[posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

[Acid_Burn9]

Flamethrower tower, until moving enemy is in range, shooting ahead of him, even if the spot its aiming is out of its range. This wont be an issue, but like that it hits wall and turrets near him, basically burning down defense line he should protect.
This is actually very serious issue. Right now any wall with flamethrowers is not capable to defend base.
My wall, what was holding for 50+ hours without even being damaged (except some single events), after 30 minutes in 0.17 already half destroyed itself.

[pistols39]

Just about to post the same issue. There is a new feature for predictive aiming for the flame turret (see patch notes). Seems to be a bit out of sync though.

pic1.png (1.06 MiB) Viewed 14427 times

pic2.png (1.45 MiB) Viewed 14427 times

[Acid_Burn9]

Just about to post the same issue. There is a new feature for predictive aiming for the flame turret (see patch notes). Seems to be a bit out of sync though.

Yup. This predictive aiming is broken. I recommend not to play at all for now. You have a chance to be completely eaten by biters now. Especially if you have megabase and you cant fix whole wall quickly.

[Acid_Burn9]

Forgot to mention! There is also very serious issue with that, you dont get an alarm, when flameturret destroys other turrets (cause they werent destroyed by the enemy). So you wont know your wall was fallen, unless you check it yourself! Please, people, be very careful!

[CobaltBlue]

Another confirmation here. Flamethrower essentially resets to a corner for me while firing. However, since I have other turrets in the corner they are constantly destroyed.

[BlueTemplar]

Just about to post the same issue. There is a new feature for predictive aiming for the flame turret (see patch notes). Seems to be a bit out of sync though.

Yup. This predictive aiming is broken. I recommend not to play at all for now. You have a chance to be completely eaten by biters now. Especially if you have megabase and you cant fix whole wall quickly.

Those look like 0.16 designs - why do you expect them to work with 0.17 ?

[Ranakastrasz]

Those look like 0.16 designs - why do you expect them to work with 0.17 ?

Uhm. Because flame turrets have an aiming area, which they are violating and burning the defense line down?
Because flame turret range hasn't changed?

Why would you expect it to NOT work with 0.17?

[Acid_Burn9]

Those look like 0.16 designs - why do you expect them to work with 0.17 ?

Uhm. Because flame turrets have an aiming area, which they are violating and burning the defense line down?
Because flame turret range hasn't changed?

Why would you expect it to NOT work with 0.17?

true

[BlueTemplar]

Because they are leading their target now.

I don't see any examples in the above screenshots where they are violating their aiming area ?
(I'm supposing that for the first screenshot it's the turret above the selected one that is responsible for that fire ?)

[Acid_Burn9]

Because they are leading their target now.

I don't see any examples in the above screenshots where they are violating their aiming area ?

Please tell me how at least one laser turret from my screenshots is in flame turrets range?

[Ranakastrasz]

Ah, I see it now. It leads, but it leads past the wall, thus horrific failure state.
Ok, that is going to be difficult to fix.

Allow manual minimal range? Or expand minimum range significantly?
Have it check the target point for allied units? Sounds expensive to calculate, and I imagine this is why the biters all got acid immunity.

I would say to have it lead up to the point where they run into a wall, but that is just as expensive.

This is "Working as intended", but the "Intended" is definitively a problem.

Because they are leading their target now.

I don't see any examples in the above screenshots where they are violating their aiming area ?

Please tell me how at least one laser turret from my screenshots is in flame turrets range?

Look at the second image. IT shows the range, and the flamethrower is aiming precicely at the furthest back corner point, hitting those turrets.
The first image doesn't show the ranges well, but it is clearly the same problem.

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In any case, you just need to have flame turrets in the front line, not behind the laser turrets.
But yes, this looks like a violation of common sense issue.

[Acid_Burn9]

Ah, I see it now. It leads, but it leads past the wall, thus horrific failure state.
Ok, that is going to be difficult to fix.

Allow manual minimal range? Or expand minimum range significantly?
Have it check the target point for allied units? Sounds expensive to calculate, and I imagine this is why the biters all got acid immunity.

I would say to have it lead up to the point where they run into a wall, but that is just as expensive.

This is "Working as intended", but the "Intended" is definitively a problem.

Because they are leading their target now.

I don't see any examples in the above screenshots where they are violating their aiming area ?

Please tell me how at least one laser turret from my screenshots is in flame turrets range?

Look at the second image. IT shows the range, and the flamethrower is aiming precicely at the furthest back corner point, hitting those turrets.
The first image doesn't show the ranges well, but it is clearly the same problem.

-----
In any case, you just need to have flame turrets in the front line, not behind the laser turrets.
But yes, this looks like a violation of common sense issue.

No its not. Check my screenshots. None of my laser turrets are in flame turrets range. None. But they still getting destroyed.

[BlueTemplar]

I don't see why it's an issue ?
Just leave enough space between the turret coverage and non-wall stuff ?

Because they are leading their target now.

I don't see any examples in the above screenshots where they are violating their aiming area ?

Please tell me how at least one laser turret from my screenshots is in flame turrets range?

It technically isn't, except fire covers an area.
That's why even in 0.16 you better had to make a 3-spaced wall so as not to get you/your stuff burned :


EDIT : Yes, I know that in 0.17 the second line of my turrets might now burn the first line down.
But this just means that we need to be more careful with their placement ! (And I probably went overkill on that above screenshot anyway...)
Considering how powerful flame turrets are, this doesn't seem to be out of the question?

[Ranakastrasz]

No its not. Check my screenshots. None of my laser turrets are in flame turrets range. None. But they still getting destroyed.

Did you take splash radius into account?

And is the flame stream ever hitting somewhere OUTSIDE the given range?

[Acid_Burn9]

And is the flame stream ever hitting somewhere OUTSIDE the given range?

YES. Check the 1st screenshot.

[Ranakastrasz]

Yep. I see it. Or at least I see the flame patch, which is close enough.

Absolutely a problem. My guess is, then, that the check for range, that caps it at edge of range, doesn't take either minimum range, or ARC range into account. But that's just a guess.

[BlueTemplar]

And is the flame stream ever hitting somewhere OUTSIDE the given range?

YES. Check the 1st screenshot.

(I'm supposing that for the first screenshot it's the turret above the selected one that is responsible for that fire ?)

[Acid_Burn9]

And is the flame stream ever hitting somewhere OUTSIDE the given range?

YES. Check the 1st screenshot.

(I'm supposing that for the first screenshot it's the turret above the selected one that is responsible for that fire ?)

Look at 2nd screenshot. Same place, top turret selected. Some fire is still outside range.

[BlueTemplar]

I don't see it. Please edit your screenshot to highlight it?

[Acid_Burn9]

I don't see it. Please edit your screenshot to highlight it?