5625x as fast as electrolysers.

[bobingabout]

that is true, you are using MK1s.

[Clipsterman]

In my game, it seems that pumps no longer are able to make water and lithia water. Is this a bug, or was it intentionally make it so? If not, does anyone know how to fix the problem? Piping water all over the place is kinda inconvenient when you're used to pumps doing it on their own.

[orzelek]

I can take a look at frequency of lithia water in RSO.
On one hand making it hard to get is ok I think since it's an end game thing (I think?). So travelling few k tiles for it should be ok. Using radars with big range helps with this a lot.
Part of the issue might be that lithia water same as ground water is not attached to any other resource as optional co-spawn. And since there are quite a lot of ores in bob's mods it might get pretty rare. Gold is actually less rare now since I based it's rariity on ore config files and bob made it not as rare as I thought.

Any good resources with which lithia water would go nicely to act as optional co-spawn?

Lithium Ion batteries are the MK2 battery, there's higher tier than that. I'd put it as a science pack 3 level item. So Lithium should be about as common as Titanium and Gold.

The thing is that in theory... it has exactly same chance of appearing. In practice it seems that it doesn't work like that for reasons I'm not sure about. Only thing I can see would be a lot of water on map which will "eat up" spawns that land in it.

[bobingabout]

In my game, it seems that pumps no longer are able to make water and lithia water. Is this a bug, or was it intentionally make it so? If not, does anyone know how to fix the problem? Piping water all over the place is kinda inconvenient when you're used to pumps doing it on their own.

that was phased out at the start of 0.13.

I have however, in one of the latest versions of plates, included the option to turn that back on. main menu -> options -> mods. check out all those options.

[Mobius1]

Yes it did, there is one boiler only and a bit more from GotLag out

https://mods.factorio.com/mods/timer67/eboiler
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/GotLag/E ... 20Furnaces

The one by Mobius1 has still a few missing pieces and bugs in the files, but a electric boiler now works jsut liek the chemical one fine.

I wasn't going to update it to make it work but since I already posted a version .0 I think that at least a working version I should upload
Have fun

[timer67]

http://imgur.com/a/MzZP2

Getting this error trying to load the LTN demo level.
Any suggestions ?

[Clipsterman]

In my game, it seems that pumps no longer are able to make water and lithia water. Is this a bug, or was it intentionally make it so? If not, does anyone know how to fix the problem? Piping water all over the place is kinda inconvenient when you're used to pumps doing it on their own.

that was phased out at the start of 0.13.

I have however, in one of the latest versions of plates, included the option to turn that back on. main menu -> options -> mods. check out all those options.

Strange, I still had them in my last game, which I think was after 0.13. But thanks for the tip, and thanks for making loads of awesome mods!

[bobingabout]

http://imgur.com/a/MzZP2

Getting this error trying to load the LTN demo level.
Any suggestions ?

Right, that is an error due to a recent change, I can fix it, but for now I sugest you downlaod the previous version from the archive (mod portal site or dropbox) untill I release an update.

[timer67]

its ok bob, just a demo level so i can wait for the fix

[Recon777]

The thing is that in theory... it has exactly same chance of appearing. In practice it seems that it doesn't work like that for reasons I'm not sure about. Only thing I can see would be a lot of water on map which will "eat up" spawns that land in it.

I wonder if you could adjust the chance of occurring depending on the variables for lakes. It's worth testing this theory on a map w/o water to see how often Lithia shows up.

You know, I wonder if you could put certain 'hooks' into RSO that would allow other mods to plug into your functionality. There might be a way to let modders add their ores to RSO without you having to update on your end.

[orzelek]

The thing is that in theory... it has exactly same chance of appearing. In practice it seems that it doesn't work like that for reasons I'm not sure about. Only thing I can see would be a lot of water on map which will "eat up" spawns that land in it.

I wonder if you could adjust the chance of occurring depending on the variables for lakes. It's worth testing this theory on a map w/o water to see how often Lithia shows up.

You know, I wonder if you could put certain 'hooks' into RSO that would allow other mods to plug into your functionality. There might be a way to let modders add their ores to RSO without you having to update on your end.

I tried to fix up the generation a bit but making it search further out for possible spawn locations.

Idea of remote interface was on table few times but it's a tad complex to do.