netmand wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:26 pm Personally I don't gauge changes to Factorio by calling them meaningful or not. Are you not recognizing that there are changes and choosing not to acknowledge their significance? They're not significant enough to make your games fun again, right?

What's so bad about admitting that a rail gun is more suitable as a mod rather than a base game content update? Is it so terrible that an idea is better off as a mod? Is only changing the base game going to make you happy? Just because your ideas are being challenged doesn't mean those people are resisting change. (see my signature for my take on change, it's been there the whole time and then some)

I guess not everyone is having as much fun as I am.

Everyone keeps focusing on combat, but I've also suggested making biomes more meaningful, strengthening exploration a bit, and adding alternative ways to extract or gather resources. The majority of the comments have been #nochanges and the game is fine as is. What's so crazy about expanding and adding depth to the base game? It's going to happen anyway, you are better off offering suggestions on the direction it should take.

Mods can be clunky, often get abounded and lose compatibility with time. There are also limitations to what modder's can do. Doesn't mean there aren't good mods out there, I'm enjoying Alien Biomes as mentioned above.

At this point the discussion is becoming circular, so I'll leave it at that for now.

netmand wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:33 pm

Mythoss wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:22 pm the base game is ridiculously easy.

I chuckled at this having seen a recent post about someone that couldn't figure out that they need to put their science packs into a lab to progress on tech (after 8 hours of play). Not everyone has the kind of experience or education to assess the game as, "ridiculously easy".

The game's play-ability is rooted in its simple approach. On the surface the simplicity may cause it to appear too easy, but its under-lying complexity surfaces when the player tries to create factories that are more dynamic. The map is not infinite, neither are the resources. Variables that stay the same aren't variables, they are parameters. You can set the game parameters to make your game easier (and less tedious) for you to play, maybe this is what you mean by needing more content? You've made the game so easy by changing its parameters and playing it for so long that way that now it's impossible to adjust it to feel less tedious for you, so you're looking for more content?

Ok, so every player's experience is going to be different, and it's not totally fair to call the game easy. I realize it's not for everyone.
I've turned biter settings up, to pretty ridiculous levels while turning resources down and spaced out to require the utilization of trains. Where do I go from here to make the game different and interesting? Combat basically consists of setting up a perimeter around your base. Slowly expanded it as your base grows. Then running around in a tank or a decked out suit to destroy hives faster than biters can expand. Is that combat bad? No, it's probably somewhere around the line of "Just Ok." Could it be more interesting, with more tools available and or new threats? Absolutely.

New content is really all I can hope for and perhaps modding. Admittedly, rampant is a step in the right direction with biter ai, but it still plays pretty similar.

Alien biomes is pretty solid, and closer to how I envisioned an alien world. The devs should really hire that modder because he nailed it. Alien biomes should be in the base game imo.

Kyralessa wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:25 pm Sure, people can criticize America because they love the ideal it represents. But they can also criticize America because they just plain can't stand it. (I should know; as an expat American, I do it all the time.)

Go back and read what you wrote here, out loud, to yourself, and then ask yourself whether this is "constructive criticism" or whether you're just griping and being rude and unpleasant:

viewtopic.php?p=499884#p499884

Rude or unpleasant would imply I attacked, or directed a comment towards another user. I haven't. I stand by what I wrote, I think it describes key issues with the game pretty well. I think some people are getting sensitive about a game they really like being criticized. I get it.

Oktokolo wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:36 am

Mythoss wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:53 pm I mean you are right, my opinion is based on anecdotal experiences with my small group of friends and family (about 10 or so) who all love the game, but have all grumbled about how basic and uninteresting the biters feel.

The thing with Factorio is, that it actually (and despite of its surprisingly large user base) is a niche game. The Biters aren't there to give the player an opportunity to do combat. They are there to give the player a reason to dump lots of resources into military tech. So it may very well be the case that your friends and family aren't part of the target group...
But Factorio is extremely modable and Rampant exists. Do not underestimate, what mods can do for you. Rampant does really improve Biter AI a lot (difficulty is tunable by various parameters).

Mythoss wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:53 pm Environments and it's look can be super important to the immersion factor and overall feel of the game. For example, Factorio's music is fantastic in making you feel isolated on an alien world, the environments however or not, and break that immersion for me. To each their own I guess.

