Friday Facts #111 - Long term plans

[transportman]

I honestly don't think we need a tech tree, it's just a graphical improvment. I'm not really sure what turret extensions mean, but turrets are already so strong that it doesn't really matter, the aliens aren't really a problem even on extreme difficulty. Then again, the next item is to revist fighting and balancing. Which is a very good idea, but in my opinion not as important as making sure the game has a sink past science. Basic mod portal isn't really that necesarry, you can already mod the game just fine. It's just making things look a little nicer and adding some compatibility improvements. Basic multiplayer lobby, is actually a very good idea and I agree on completely. Pathfinding would help several things, so I agree with this too. Better rail laying? I'm not really sure what that is suppose to mean. You place rail, you use trains. That simple. Or not? Lua coding is obviously a priority. Gui polish is again taking away allocated workers from a possible content patch to make things look better. Train wait conditions, I never had problems with. Circuit networks do need more things added to them to make it a little more useful and not just something that most people don't use at all.
Overall, there are good ideas. But In my opinon, and that's all it is, just an opinion of a veteran of factorio. I would like end game content more than graphical upgrades and somewhat silly little things.
Please don't think I'm trying to start a fight or be rude or inconsiderate. I just want to express the need/want for more end game content. After you get your blue science up, most things are just handed to you on a silver platter. Is it wrong to want a real end game? ):
-----Vaderciya 500 hours in factorio

You are a Factorio veteran, but Factorio is going mainstream, people with less technical background will play this game more and more. And then those silly little things as you call them, can make a lot of difference between hooking a player and losing a player (and get a bad review in the process).

The tech tree, I would welcome it, to easily see which techs I should research should I want to get to tech X that I need/want.
The mod portal is also something I would welcome and would even wanted to be there earlier. Now if I want a mod, I have to find it here on the forum. Then, if I update the game and the mods break, I have to find updated versions again. Not really user friendly, while there are many great mods around.
Better rail laying, I would appreciate if that could be done, I always struggle with diagonals and turns, they take up more time than I want.
GUI polish can make things a lot better and easier. Train order management, circuit network settings, I think those are some GUIs that can use some improvement.
Train wait conditions, in my current game I have some stations that hold their trains until there is no load left or if they are full, and unload until completely empty. But there is no simple option to do that.

While I also would like some more end game content, or even a longer campaign (I mean, you fly off in a plane and that's it), those silly things can mean a bigger step forward than some additional content.

[R3vo]

I really hope there will be more turrets in the future, like flamethrowers etc.

[driver]

I don't like the idea of a space platform and the usual heavy science fiction stuff, but there was a funny game called "space colony" from firefly, which was pretty good. The building part wasn't as deep as factorio, but the game had some nice ideas (for inspiration).

[-root]

I didn't mean to "guilt trip" I meant to motivate.

Its something teachers and parents have been doing for eons. "Son, I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed. You have so much potential, you could be so much more". Sound familiar? Its called a guilt trip and it works great when people have an emotional investment.

I never considered a "factorio 2". Was there a friday facts that I didn't read that said something like that was possible or having a possibility at being looked at?

Expansions have been mentioned in the past waaaaay back when in some really early FFF posts (like, 2014 I reckon). But it stands to reason. Kovarex and the team have *sooooo* much talent to give. Its in fact too much for any one game to completely exhaust their ideas. When factorio is a commercial success, I think an expansion at the very least is inevitable, possibly a sequel IF factorio goes big enough. That expansion or sequel will be the place for the crazy Von Neumann factories Kovarex has been dreaming of since 2012 and also the space platforms and different planets and all the crazy stuff that just plain isn't going to fit into the base game.

But as for being disappointed, there was a friday facts that mentioned that a very likely end game scenario would be the space platform. It was "pretty much" confirmed.

Link

Code: Select all

Factorio has been in development since spring of 2012 and it is currently in late[b] alpha.[/b]

I'm not sure about how long you've been around, however the way early access/alpha works is the devs have a rough plan of what they would like to do. However, they seek community feedback continually on their ideas, changes and additions. The space platform, when it was announced, split the community down the middle. I think we all saw it as a sick idea (which is it). But half of us worried about what that would mean for the base game.

I sent an email to Wube expressing my concerns and I know there were many others did as well. Putting forth reasons why that particular idea maybe didn't fit in the base release of Factorio and the team would be better off focusing on delivering basically what they had. I think the space platform as an endgame has been dying a slow death since then because of the feedback that came in from the community.

Dropping it would have had to be extremely difficult. But I wholeheartedly believe that Wube have made an excellent business decision that will really help in the long run.

As someone who has put over 500 hours into the game

&

-----Vaderciya 500 hours in factorio

Hours played means nothing. I've played more than you and there are people that have played more than me. There is always a bigger fish. Just because you've played this game a fair bit doesn't give you any kind of privileged. You're welcome to make suggestions and/or feedback, back them up with a solid, logical argument but that's it. If the devs decide to go a different way, that's their call. But making that decision harder by using emotional blackmail is a pretty low tactic mate.

