[MOD 0.12.x] Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker

[hitzu]

Thank you for the responce.

I'll update it. Suggestions as to what to add is also welcome.

Tech tree changes.
Production chains.
New entities.
Screenshots.

[tjmonk15]

Had you already researched alien technology before installing the mod? It appears I have a problem in my migration scripts.
See my reply below to @hitzu, if that is the case.

If not, can you tell me what version of the mod you are using?

Started a brand new game (MP) after getting all the mods together. Running 0.12.6 of the mod (according to the in-game mods menu)

- Monk

P.S. Full list of mods, just FYI:

Landfill
Larger Inventory
MoreLight
Ore Expansion
Rail Tanker
Resource-Monitor-Mod
ScienceCostTweaker Mod
TiTaN's Mod
Treefarm-Lite
Blueprint String
Boxing
Fluid Barrel
Peace Mod
AlienPlant
Treefarm-AC

[GotLag]

A minor quibble about the name: if you're going to massively increase the cost/time requirements, don't call it a tweak. Or a rebalance. Call it Science Cost Increaser or something like that. Tweaker sounds like it's making some small adjustments in a few places. Maybe cheaper, maybe more expensive, maybe both.

I'll try and make it more clear in the topic name.

Sorry if I came across as a bit abrupt. I had some frustrating encounters with people in the Space Engineers forums who wanted the developers to nerf certain features into uselessness, and when that didn't happen they released nerfing mods with names like "tweak" or "rebalance", with the implication being that if you don't use the mod you're a lesser player. There's also a lot of this attitude in the Minecraft modding scene, see Gregtech for an example.

I don't mean to accuse you of this kind of pseudo-elitism, but just to explain where I'm coming from.

[hitzu]

I must agree with GotLag. A name such as Science Overhaul Mod would suit better, because it not only increase the science cost, but totally revamp technology chains and recipes that are related to the science.
Anyway It is a good mod and I definitely will try it when it becomes stable and when I cope with the great power shortage that turned my base into a struggling broken mess after I had installed Harder Energy Mod

[UberWaffe]

Started a brand new game (MP) after getting all the mods together. Running 0.12.6 of the mod (according to the in-game mods menu)

- Monk

P.S. Full list of mods, just FYI:

Landfill
Larger Inventory
MoreLight
Ore Expansion
Rail Tanker
Resource-Monitor-Mod
ScienceCostTweaker Mod
TiTaN's Mod
Treefarm-Lite
Blueprint String
Boxing
Fluid Barrel
Peace Mod
AlienPlant
Treefarm-AC

Thanks for the information. I'll try and find out which mod combo is causing the strange interaction.

EDIT 1: I've setup the same mod-pack and I can reproduce the problem. Busy looking into it now.

EDIT 2: As you suspected, it is the Peacemod 0.1.1 mod. The fix is to add it as a dependency in the Science Cost Tweaker mod. I.e:

Code: Select all

"dependencies": ["base >= 0.12.0","? bobelecoveride >= 0.12.0","? UberTweaks >= 0.0.1", "? peacemod"]

I'll include the fix in the next version of the mod.

Sorry if I came across as a bit abrupt. I had some frustrating encounters with people in the Space Engineers forums who wanted the developers to nerf certain features into uselessness, and when that didn't happen they released nerfing mods with names like "tweak" or "rebalance", with the implication being that if you don't use the mod you're a lesser player. There's also a lot of this attitude in the Minecraft modding scene, see Gregtech for an example.

I don't mean to accuse you of this kind of pseudo-elitism, but just to explain where I'm coming from.

No worries. It is just hard to change the name now since it is already used in a lot of places inside the mod / code.
For example, changing the abbreviation sct_ that is currently used in code will break all games currently in progress.
About the only place I can change the name without consequence is the thread heading. I'll update that to "Science Overhaul Mod A.K.A Science Cost Tweaker Mod", but the mod itself is a problem.