Factorio indeed lacks theming (non-game-changing mods wich aren't considered for multiplayer compatibility checks). But maybe that gets added after 1.0.0. Then you can have your game look completly different than the game of the other players on the same server.
But if you have a local user base of ten people sharing you taste, you can play with Alien Biomes right now.

They designed this game with mod support from the start. It is meant to be played with mods.
Look at the mods, Klonan made. He even made a combat improvement mod...

Basically you are saying, "The game shouldn't be improved any further because mods exists." Which to me is just silly. I'm basically arguing a) Development has been slow (and it has, comparatively to other similar games). B) Their focus is often in the wrong directions. And lastly c) I offered some suggestions for different ways they could expand.

So to summarize: the base game is ridiculously easy. Once you understand factory layouts EVERY game plays the exact same. All the viarbles are the same when resources are infinite. Since the map is basically infinite or large enough to make virtually any size base you want, layouts are not dynamic. Sure, the shape might change a bit to accommodate the landscape but at the end of the day, you are utilizing the same factory ratios. Not having one game to the next not really play differently leads to STALE gameplay. This is where combat can play a larger roll with adding dynamic viarbles to the game. Hitting you with different enemy types from different angles, evolving into different units between each session. Adapting to your defences so you have to react accordingly .Now you have gameplay that can potentially be different each session.

The same can be said for biomes. All biomes are basically a reskin with virtually no difference. If instead we add rare resources that can only be found in each, now we have a reason to explore and each game will play a little different. For example maybe oil can only be found in the snow biome but my game didn't load snow or it's so ridiculously far away I need to think of an alternative way to produce it. Looks like my game has an "alien" biome with spores I can super compress with my alternative spore compressor tech I need to research. It also needs to be fed water to work. Now you have a completely different playthrough from your last game with alternative tech trees and resources being used AND it made you go out and explore the world.

Satisfactory does a good job with exploration where you can collect radioactive slugs that let you super clock your factory's. Yes, similar to modules except you have to explore the world and hunt for them.

Factorio dev's have wasted a lot of time on features that never see the light of day. Better campaign? Scrapped. Better tutorial? Scrapped. Low resolution textures? Scrapped. Why not just start with high resolution pixel art?

Some things which disturbed me in the discussion:
- The biters and spiters are the natives of this planet, not aliens. They are enemies, but the aliens are you! search.php?keywords=alien&t=84237&sf=msgonly
I know I cannot speak against mountains, but in my opinion it is a source of many misconceptions around Factorio, like the next:

- In that sense, they cannot be arbitary dangerous. This is not Starship Troopers where such creatures just evolve out of nothing. The natural evolution does only, what it needs to. It doesn't invent big bosses, it takes some millions of years for that. Mods can do that. See down.

- Factorio is one of the most moddable games ever. And it's so super stable, and nice under the hood, that it really makes sense to make mods, that takes some years to develop, not such always-the-same-I-want-to-make-money games.

- It is for a programmer really hard to make a really good mod for Factorio, because to make the graphics is ... difficult. I think in that way Factorio lacks of development tools, documentation, How-to's etc.

Mods
https://mods.factorio.com/?tags=enemies
https://mods.factorio.com/?tags=weapons

The target for 1.0.0 is clear
This thread will not change the current direction; to make some effect I recommend to write suggestions. This discussion will not change much, because it’s not clear what is really wanted, because there where mentioned so many aspects.

There are already some suggestions
The latest relevant post about biomes is from 2017!
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50000
There is factual (when looking into suggestions) no need for new flying biomes.
EDIT: No, there is another post viewtopic.php?p=492815

We have a very old link list about biomes: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=13022
There s a part in, that is only about biomes and a long list of threads.

A really old and quite creative link list for enemies: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=139

And about endgame: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=24090


More threads around the topic "new biters, new typies of aliens, smarter enemies" from here (I did not go back before 2016):
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=86114 from yesterday, but it's more about brining the world to live - in this case just effects, not really game-changing.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=77532 Better scaling of enemies + alien tactics (2020)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=71708 Air Based Enemies & Anti-Air Defenses (2020)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61380 Enemies + (2018) --> That is a bit similar discussion to this one
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61232 Increasing BOT-KI and adding Queens (2018)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61329 Exploration + Expansion (2018)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59168 More Diverse Enemies (2017)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53899 New "enemies" (2017)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52966 Combat Reform (2017)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50674 HEY, What about Air/Water enemies? (2017)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50179 Factorio Endgame
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47538 Introduce RTS elements to the game
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46867 Aliens as protagonists DLC (2017)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46636 [0.15] Make Biters Interesting... (2017)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45215 Bosses (2017)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=42857 Once more unto the breach: Combat (2017)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39289 Flying Creatures (2016)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39752 Late game: Smart aliens and advanced evolution (2016)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39210 Worms and Turrets (2016)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37655 Alien Enemies (2016)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34550 Alien species (2016)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=29346 Enemies need improovements (2016)

