Where do you see the End Game

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Factory Overlord
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Where do you see the End Game

Post by Factory Overlord » Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:32 pm

Factorio is a great game but right now it doesn't seem to have a clear purpose besides, "Build a Rocket" and "How fast can you build a rocket"
Once you setup a build it pretty much repeats with that same pattern.

for me personally, I feel like before it is out there should be more a driving force that forces you keep changing your builds to serve different purposes.

I don't know what everyone elses opinion is on the matter.


For me personally, I feel it would be nice to have a system like;
For example, there is a Colony on the planet ( is not actually shown - just pure flavor text )
They give orders on demand and you fill them.

There is also an Export Outpost, which you need to send the product to. Early on it might be done manually, then by belt, then by train.
As you supply it with more goods the output levels up and accepts new forms of input.

Now time to time the colony gives product orders - and you can choose to do them or not.
There is an invisible Ai ( again flavor text ) competing against you. If you fail too many orders they win exclsuive contracts and you lose your factory license.
So drives the player to a need to keep optimizing their build to compete against this unknown foe.

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by Deadlock989 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:45 pm

It doesn't have a clear purpose except for the two crystal clear purposes you mention ... Any game has a limited lifespan. From my point of view, this game has the best price to hours played ratio of any game I've played in the last 35 years, because of the incredible mod support it has.

There's the Supply Challenge scenario bundled with the game which does some of the other things you suggest. Granted, it lacks polish, but this is a beta version of the game.

Other than that, (a) the "freeplay scenario" is essentially a sandbox, so, nothing stopping you setting your own goals except your own motivation/imagination; (b) the aforementioned 4000+ mods and the ability to write your own if none of them scratch your particular itch.

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by Hannu » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:42 am

Factory Overlord wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:32 pm
Factorio is a great game but right now it doesn't seem to have a clear purpose besides, "Build a Rocket" and "How fast can you build a rocket"
Once you setup a build it pretty much repeats with that same pattern.
That is sad. I have had tens of interesting challenges, even I have tendency to build similar ways which are aesthetic for me and avoid using some elements of the game which I do not like.
for me personally, I feel like before it is out there should be more a driving force that forces you keep changing your builds to serve different purposes.

I don't know what everyone elses opinion is on the matter.
I like the most sandbox style gaming in which I set my own goals and restrictions. I do not resist if there will be additional game mode or scenario with predefined goal, but if it was an only option it would ruin the game. In my games beginning phase is from beginning to the point I have regular long term sustainable rocket launching ability (first tens of rockets). Then begins midgame during which I extend the production. End game is when the base is large and I make typically mostly small adjustments or sometimes rebuild some production unit, but I do not intend to rapid growth anymore. The game ends when I got bored after which I have typically break of couple of months anf then I begin the new game with new mods.

I do not like beacons, bots and copying hundreds of similar structures to get just throughput number large enough. So my bases are not huge megabases from production point of view. I prefer to have increased complexity from mods, like Bobs, Angels, Pyanodon or DyWorld in my current game.
There is an invisible Ai ( again flavor text ) competing against you. If you fail too many orders they win exclsuive contracts and you lose your factory license.
So drives the player to a need to keep optimizing their build to compete against this unknown foe.
I would hate this kind of forcing. Entertaining gaming must be creative. I get enough controlled planning challenges in my engineering work. There is always given objectives, restrictions and rules of real life. In virtual world I want to make odd and sub-optimal solutions when I feel them more aesthetic and set my own rules instead on maximizing production against costs.

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by Setien » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:49 pm

Getting off the planet is just step one. Building more factories on more planets is step two. With a higher degree of autonomy at their apex.

At the pinnacle at each planets production, there is a small amount of a unique type of resource.

Getting these resources together in one factory from multiple planets allows for higher and higher tier upgrades of well known components - such as ever faster assemblers, ever faster belts, more efficient miners, etc, basically letting you work towards orders of magnitude higher production.
Over time, you build up new capabilities such as auto-scouting for ore, setting up new factories out of blueprints automatically, etc.

Win condition is now building a Dyson sphere around your local star. You win when the star is completely enclosed.

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by RTC » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:55 pm

mods are the endgame

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by Adamo » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:46 am

The endgame is persistent clusterio servers with biters on.

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by Factory Overlord » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:14 pm

Hannu wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:42 am
Factory Overlord wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:32 pm
Factorio is a great game but right now it doesn't seem to have a clear purpose besides, "Build a Rocket" and "How fast can you build a rocket"
Once you setup a build it pretty much repeats with that same pattern.
That is sad. I have had tens of interesting challenges, even I have tendency to build similar ways which are aesthetic for me and avoid using some elements of the game which I do not like.
for me personally, I feel like before it is out there should be more a driving force that forces you keep changing your builds to serve different purposes.