[tjmonk15]

...

Thanks for the information. I'll try and find out which mod combo is causing the strange interaction.

EDIT 1: I've setup the same mod-pack and I can reproduce the problem. Busy looking into it now.

EDIT 2: As you suspected, it is the Peacemod 0.1.1 mod. The fix is to add it as a dependency in the Science Cost Tweaker mod. I.e:

Code: Select all

"dependencies": ["base >= 0.12.0","? bobelecoveride >= 0.12.0","? UberTweaks >= 0.0.1", "? peacemod"]

I'll include the fix in the next version of the mod.

No such luck for me. Unzipped and have the mod in a folder, added the dependency for peacemod and still can't find the processors for the purple science pack. Just to make sure I am not blind, where exactly do they show up? I would assume right after the pieces for the blue science pack?

Any other ideas?

- Monk

Edit: Works after enabling the recipes through the console. I guess because of the issue you pointed out ^, when I researched alien tech, it didn't unlock the recipes correctly.

[UberWaffe]

No such luck for me. Unzipped and have the mod in a folder, added the dependency for peacemod and still can't find the processors for the purple science pack. Just to make sure I am not blind, where exactly do they show up? I would assume right after the pieces for the blue science pack?

Any other ideas?

- Monk

Edit: Works after enabling the recipes through the console. I guess because of the issue you pointed out ^, when I researched alien tech, it didn't unlock the recipes correctly.

Glad you could get it working.
As a sidenote, are you still using the 0.12.6 version?
I ask because 0.12.7 version is supposed to handle the enabling of the recipes for you if the technology was already researched.
It is hard to test, so if it doesn't appear to be working I would have to give it another shot.

[safan]

the bob's version may not be reasonable:

to automate green potions you need the assembler 2 with the electronic circuits that need solder. To have access to solder you need 600 green potions.

also note that bob's updated elecoverhaul to electronics.

gr.

[UberWaffe]

the bob's version may not be reasonable:

to automate green potions you need the assembler 2 with the electronic circuits that need solder. To have access to solder you need 600 green potions.

also note that bob's updated elecoverhaul to electronics.

gr.

Thanks for the report. I have not yet updated this to take the new Bob's electronic changes into account.
Any suggestions as to what I might want to do? I've got rather limited time to do actual test play-through, so suggestions would be very much appreciated.

[hoho]

the bob's version may not be reasonable:

to automate green potions you need the assembler 2 with the electronic circuits that need solder. To have access to solder you need 600 green potions.

also note that bob's updated elecoverhaul to electronics.

gr.

Weird, I've played two maps with this mod and latest bobs mod to early blue potions without any issues. I get solder from basic electronics research (never mind the cost, I have several mods changing it):

[cpy]

Alien science pack cost does not seem to work, with 0.12.7 version.
Everything in tier10 seem to be scaled i set 8x red green blue alien and everything is 8x except alien pack.

data-final-fixes.lua line 95
wrong:
if (multiplier.cost.circuit ~= nil) then
mult = multiplier.cost.alien

correct (maybe? it seems to be working) :
if (multiplier.cost.alien ~= nil) then
mult = multiplier.cost.alien

[safan]

yes the issue is non-existant, i never knew you could make the lead plates in a normal furnace (like iron or copper) and you don't need the lead processing tech.

* got sniped, this goes about the creation of the assembler 2 in bob's discussion*

[UberWaffe]

Alien science pack cost does not seem to work, with 0.12.7 version.
Everything in tier10 seem to be scaled i set 8x red green blue alien and everything is 8x except alien pack.

Thanks for spotting that, it was in fact broken for alien science packs (vanilla), and dark blue and gold science packs from Bobingabout's Mods.
Lines 88, 95, 101 were all copy&paste errors.
Should be fixed now. Did a quick test, and seems to be working now.