Much more can be found, as said, I concentrated my only to the "enemies"-aspect of this thread.

What are about the boring look of the trees?
I remember a discussion about 6 years ago, where this where discussed. The result was: The trees look green, because it would be more realistic than everything else. And if you look closer, you see, that they don't really look like trees on earth. They have the wrong green, the forms differ a lot. And it's the same with the aliens. They look as they look, because form follows function. I'm quite happy with this look.

Such things can be only seen, if you look close enough and if you know, how things should look. Factorio makes here such a wonderful job.

And this is also a source of misconception: In games natre looks more natural, than in reality. Because as player you look only at the big things. But in Factorio you need to look at the smalls things.

Mythoss wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:53 pm I mean you are right, my opinion is based on anecdotal experiences with my small group of friends and family (about 10 or so) who all love the game, but have all grumbled about how basic and uninteresting the biters feel.

The thing with Factorio is, that it actually (and despite of its surprisingly large user base) is a niche game. The Biters aren't there to give the player an opportunity to do combat. They are there to give the player a reason to dump lots of resources into military tech. So it may very well be the case that your friends and family aren't part of the target group...
But Factorio is extremely modable and Rampant exists. Do not underestimate, what mods can do for you. Rampant does really improve Biter AI a lot (difficulty is tunable by various parameters).

Mythoss wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:53 pm Environments and it's look can be super important to the immersion factor and overall feel of the game. For example, Factorio's music is fantastic in making you feel isolated on an alien world, the environments however or not, and break that immersion for me. To each their own I guess.

Factorio indeed lacks theming (non-game-changing mods wich aren't considered for multiplayer compatibility checks). But maybe that gets added after 1.0.0. Then you can have your game look completly different than the game of the other players on the same server.
But if you have a local user base of ten people sharing you taste, you can play with Alien Biomes right now.

They designed this game with mod support from the start. It is meant to be played with mods.
Look at the mods, Klonan made. He even made a combat improvement mod...

netmand wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:12 pm

Mythoss wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:11 pm [...] there is a huge playerbase out there that doesn't just want a logistical problem solver. [...]

That kind of statement always bothers me. I don't recognize your authority in that respect and challenge you to name a mere 25 of the "huge playerbase" that you are talking about. I'm ok with (and am following) your opinion on this but please don't profile large portions of the players like that.

Personally, I couldn't care less if the trees I'm clearing look like bulbous purple fleshy plants or evergreen shrubbery. My motivations for playing Factorio is to expand the factory by efficiently increasing science per minute.

I mean you are right, my opinion is based on anecdotal experiences with my small group of friends and family (about 10 or so) who all love the game, but have all grumbled about how basic and uninteresting the biters feel. On the other hand, officials Factorio forums are only going to have the most die hard fans who have stuck it out for 3+ years with minimal content updates. These are the players who have managed to entertain themselves with factory layouts, blueprints and efficiency which is a whole meta game in itself. My point being is neither is a good representation of what the players want. But is adding more productions chains and a rocket 2.0 that is even harder to launch really the direction the game should go with adding content? For me and my friends no, I'd rather they flesh out the other less developed parts of the game.

Environments and it's look can be super important to the immersion factor and overall feel of the game. For example, Factorio's music is fantastic in making you feel isolated on an alien world, the environments however or not, and break that immersion for me. To each their own I guess.

Mythoss wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:11 pm I disagree, what are the odds of a planet in a different solar system evolving with the EXACT same trees and brush? To me, it means the artist lacked creativity and imagination. Alien doesn't have to mean oversaturated. I also don't think every biomes needs to look alien, but some definitely should, since we are, after all, on an alien planet.

