Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by Mooncat » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:27 pm

Wow! #1 :lol:
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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by deef0000dragon1 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:32 pm

Something that I Would like to see UI wise is the changing of the basic terrain gen options selection to not use drop down menus. A large part of this is the fact that the drop downs are slow to change if you have to change every single option to large from normal for example.

I don't know how the back-end works, or if this is implementable, but sliders may prove a better, and more analogue solution, and if that is not possible, a switch to radio buttons in a grid would allow for a quick change to every option, and a visual output in a form that would be similar to sliders.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by Speadge » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:38 pm

could u change the min-max sliders to "single-liners" where u can adjust min & max in one line? like u adjust price-ranges in online-shops.

I think that might add up to clearness of the GUI and avoid confussion when soneone set a higher min than max value.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by Mooncat » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:41 pm

Now I'm thinking.... how about put those map-related mod settings into this UI, with the new tab "Mod settings"? I mean, some mod settings are prototype related, changing them require Factorio to restart. But the other settings can be changed for each map. I think it will be more user friendly to put those settings here?

A possible solution for deef0000dragon1's problem, as I have encountered it too: add a new "Overall" setting for the ores. You pre-define some reachness, frequency and size levels and group into 5 "Overall" levels. Changing the overall level will automatically change the levels of each ore.
My use case: I personally like to make all ores to be "Very High", "Very Big" and "Very Good", except enemy. With "Overall", I can just change it to the highest level, then maybe adjust the levels of enemy settings and it is done. It can save many clicks. Even better if you have mods that create many new ores.

Thanks for the new recipe difficulty!
Last edited by Mooncat on Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by jorgenRe » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:43 pm

Nice one! Although id recommend adding some tooltips if there aren't any on the settings in the settings menu. Other than that love it :D!
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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by Klonan » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:47 pm

jorgenRe wrote:Nice one! Although id recommend adding some tooltips if there aren't any on the settings in the settings menu. Other than that love it :D!
We already have tooltips :)
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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by urza99814 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:50 pm

Mooncat wrote:Now I'm thinking.... how about put those map-related mod settings into this UI, with the new tab "Mod settings"? I mean, some mod settings are prototype related, changing them require Factorio to restart. But the other settings can be changed for each map. I think it will be more user friendly to put those settings here?

A possible solution for deef0000dragon1's problem, as I have encountered it too: add a new "Overall" setting for the ores. You pre-define some reachness, frequency and size levels and group into 5 "Overall" levels. Changing the overall level will automatically change the levels of each ore.

Thanks for the new recipe difficulty!
Overall options or even just using radio buttons would be awesome. I play with a Steam controller which makes changing a big list of drop-downs somewhat painful. Sliders would be OK if there aren't a ton of options -- otherwise dialing in a precise value still kinda sucks. Sometimes that's still the best solution, but when there's only a couple choices and a lot of options to set radio buttons would be great.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by mrhobby » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:51 pm

How those difficulty setting will affect achievements?
Should be there an achieve for beating extra hard mode?

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by evilbrain » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:58 pm

Can we have destruction factor go to negative values so you can go out killing nests to temporarily weaken enemies?
And maybe another slider to speed up evolution every time you kill a spawner.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by Marconos » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:04 pm

Really like the new game settings.

Hopefully there is an extreme setting that make everything expensive and slow with biter evolution cranked up. Would make for a very fun experience IMO.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by xfir01 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:11 pm

evilbrain wrote:Can we have destruction factor go to negative values so you can go out killing nests to temporarily weaken enemies?
And maybe another slider to speed up evolution every time you kill a spawner.
That actually sounds like an interesting play dynamic. Crank up the time and pollution factors, and go out to kill spawners if they start to be too much to handle.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by Lilly » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:20 pm

Considering the amount of settings that exist now, it might be useful to be able to have presets, so you can pick one that is close to what you want, and don;t have to change much. It is then also useful if you could save your settings as a new preset.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by Gergely » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:02 pm

Unless you disable the achievements if the difficulty is bellow default, I am considering this an unfair feature.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by SaintFlow » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:05 pm

I am unhappy. I bet you could have told us that a month ago. Most likely more. And even last week when at least somebody did talk about it (which I much appreciated), it sounded like MAYBE end of Feb or if that doesnt hold up early March. now its an optimistic end of March which means most likely April+.