I don't know what everyone elses opinion is on the matter.
I like the most sandbox style gaming in which I set my own goals and restrictions. I do not resist if there will be additional game mode or scenario with predefined goal, but if it was an only option it would ruin the game. In my games beginning phase is from beginning to the point I have regular long term sustainable rocket launching ability (first tens of rockets). Then begins midgame during which I extend the production. End game is when the base is large and I make typically mostly small adjustments or sometimes rebuild some production unit, but I do not intend to rapid growth anymore. The game ends when I got bored after which I have typically break of couple of months anf then I begin the new game with new mods.
You just said you do the same thing over every few months with almost no change.
You no longer are playing a game, you are creating a tradition.
  • I will launch a rocket,
    Fine tune,
    Quit
    Come back few months later
    Repeat.
There really is no variation of what is happening.
Also the goal it self is a lie.

Your goal will always be to increase efficiency.
It will never be "I will try and take even longer to launch a rocket" - simply because that goal is meaningless and solved by not advancing any level at all.

Having no Goals it self is equally a lie.
Take Art for example - one could argue in Art there are no goals.
But that is a misconception. It simply is not a functional goal.

Say I want to make Star Trek Enterprise in Minecraft - while it serves no functional purpose.
The goal it self is to make Star Trek Enterprise.

Goals always exist, people simply fail to see them.
Currently, the game only has a single goal, launch the rocket in the quickest and most efficient manner possible.
There is no other function besides that.

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by Deadlock989 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:17 pm

Factory Overlord wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:14 pm
Goals always exist, people simply fail to see them.
Currently, the game only has a single goal, launch the rocket in the quickest and most efficient manner possible.
There is no other function besides that.
Your lack of imagination is not anybody else's problem. You said it yourself: you failed to create any other goals.

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by planetmaker » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:33 pm

Factory Overlord wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:32 pm
Factorio is a great game but right now it doesn't seem to have a clear purpose besides, "Build a Rocket" and "How fast can you build a rocket"
Once you setup a build it pretty much repeats with that same pattern.
Well, no, not at all. Building a rocket is for me usually only an intermediate step towards the actual goal of my then-current map.

I pose limitations on what I allow myself to do and goals on what I want to find out. The rocket itself is fairly unimportant. Many of these goals can be combined to create the actual challanges:
* Make a factory which produces X science per minute
* Ship only raw materials by train, and never ship intermediate materials over any notable distance
* Make everything on a giant bus
* Make a train network which is self-organizing (and don't use mods / use mod <whatever>)
* Design Stations / outposts / factories which can be easily expanded or are tilable for scaling
* Try weired things like shipping the science to labs in cars which move on belts. (That can actually enhance throughput.)
* Start using mods. They change the game dramatically. The choice there is overwhelmingly large
* Start some scenarios - there are at least a few great ones out there, some even featured in the FFFs.
* Limit yourself on the type of power you allow yourself to use. It makes a big difference.
* Limit yourself on the type(s) of belts you allow yourself to use (or try to allow none at all!)
* Play with changed settings. Deathworld. Railworld, ore abundances...
* Play on multiplayer servers. Test a few. There are servers which really have unique maps, scenarios and communities and which open up a whole new perspective
* Do you already have earned all achievements? If not: do so. Some are tough.
* Beat the speed challenge

Basically: the goal is what you make your goal. The rocket is only in the game so you learn the ropes of the game. Then it's up to you to explore the infinite options the game actually offers you.

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by Adamo » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:51 pm

The end goal of Factorio is landing an engineering job.

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by SirSmuggler » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:57 am

Factory Overlord wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:14 pm
Take Art for example - one could argue in Art there are no goals.
But that is a misconception. It simply is not a functional goal.

Say I want to make Star Trek Enterprise in Minecraft - while it serves no functional purpose.
The goal it self is to make Star Trek Enterprise.
Goals always exist, people simply fail to see them.
Ok, sounds about right I guess.
Factory Overlord wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:14 pm
Currently, the game only has a single goal, launch the rocket in the quickest and most efficient manner possible.
There is no other function besides that.
Oh, so it's ok to have none functional goals in "art" and Minecraft, but for some reason I cannot have a none functional goal in Factorio?