Zero, but in my opinion whole stupid story of crashes pilot is futile in this kind of game. It does not give anything or does not affect to any decision. It is exactly as possible to build alone an infrastructure able to launch orbital rocket as find a planet which have similar plants as earth and huge arthropod animals.

The majority of these complaints from you guys that just enjoy the building aspect could be resolved with a difficulty slider and or a no fliers checkbox.

It would be possible.

Keep in mind you are the vocal minority on these forums, and there is a huge playerbase out there that doesn't just want a logistical problem solver. There are plenty of puzzlers out there. Many of us enjoy all the aspects of the game, and want them expanded upon.

This is real problem. Combat players are much larger group than nerdy engineering logistic game players. Therefore it is real treat that devs will change the game to much more combat oriented. There are no games like factorio. Factorio can be modded to be challenging in logistical sense (with one of those huge and complicated mods, like DyWoprld, Bob's & Angels, Pyanodon etc.) and no other game can handle nearly as large and complex world than Factorio.

I hope that there will be games with the same idea. They can be more combat oriented or what I would like most more engineering oriented. Not pursuit of fourth decimal of perfect 2:3 ratio, which is fate of far too many Factorio players and as far from real engineering as possible, but adjusting to varying conditions, handling nonlinear systems etc.

I think there is nothing wrong with using choke points and it's a strategy I use as well, but I also think biters should be able to get to you. I don't think cheesing the terrain in a way that biters can't even reach you or just barely so they funnel in is abusing the games limitations, and pretty cheaty. Fliers would solve that to some extent.

Why not trivial solution, just do not enclose your base or choose less water in map? For example I do not like beacons and just do not use them. Only thing it prevents is extremely large megabases, but I am not interesting copying of same structures until my CPU melts and get some number just before smoke is released.

There actually really aren't that many biter mods, as mentioned above, because the amount of knowledge a modder has to have to put them in as well.

This is true. Game does not give versatile tools to make interesting enemies. It is more or less impossible with slow lua scritps, especiaslly if number of enemies is large. Enemies should be programmed with efficient C++, if they had interesting properties, like AI, and not just versions of basic biters. However, I think that flying biter would be possible by just disabling collision checks and let biter run through everything. Similar unit would be burrowing biter if not drawed on screen.

Hannu wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:42 am

posila wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:59 amI don't know what's up with that. I remember Albert, the art director, saying he was instructed to keep trees and grass green, water blue, etc. I don't know if there was some intention behind that or maybe it was just kovarex not liking alien-looking game worlds.

In my opinion it is very good decision. They are clear colors I have used to. Strange oversaturated colors would look alien in first hours, but messy and stressing after that.

I disagree, what are the odds of a planet in a different solar system evolving with the EXACT same trees and brush? To me, it means the artist lacked creativity and imagination. Alien doesn't have to mean oversaturated. I also don't think every biomes needs to look alien, but some definitely should, since we are, after all, on an alien planet.

Hannu wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:40 am

Mythoss wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:22 pm Expanding on the combat, that's apart of the game isn't a stretch by any means. If you don't like the combat there is sandbox mode or Sim City. You are oddly defensive about feedback from players who enjoy that aspect of the game. The combat is arguably the weakest part of the game and seen little love, it would make sense that players would want it expanded.

Combat is intentionally in side role. If I remove enemies I lose significant logistic challenge. Therefore I want to keep enemies. I have to build more factories and mine more resources to feed hungry defense lines. I would like to have more complex defense logistics as a part of engineering challenge, but as many (especially devs) have written there will not be any large content addition before 1.0.

You get strict negative feedback because concentrating in combat is easy way to make this kind of game very boring and it may be true danger if too many demand it and devs see possibility to earn more. It moves very easily focus from building to fighting. I understand that there are many players who like it. Actually much more than like building. But there are also huge number of combat games in market but very limited number of builging and logistic games like Factorio.

Why is it hard to understand some players enjoy the building / layout aspect of the game, others enjoy managing threats and the tower defense mini game, while others, like myself, enjoy both?

We all understand that. But we builders do not want to get just another full bodied combat game.

Your suggestions would destroy strategic elements even in combat part of the game. You think using natural barriers is abusing, but it may be also strategic decision. If there were enemies able to teleport anywhere (or fly or burrow, it is practically the same), players should just spawn all types of turrets everywhere. No matter are they common or rare, all production units should be defensed everywhere on map. In my opinion, it is much more interesting also from combat point of view to be able to make strategic decisions and get benefits of clever thinking. And if you think real defense strategy, modern military troops use terrain very carefully to control enemy moving and enhance own defense position instead of just running on each other on huge field like biters (I always wonder why warfare was like that so many millennia).