As much as I respect the work which is Factorio, I do not feel good at times when I visit this place. When people talk about some issues they have with the game, they get told "Turnaround time for bugs is like half a day max" (which almost sounds like bragging) and "oh, that one is already fixed in 0.15!". When 0.15 is a version at least a month(s) away for customers so they have to live with or work around their issues until then. Oh well. Someday.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by kinnom » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:09 pm

SaintFlow wrote:I am unhappy. I bet you could have told us that a month ago. Most likely more. And even last week when at least somebody did talk about it (which I much appreciated), it sounded like MAYBE end of Feb or if that doesnt hold up early March. now its an optimistic end of March which means most likely April+.

As much as I respect the work which is Factorio, I do not feel good at times when I visit this place. When people talk about some issues they have with the game, they get told "Turnaround time for bugs is like half a day max" (which almost sounds like bragging) and "oh, that one is already fixed in 0.15!". When 0.15 is a version at least a month(s) away for customers so they have to live with or work around their issues until then. Oh well. Someday.
This is an indie game, and all the devs are focused on bringing out 0.15. Bringing out updates for minor bugs is not worth it at this moment
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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by AcolyteOfRocket » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:10 pm

Nice catch with the Lua reference problem.

Wrt difficulty, I hope that extreme settings will be possible since it can be fun to start a low resource deathworld where getting trains up is necessary, but not inevitable, meaning it is possible to lose.

I also enjoy setting some things high and some things low, so making each property of interest individually tweakable needs to remain in the game.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by KeylanRed » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:25 pm

kinnom wrote:
SaintFlow wrote:I am unhappy. I bet you could have told us that a month ago. Most likely more. And even last week when at least somebody did talk about it (which I much appreciated), it sounded like MAYBE end of Feb or if that doesnt hold up early March. now its an optimistic end of March which means most likely April+.

As much as I respect the work which is Factorio, I do not feel good at times when I visit this place. When people talk about some issues they have with the game, they get told "Turnaround time for bugs is like half a day max" (which almost sounds like bragging) and "oh, that one is already fixed in 0.15!". When 0.15 is a version at least a month(s) away for customers so they have to live with or work around their issues until then. Oh well. Someday.
This is an indie game, and all the devs are focused on bringing out 0.15. Bringing out updates for minor bugs is not worth it at this moment
Depends on the time frame, in my opinion. I don't think I have ever heard "indie development" used as a full excuse to not release bug fixes. I completely understand how being told that bugs are fixed but being held off for 0.15 when the release of 0.15 continues to get pushed back could be quite frustrating to people that purchased the game.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by maniak1349 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:31 pm

UI controllable settings are always good to have. But since there is more and more of them (and with mod settings coming there will be a LOT more) isn't it time to add some kind of a preset manager? Changing every setting every time you start a game is such a PITA.

Complexity settings sound good, my guess is Marathon mod and such was an inspiration? While being a lot of fun for players it will probably add a lot of work for modders. They will obviously be able to leave it at normal at all times, but it will make mods look a little flat in this aspect compared to vanilla. I guess it will depend on how good variety of recipe complexity will be implemented in vanilla. If it will be fun to play with while being easy to imitate/extend then it will definitely worth it. Anyway, its probably a good topic for a community discussion.

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Re: Friday Facts #177 - Difficulty settings

Post by Rseding91 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Speadge wrote:could u change the min-max sliders to "single-liners" where u can adjust min & max in one line? like u adjust price-ranges in online-shops.

I think that might add up to clearness of the GUI and avoid confussion when soneone set a higher min than max value.
The GUI already handles that by not allowing it. When you slide min > max it just moves max >= min automatically.
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