Is it wrong to want a real end game? ):

This is what is called a logical fallacy. A variation on the burden of proof. You're acting like your opinion is correct and therefore all others are wrong. It follows that we now have to prove you wrong, not you prove the validity of your argument. The premise that factorio doesn't have a real end game or that launching a rocket to save your life after however many hours of fighting against a hostile planet isn't a real goal is just the opinion of some random who has a sum total of 2 posts on this forum and claims to played the game a bit. Really, I think that's just a faint bit crazy. How is getting home safe after personally beating death, an entire planet of hostile beings and hopelessness itself into submission not a worthy goal?

I say that after fighting to survive, alone, on a hostile planet, lightyears from help, all anyone would ever really want is to get home safe and that, is an endgame worth striving for.

[roman566]

How is getting home safe after personally beating death, an entire planet of hostile beings and hopelessness itself into submission not a worthy goal?

I say that after fighting to survive, alone, on a hostile planet, lightyears from help, all anyone would ever really want is to get home safe and that, is an endgame worth striving for.

The problem is that right now you fire a single satellite and that's it. Game over. To do that you do not need fancy beacons, more modules than required for recipes, more that two dozen labs or even train system! With RNG being nice, you can finish the game without leaving the starting location for reasons other than killing some aliens to get artifacts.

What I would like to see is some reason to build those large factories. Maybe some HUGE research project like 'call home to get me out of here', or build a frigging space ship! Not an actual ship, but just an objective where you have to send X items and resources to the orbit using many rockets so ship gets build and you can leave. Or both. Right now sending this one meager satellite on orbit does not feel like a proper victory.

[Xterminator]

I won't lie, I'm kinda disappointed to hear there will be no space platform at this point, as I was really looking forward to something a little "different" or at least something new to sink resources into. However, I can understand the Dev's decision both from a business standpoint and just based on their situation and the time they have already put into the game.

I agree mostly with -root here. I think for some of us veteran players, something new to do was sounding awesome sense we have already played through the game many many times. But like -root has said, and I wholeheartedly agree, Factorio already has a staggering amount of content in it, especially for newer or even intermediate players. I too remember my first try in the game where it took me 30 -40 hours to get to the rocket defense, and this was almost 2 years ago when there was quite a bit less content than there is now. Even after doing that, I played many more times and still so play pretty actively both privately and on YT playthroughs.

So in conclusion, yes the space platform idea being taken is a bit disappointing, but I think it could be great for an expansion or Factorio 2 which I would buy without a second thought. As it stands right now, the game could be considered nearly complete as far as actual content goes. I mean shit, I have played major AAA games that cost $40-$60 and had less content than Factorio, or at least less interesting content that I got bored of in 10-15 hours.
I think you guys made the right choice and I look forward to all the smaller changes and additions that were mentioned in this FF.

[Tev]

I thought dropping new endgame content was really bad news. Especially because (like roman566 said), there is no real need for more than 100 logistic bots, 2 trains and a few modules if you go just for the rocket. So you need to make only tiny factory.

But points made in FF and by -root, Xeteth & co. are really good. And now I agree that expansion for "advanced" players will be better place for new endgame content requiring really big factories.

As a cheap solution for 1.0 I would like some arbitrary reason to launch (maybe only on higher difficulty*) multiple (5-10) rockets. Like "you need to increase chance satellites will work and someone back home hears you" or whatever.


*btw I hope you rework map generation and difficulty setting, it's imo more important than fight rebalancing. For that you just need to somehow disable turret creep and buff unused weapons. When I play without turret creep and with high biters combat seems pretty good, so I'm actually little scared of that.

[roman566]

Personally I was thinking about various ships player could build to escape the planet. A normal shuttle for those who want to leave NOW!, a yacht/frigate/cruiser/battleship for those who have time and resources. Every ship would require some additional research to build and much more resources than the previous one (send into space via multiple rockets). Say, shuttle about 5-10k resources overall (roughly as much as you now need for the satellite), yacht about 50k, frigate 250k, cruiser 1 million, battleship 10 million (This is combined amount of iron, copper etc. obviously, all of that would be in form of various items). It would allow a beginner player an option of quick victory and give advanced players something to spend resources on. Not to mention replayability in form of 'and now I will build a factory to make a battleship'.
As the entire construction would take place off screen, I think it could be doable as a replacement for current 'shallow' satellite victory.

[Brambor]

I read every comment here and I agree with intergalactical hotel . It would be great! Bringing people here and be pushed to satisfy their needs. I know there is the "supply challenge" but to have actual people with towns, which you need to build, roads and so on would be great! Maybe even hospitals and some things people don't really need like parks, then a fire station? Police? Sewage management?

Maybe you already see what is my point. There are dozens of survival games (and other) into which developers can add and add and add content forever until it is like real life (with some starting situation different from: you are playing game and there is test tomorrow, but this is also a possibility) once they added everything in the game it becomes real life simulator and if they haven't done so yet they can now add some sci-fi content like aliens, destruction of species, or even making new pants and all sorts of possible problems or entertainment on every possible level.

Ok that's not exactly I wanted to write. Before I read all comments under this (FFF #111) I wanted space platforms and was disappointed when I saw it is not a thing that will be added soon anymore. But when I was reading, eating and writing I realised what I wrote here.