Have you tried mods? There are some mods which concentrates on combat and make game much harder if you want.

The majority of these complaints from you guys that just enjoy the building aspect could be resolved with a difficulty slider and or a no fliers checkbox. Keep in mind you are the vocal minority on these forums, and there is a huge playerbase out there that doesn't just want a logistical problem solver. There are plenty of puzzlers out there. Many of us enjoy all the aspects of the game, and want them expanded upon.

I think there is nothing wrong with using choke points and it's a strategy I use as well, but I also think biters should be able to get to you. I don't think cheesing the terrain in a way that biters can't even reach you or just barely so they funnel in is abusing the games limitations, and pretty cheaty. Fliers would solve that to some extent.

Mods are not a great solution for a number of reason. If added enemies aren't in the base game, then I won't see them in the new campaigns or game modes for 1. Another reason, is they don't come with the tools to manage new threats. New turrets, production lines, ect. Mods are also often buggy. There actually really aren't that many biter mods, as mentioned above, because the amount of knowledge a modder has to have to put them in as well.

For reference, the game Mindustry, does a much, much better job at combat. There are many more turret options, many turrets can get loaded with different ammo types to change the way the guns work. There are still lots of logistical problems to solve and I can find the time to do it between waves just fine.

posila wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:59 am

Mythoss wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:30 amMy point is more about the look of factorio biomes and how they really just represent earth biomes in regards to flora. It doesn't really have an alien "feel" while satisfactory, No Man's Sky, Subnautic do. Those worlds feel truly Alien. I wasn't trying to make an apples to oranges comparison to actual game design.

I don't know what's up with that. I remember Albert, the art director, saying he was instructed to keep trees and grass green, water blue, etc. I don't know if there was some intention behind that or maybe it was just kovarex not liking alien-looking game worlds.

Albert mentioned the Alien Biomes mod (https://mods.factorio.com/mod/alien-biomes) in FFF-320: https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-320 as inspiration for trying a few more crazy colours in the terrain.

Alien Biomes definitely does what Mythoss wants in regard to an 'alien feel'.

posila wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:59 amI don't know what's up with that. I remember Albert, the art director, saying he was instructed to keep trees and grass green, water blue, etc. I don't know if there was some intention behind that or maybe it was just kovarex not liking alien-looking game worlds.

In my opinion it is very good decision. They are clear colors I have used to. Strange oversaturated colors would look alien in first hours, but messy and stressing after that.

Mythoss wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:30 amMy point is more about the look of factorio biomes and how they really just represent earth biomes in regards to flora. It doesn't really have an alien "feel" while satisfactory, No Man's Sky, Subnautic do. Those worlds feel truly Alien. I wasn't trying to make an apples to oranges comparison to actual game design.

I don't know what's up with that. I remember Albert, the art director, saying he was instructed to keep trees and grass green, water blue, etc. I don't know if there was some intention behind that or maybe it was just kovarex not liking alien-looking game worlds.

posila wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:17 am

Mythoss wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:08 am It really bothers me that each biome is just aesthetically different. There really isn't any reason to visit each one separately. They also don't feel very "alien" for an alien planet. Satisfactory does a good job of that.

Satisfactory is factory building game with exploration elements. They use aliens mostly to prevent player from "exploring too fast", but also as a thing to explore.
Factorio is factory building game with base defense elements. Aliens are used as a resource dump, distraction from base building to give moments of rest from thinking about logistic problems, and to contain player in smaller area. If player builds a turret wall to defend agains an enemy, new enemy that is able to fly over the wall or is immune to the damage of turrets built there shouldn't show up when player might be building mining expansion far away from the base. This wouldn't be problem in RTS, as player can control all over the map all the time.

My point is more about the look of factorio biomes and how they really just represent earth biomes in regards to flora. It doesn't really have an alien "feel" while satisfactory, No Man's Sky, Subnautic do. Those worlds feel truly Alien. I wasn't trying to make an apples to oranges comparison to actual game design.