[cpy]

Is it me or tier 3 lab or maybe others too (i haven really tested them all or noticed) is too damn fast. I mean i have 150s research time and it can do it in 10s without modules. Only with 2 lab speed upgrades.

[UberWaffe]

Is it me or tier 3 lab or maybe others too (i haven really tested them all or noticed) is too damn fast. I mean i have 150s research time and it can do it in 10s without modules. Only with 2 lab speed upgrades.

All the labs have a crafting speed of 1 (same as vanilla lab). The tiers are simply limit what can be researched inside them (mainly it is to make higher tier labs more energy expensive). So this shouldn't be happening.

To help narrow this down:
Does the research still display a research time of 150s? (I.e. it isn't showing something small like 10s per item?)
=> If not, then what config from Science Overhaul Mod are you using? (Ex: sciencecosttweaker.options.difficultyCost = "normal" in the config.lua file)

=> If the time is displaying correctly, then:
=> Do you have any other mods installed that also affect labs or research?
=> If yes: Can you give your modlist? I'll try and see what is going on.
=> If no: Not sure. Will have to dig some more.

[hoho]

Is it me or tier 3 lab or maybe others too (i haven really tested them all or noticed) is too damn fast. I mean i have 150s research time and it can do it in 10s without modules. Only with 2 lab speed upgrades.

Are you sure you aren't talking about a single "bottle" being consumed in 10s instead of one "tick" of research done in 10s?
If a research cost is 150s per "tick", 100 ticks per research project and each tick taking 15 red bottles then without lab upgrades you'd be consuming a red bottle every 10s.

I haven't seen such issues so far. Research takes ages, just as it's supposed to

[hoho]

I have to correct myself. I just had a test with ElectroChemics lab vs Full Spectrum Atomics lab and the latter ideed runs faster, ~2.5x faster in fact. My misconception came from me not having upgraded my labs to tier three.
I'm running with a metric ton of mods and this one is configured at "normal" settings.

I believe the "problem" comes from the speed of science labs being a function of power usage. Each next tier of labs consumes more power and is able to chew through science packs at faster the rate. I'm almost certain it's a limitation in the base engine of the game. If you don't want to have super-fast labs then the power usage of them has to be scaled back.

[cpy]

My idea of lab speed is same, i think more power it eats, faster it goes. I have to test it but i haven't had much time with factorio in last few days.

[UberWaffe]

I have to correct myself. I just had a test with ElectroChemics lab vs Full Spectrum Atomics lab and the latter ideed runs faster, ~2.5x faster in fact. My misconception came from me not having upgraded my labs to tier three.
I'm running with a metric ton of mods and this one is configured at "normal" settings.

I believe the "problem" comes from the speed of science labs being a function of power usage. Each next tier of labs consumes more power and is able to chew through science packs at faster the rate. I'm almost certain it's a limitation in the base engine of the game. If you don't want to have super-fast labs then the power usage of them has to be scaled back.

My idea of lab speed is same, i think more power it eats, faster it goes. I have to test it but i haven't had much time with factorio in last few days.

Wait, really? I had never even imagined that would be the case. I had simply assumed as with everything else that full power simply means 100% of defined crafting speed, and that 'low power' can make it slower.
I'll play around a bit and see if this is true. If it is, then I'll see if I can scale back the crafting speed of higher tier labs to counter their higher energy consumption.

Thanks @cpy and @hoho for pointing out this bug.

[EDIT]
I've tested this on the vanilla base game, and even changing the energy_usage of the base lab entity causes the speed to be affected.
I've logged it as a bug on the bug report forum (https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =7&t=15350).
If the developers are going to fix it in the next release of Factorio, I'm not going to bring out any special hotfix for it.
If not, then I'll post some form of hotfix that can be deleted after the base game addresses the behavior.

[UPDATE]
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 59#p104459
This has been addressed in the base game for the upcoming v0.12.6. Again, thanks @cpy.

[cpy]

Well, at least we know it wasn't your bug but game bug! Heh, classic.