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by Hannu » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:57 am

Factory Overlord wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:14 pm
You just said you do the same thing over every few months with almost no change.
You no longer are playing a game, you are creating a tradition.
  • I will launch a rocket,
    Fine tune,
    Quit
    Come back few months later
    Repeat.
There really is no variation of what is happening.
Also the goal it self is a lie.
You can always say that all goals in virtual worlds are lies. It is certainly true from some primitive materialistic point of view. But it is quite boring philosophy.
Your goal will always be to increase efficiency.
Real goal is to get entertaining and fun experiences in my brains. The game is just a tool. And increasing efficiency in virtual world is very good for such experience. By varying restrictions and mods and definition of efficiency I get infinite many variations of the game.
Currently, the game only has a single goal, launch the rocket in the quickest and most efficient manner possible.
There is no other function besides that.
I disagree very strictly against this. There is always infinite goals and functions, if player wants and have some creativity. Even situations in which game developers have thought single predefined goal there is almost always alternative ways to achieve it and also other possible goals player can set by themselves. All kind of cheats are probably as old as computer games. When I was younger I had cheat codes or I managed to hack save files for most games and overran dev's goals and restriction with my own (for example cheating practically infinite money or other resources and building freely). I do not remember but I managed to hack some game with hex editor by finding amount of money from memory.

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by ssilk » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:32 am

Factorio - as it works and can be modded yet - could also be this:

- the hero in is young years works on a civilized planet and needs to build “factories”, that produce just one product, but in ridiculous amounts. There is only a very limited space in the factory. And the input and output belts.
Later levels include, that the output stream never breaks down, so you need to buffer. More advanced you need to build several products. One per factory of course. Maybe you need to transport the items between the factories by train.

The more often you play it, there is a good chance, that you can create blueprints, that makes playing it much faster.

Maybe you end with railroad tycoon? :lol:

- Two sides, and a pipe in between. One side produces matter, the other anti-matter. They fill it into the pipe. Where matter and antimatter contact, they will be destroyed. The target is to produce more (anti)matter than the other side and destroy the other side with it.

[This is inspired by Lemmings. The two player game worked so, that both sides started with lemmings that walked to the other side. When two different lemmings contacted, they exploded.]

So another variant of that would be to produce robots that try to enter a point at the other side. The robots might have weapons on board ...

- factorio Homeworld. The mothership is a spacecraft and a big factory and can produce other ships (that might produce other ships). Platforms support weapons, shields, generators, shipyards and other things and you as player just says which blueprint should be built at which shipyard.

With the time you can change the blueprints and built own, more efficient versions, or versions, that are much more specialized. And you can store the blueprints for the next game, but be aware: you need to choose which blueprints you use before starting the game and the opponents sees them and can use them (as you can use his).

You can fly around with the ships, like in Homeworld in a real 3D space, and collect new materials from asteroids. The ships look from outside like the platforms inside. You can play against other players and try to destroy their mothership.

Well, that part is eventually too cpu-heavy for just a mod and needs game support. Would be a good point to bring in 3D-rendering to Factorio. ;)


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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by BlueTemplar » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:52 am

needs to build “factories”, that produce just one product, but in ridiculous amounts
A bit like the vanilla production challenge scenario ?
The target is to produce more (anti)matter than the other side and destroy the other side with it.
Tug-of-war Redmew map in 3... 2... 1...
(I think they already have something like this, but fancier, as it involves buying biters to attack the other side ?)
You can fly around with the ships, like in Homeworld in a real 3D space, and collect new materials from asteroids.
StarMade bridge when ? :P
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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by Honktown » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:02 am

I've been playing mods here and there, and I've been getting bored/done around the "making the numbers bigger" phase. I already had a vanilla game with over 300 launched rockets, and at least 250 were without beacons. This was after my first game was multiplayer, and again, we didn't know about beacons. There were at least 90 red chip machines running constantly, all with production 3's. Used logistic robots to refill the belt for plastic bars and green chips.

I like some of the enemy mechanics (especially with mods), I like getting to later stuff, but as it stands, anything that requires really big numbers and lots of time gets kinda depressing. I like nuclear reactors, but they're during the big numbers phase (800 blue for the reactor, 1500 blue and purple for kovarex). They also take a lot to produce and aren't necessary except when you're blowing out production with beacons and stuff. Trains were neat at first, but they're part of the big numbers game, so it actually bothers me the research is required for yellow, and now, nearly every research is required to get anywhere, so there's less variation than before, if only a little bit.
Adamo wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:51 pm
The end goal of Factorio is landing an engineering job.
It can be harder than you think :(

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Re: Where do you see the End Game

Post by ssilk » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:48 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:52 am
needs to build “factories”, that produce just one product, but in ridiculous amounts
A bit like the vanilla production challenge scenario ?
No. More into a direction of how to produce ridiculous amounts of x but so that a guaranteed number of items per second come out. If the production chain breaks down once you loose. This is really, really hard to achieve, because this is disturbed by many events: power fail, water restrictions, biters in the center of your factory, ...
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