Fliers add a layer of depth through new defenses and avoiding choke points. They could be balanced to come mid/late game and not spawn from every biter nest to make them manageable. They could / should not spawn with ever biter attack to give players breathing room. You could also make the starter turrets be able to attack them but have further research chains that add anti air turrets or even modules to equip in your vehicles or personal player.

Mythoss wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:08 am It really bothers me that each biome is just aesthetically different. There really isn't any reason to visit each one separately. They also don't feel very "alien" for an alien planet. Satisfactory does a good job of that.

Satisfactory is factory building game with exploration elements. They use aliens mostly to prevent player from "exploring too fast", but also as a thing to explore.
Factorio is factory building game with base defense elements. Aliens are used as a resource dump, distraction from base building to give moments of rest from thinking about logistic problems, and to contain player in smaller area. If player builds a turret wall to defend agains an enemy, new enemy that is able to fly over the wall or is immune to the damage of turrets built there shouldn't show up when player might be building mining expansion far away from the base. This wouldn't be problem in RTS, as player can control all over the map all the time.

5thHorseman wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:29 pm

Mythoss wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:22 pm The combat is arguably the weakest part of the game.

I say the love story is weaker. I mean, you never even see the love interest on screen and there is like NO back story. Also the roguelike aspects could be better fleshed out.

That's pretty fair, you have the campaign for a bit of backstory but yeah, not a lot.

It really bothers me that each biome is just aesthetically different. There really isn't any reason to visit each one separately. They also don't feel very "alien" for an alien planet. Satisfactory does a good job of that.

khalismur wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 1:18 pm

MrFactorio wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 8:27 am [...] if you like to play it a bit more spicey with a bigger focus on warfare, there are just 2 alien models to blow up and this becomes boring after some while.

And that's where the fantastic mods the community has developed come into play! There are many bitter mods.
I'm very glad the base game is very stable, optimized and doesn't suffer from feature creep. Leave that to modders

As I have said, there is only one mod that really adds new biter models to the game increasing the number to three. Thats pretty few in my opinion. All other biter mods are just recolored or rescaled versions of existing biters.

theolderbeholder wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 1:45 pm

MrFactorio wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 8:27 am The game IS already in a absolute stable state where there is so much already optimized that I think its really time for some new content.

Feel free to place a preorder for factorio 2, in the meantime you may enjoy what you already got.

Is it not allowed to discuss about new content??? Dont feel attacked just because there exists people who think that the game lacks some content in some parts of the game and that it is polished enough so they would like to switch the focus of developement over to more content in the future.

MrFactorio wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 8:27 am [...] if you like to play it a bit more spicey with a bigger focus on warfare, there are just 2 alien models to blow up and this becomes boring after some while.

And that's where the fantastic mods the community has developed come into play! There are many bitter mods.
I'm very glad the base game is very stable, optimized and doesn't suffer from feature creep. Leave that to modders

BattleFluffy wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 2:34 am One of the great things about Factorio is how stable and optimized it is.
It's a near-perfect gem in a sea of bloated buggy games.
We should value this.

You just gave the answer why I totally disagree with you. The game IS already in a absolute stable state where there is so much already optimized that I think its really time for some new content.

For your playstyle there might be already enought content, but if you like to play it a bit more spicey with a bigger focus on warfare, there are just 2 alien models to blow up and this becomes boring after some while.

MrFactorio wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 8:22 pm

Mythoss wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:08 am While I enjoy reading the blog and seeing small tweaks and graphical updates to the game, none of it is enough to really pull me back into the game. I've been reading the Friday blog for years now, and I can't help but be a little disappointed that there hasn't really been many new features.

I keep hoping for new, significant, impactful features, some random ideas:

New bitter enemies with interesting ai. Flying biters, burrowing biters that can bypass walls, new anti air turrets to deal with the new threats. Boss biters that only rarely show up but are a significant threat.

Structures you can build on or underwater that have items in the production chains.

New vehicles to combat the threat.

More upgrades, items and weapons.

New biomes that actually feel alien and weird. Instead we have basically earth biomes.
The biomes don't even seem to really matter or have different resources to gather from. Biomes are really just a reskin, though admittedly pretty.

A single player (coop?) campaign with interesting goals and objects that can't be found in sandbox.

Mobile bases with trains with new cabs to build. Imagine if a cab could unpack and work as a factory or smelter? Maybe a turret or defense focused cab in addition to the artillery. So much cool stuff you could do with trains.