Every game specialise on something and if you would add space to Factorio then it becomes something else, but if you still like that idea then play factorio until you send a rocket into space and then switch to KSP, space enginers or some game like that, Factorio will not have everything but there is not a need for that, other games have what Factorio doesn't and Factorio have what non of them has, the remarkable logic and actually working implementation of it into beautifull world which graphic is still upgrading and therefore making better place for a player or spectator who is looking at the players LP.

I hope I gave your mind what I wanted to give to it and also I hope that there are not many mistakes, that google repaired everything here. This is my longest post and really anything i said or wrote in EN so far

In the end: if some of you speak czech, I would be very, very glad if you would look at my series in which I'm playing this awesome game I'm really intersted in how many (in precentage and in total) of you speak czech as I and most (I think) of the developers.

[Gouada]

First of all, thank you devs for what has been my favorite game for a year now!

While at first I was disappointed with the decision not to include space travel in the base game, after reading the developers explanation and everyone else's thoughts on the matter, I believe that the right decision has been taken.

With multiplayer integration (which I think was worth it) having taken up many months, it us understandable that the devs had to cut some features. While space would I been fun, I don't think that it really fitted with factorio's theme... After being stuck for years on this wasteland and building a factory empire, you just leave it behind and let the game end far away from the point and ideas that it started with?
As an expansion or Factorio 2 this is a great idea; what's more challenging or interesting than having Factorio type automation on a limited amount of space (get it? ) with variables such as people or cosmic happenings that you can't control but force you to change drastically so that you may survive?!
Well, maybe not exactly like that, but you get the idea...

So in conclusion I think that the next year should be spent polishing the game (for example all of a sudden the steam engine particles have cut my fps in half), and adding features that have been on the to-do list for a long time such as but not limited to more configurable map generation, weapon balancing, and train functions like "leave station when full".

Thank you very much for taking the time to read this!

[vaderciya]

Does anyone know what the "secret" could be? I saw some people saying fire, but I'm not really sure what that meant.

Also, any ideas on what turret extension means?

[Brambor]

Does anyone know what the "secret" could be? I saw some people saying fire, but I'm not really sure what that meant.

If you don't know what the fire means then read the FFF #111 where is mentioned that: fire, forestfires, bitters that are on fire, fire graphic...

[vaderciya]

Oh, I must have skimmed past that, sorry

But does anyone have any information on turret extensions? I'm curious to know what those are/could be

[-root]

Does anyone know what the "secret" could be?

6 legged battle tank.

[Supercheese]

Does anyone know what the "secret" could be?

6 legged battle tank.

?

[Klonan]

Does anyone know what the "secret" could be?

6 legged battle tank.

?

Maybe something a little Spookier

[dee-]

Automated API/sourcecode documentation? Doxygen anyone?



Edit:
AT-TE is so cute =^-^=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZa-IWwk36s

[slpwnd]

Thanks for all the input regarding us cancelling / postponing the space platform for now. And I mean ALL the input. Both people who cheered for the space platform and those who think our dev resources could be invested in a better way. It was not an easy choice for us but we have decided to really focus on getting the game into the 1.0 condition and that means some cutting.

The space platform, when it was announced, split the community down the middle.

This is very true. That was actually also one of the reasons why we have started talking about such a possibility for ending the game so early - to see what people think about it. I suppose if the whole community would be hyped about the thing it would be a different situation. Maybe we should have waited and do some prototyping first, but that is another story. So either way (we do it or we don't) somebody would be disappointed. And since as we have learned things really do take much longer than expected, this step has been making more and more sense recently. So anyway, thanks for your understanding (if you were looking forward to the platform and now are disappointed) and for your support (if you see why we have made this decision).

I really hope there will be more turrets in the future, like flamethrowers etc.

Oh yeah. If all goes well

[knub23]

I am glad that the space platforms are out of the plan. What were people expecting from them? As it sounded it would just be a new layer (map) where you build the same stuff. For what? Maybe like Civilization 2 you would build parts of a space ship, then click launch and then the game ends. But what is the benefit for us players? 5 hours more of the same gameplay? The space station never really seemed to add enough to justify it. It is just a delayed ending on a different map. Like the step from rocket defense to rocket, it feels a bit arbitrary (the rocket is basically the polished version of the rocket defense which was needed).

That said, games end. Some games have no real ending, like banished or OTTD or Train Fever and you can play Factorio that way. But games like Civilization and others just end when you reach the goal. Moving the goal 5 hours back doesn't really add something. Giving more ways to reach the goal or adding dynamic factors, that adds something. Or Multiplayer (did anyone ever play on a citybuilder OTTD server?; you could have something similar with multiple independent players on one Factorio map, which compete in a 3 hour race to build the most of item X; or implement the old RTS idea). Or add more options for sandbox (but Factorio already has that).

But the game has to be released at some point. 1 year from now seems too long, I hope it goes early access before and I really hope it gets to a 1.0 state at some point.

[Yttrium]

I would love to get my hands on better train stop conditions, I have some crazy plans that I would like to put to action!