Maybe a whole new alien threat that isn't biters?

A tower defense modes with challenging waves of enemies that progressively gets harder as time goes on. This could be designed around coop with 4 people or something.

I realize it's a small team and making a quality game takes time, but sometimes I have to wonder if your priorities are in the wrong place. I really don't care about better switches, or railroading pathing, mod debugging, ect. After years of small updates the game needs some more meat on its bones to get players back.

I feel the exact same. I am always reading the friday blogs hoping for some new content.
I would love to see some new enemy types or new content like defense structures or vehicles.

There are some really awesome mods out there but so far only one mod adds really new enemies (armored biters) and they lack a bit of high resolution in comparison to the vanilla biters.

I love to play this game a bit like Starship Troopers with a very deep economy and tech tree.

That's exactly what I want. Well that, with a coop mod where each player can specialize a little bit with their own tech trees to add something to the group with some tower defense mechanic thrown in. I tried the defense mode and it feels really barebones. Cliffs don't spawn either which is odd.

Mythoss wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:08 am While I enjoy reading the blog and seeing small tweaks and graphical updates to the game, none of it is enough to really pull me back into the game. I've been reading the Friday blog for years now, and I can't help but be a little disappointed that there hasn't really been many new features.

I keep hoping for new, significant, impactful features, some random ideas:

New bitter enemies with interesting ai. Flying biters, burrowing biters that can bypass walls, new anti air turrets to deal with the new threats. Boss biters that only rarely show up but are a significant threat.

Structures you can build on or underwater that have items in the production chains.

New vehicles to combat the threat.

More upgrades, items and weapons.

New biomes that actually feel alien and weird. Instead we have basically earth biomes.
The biomes don't even seem to really matter or have different resources to gather from. Biomes are really just a reskin, though admittedly pretty.

A single player (coop?) campaign with interesting goals and objects that can't be found in sandbox.

Mobile bases with trains with new cabs to build. Imagine if a cab could unpack and work as a factory or smelter? Maybe a turret or defense focused cab in addition to the artillery. So much cool stuff you could do with trains.

Maybe a whole new alien threat that isn't biters?

A tower defense modes with challenging waves of enemies that progressively gets harder as time goes on. This could be designed around coop with 4 people or something.

I realize it's a small team and making a quality game takes time, but sometimes I have to wonder if your priorities are in the wrong place. I really don't care about better switches, or railroading pathing, mod debugging, ect. After years of small updates the game needs some more meat on its bones to get players back.

I feel the exact same. I am always reading the friday blogs hoping for some new content.
I would love to see some new enemy types or new content like defense structures or vehicles.

There are some really awesome mods out there but so far only one mod adds really new enemies (armored biters) and they lack a bit of high resolution in comparison to the vanilla biters.

I love to play this game a bit like Starship Troopers with a very deep economy and tech tree.

While I enjoy reading the blog and seeing small tweaks and graphical updates to the game, none of it is enough to really pull me back into the game. I've been reading the Friday blog for years now, and I can't help but be a little disappointed that there hasn't really been many new features.

I keep hoping for new, significant, impactful features, some random ideas:

New bitter enemies with interesting ai. Flying biters, burrowing biters that can bypass walls, new anti air turrets to deal with the new threats. Boss biters that only rarely show up but are a significant threat.

Structures you can build on or underwater that have items in the production chains.

New vehicles to combat the threat.

More upgrades, items and weapons.

New biomes that actually feel alien and weird. Instead we have basically earth biomes.
The biomes don't even seem to really matter or have different resources to gather from. Biomes are really just a reskin, though admittedly pretty.

A single player (coop?) campaign with interesting goals and objects that can't be found in sandbox.

Mobile bases with trains with new cabs to build. Imagine if a cab could unpack and work as a factory or smelter? Maybe a turret or defense focused cab in addition to the artillery. So much cool stuff you could do with trains.

Maybe a whole new alien threat that isn't biters?

A tower defense modes with challenging waves of enemies that progressively gets harder as time goes on. This could be designed around coop with 4 people or something.

I realize it's a small team and making a quality game takes time, but sometimes I have to wonder if your priorities are in the wrong place. I really don't care about better switches, or railroading pathing, mod debugging, ect. After years of small updates the game needs some more meat on its bones to get players back.