How to fix this bottle neck

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kyletheinilater
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How to fix this bottle neck

Post by kyletheinilater » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:42 pm

So I used to play Factorio a lot, then I stopped for a while. I have 2 questions:
1: Should I make Copper and Iron plates on their own belts with a 2 wide gap in between them and do the same with the circuits and gears?
2: Would changing my setup to Iron and Copper plates on their own "Bus" fix my bottle neck?

Bottle Neck: In this case is the I can't get Iron plates to the gear machines fast enough to maximize the efficiency of the machines. How can I fix this?
I need the gears so that I can replace all the belts in my system with Red ones.
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This is my current way of getting iron off the bus
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Skeletpiece
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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by Skeletpiece » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:49 pm

Consider this:
You can use a splitter with filter (Your iron plates) and an underground belt (Or just the splitter to split to the left side with filter applied)
Approach.PNG
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Good luck !
Last edited by Skeletpiece on Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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5thHorseman
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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by 5thHorseman » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:50 pm

1) Yes. :)
2) Yes. :)

If you're going the bus route, you should probably plan ahead and have 8+ lanes of iron and maybe 4 of copper. Both sides of the belt, so 16 "lanes" of iron. And enough room at the top to smelt that much some day.

To fix the current issue quickly, I'd remove that filter inserter and slap down a splitter, then turn on filtering and only allow iron plates out the one side. Likely, the last time you played splitters didn't have filtering, and they're a (literal) game changer.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

kyletheinilater
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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by kyletheinilater » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:42 am

You are 100% correct, Last time I did play splitters were not able to filter like this! This will literally fix all my problems(in the game at least) Thanks!

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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by kyletheinilater » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:51 am

So how do I get it to slit and go down both sides?
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Pi-C
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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by Pi-C » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:10 am

5thHorseman wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:50 pm
To fix the current issue quickly, I'd remove that filter inserter and slap down a splitter, then turn on filtering and only allow iron plates out the one side. Likely, the last time you played splitters didn't have filtering, and they're a (literal) game changer.
Bad idea, stepped into that trap myself. The OP wants to split off some of the iron for gears. It sure is tempting to slap down just one splitter -- but if you set the filter, all iron will end there, none of it will get further down the bus:
splitter1.png
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I usually do something like this if I want to split just one item off a two-items-belt:
  • Put one splitter without filters on the bus. (In: one belt [A] with one lane iron + one lane copper; Out: two belts [A and B], each with one lane iron + one lane copper)
  • Say you want to take iron out to the left: Put a second splitter on the left lane, set filter for iron with output priority "left". (Now you have three belts: A with iron + copper, B with copper, C with iron -- C branches off the bus)
  • Use a third splitter without filters to merge belts A and B again to reclaim the copper.
  • As Skeletpiece already mentioned: Use undergrounds as necessary to get adjacent belts out of the way.
splitter2.png
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A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!

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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by 5thHorseman » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:13 am

Pi-C wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:10 am
Bad idea, stepped into that trap myself. The OP wants to split off some of the iron for gears. It sure is tempting to slap down just one splitter -- but if you set the filter, all iron will end there, none of it will get further down the bus
Once the gear line backs up (because whatever's using them isn't getting plates as well) then the problem will fix itself.

Really the problem is with supply, not where the supply is going. The factory in that picture is (way way way) too big for the inputs. Making less gears will allow it to hobble along regardless, but the problem's still there.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by Skeletpiece » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:35 am

Hope this helps ;)
- No filter, but underground belt is used as a "filter"
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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by Pi-C » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:27 am

5thHorseman wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:13 am
Pi-C wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:10 am
Bad idea, stepped into that trap myself. The OP wants to split off some of the iron for gears. It sure is tempting to slap down just one splitter -- but if you set the filter, all iron will end there, none of it will get further down the bus
Once the gear line backs up (because whatever's using them isn't getting plates as well) then the problem will fix itself.
I'm afraid I don't understand you -- how would that problem fix itself? The screenshot in kyletheinilater's last post shows just what I've pointed out (sorry, my answer took too long so our posts crossed): all iron goes one way, all copper the other. It's how filter splitters work: If you're setting a filter for iron on the left output, you're not saying "left output gets iron only, right output gets everything including iron". The filter is exclusive, it works like "a) send iron to left output, b) send everything that is not iron to right output". I learned that the hard way when I used just a filter splitter once and most of my mall stopped working because I cut off the iron supply. :-)
5thHorseman wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:13 am
Really the problem is with supply, not where the supply is going. The factory in that picture is (way way way) too big for the inputs. Making less gears will allow it to hobble along regardless, but the problem's still there.
You're right, one mixed yellow belt of iron and copper isn't enough to satisfy the demand of a factory! But that wasn't my point at all -- I just wanted to demonstrate how to split a multi-item belt in such a way that part of one item (iron) branches off while the other part of that item plus everything else proceeds down the main line. So, yes, put several belts of iron on your bus, and use whatever belt (yellow, red, blue) you like to satisfy the demand! My point was that you need to split the whole belt once before you can use the filter splitter -- or you're in for a bad surprise.
A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!

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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by Pi-C » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:34 am

Skeletpiece wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:35 am
Hope this helps ;)
- No filter, but underground belt is used as a "filter"
That's definitely working, but only for the inner lane. Using a filtered splitter is more flexible because it doesn't matter what lane of the belt carries the item you want to split off.
A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!

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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by 5thHorseman » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:31 am

Pi-C wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:27 am
The screenshot in kyletheinilater's last post shows just what I've pointed out (sorry, my answer took too long so our posts crossed): all iron goes one way, all copper the other. It's how filter splitters work: If you're setting a filter for iron on the left output, you're not saying "left output gets iron only, right output gets everything including iron".
Oy, I must confess I've not played in quite some time and my memories seem foggy. I was actually very sure they DID work as you just said they don't.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by Pi-C » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:17 am

5thHorseman wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:31 am
Oy, I must confess I've not played in quite some time and my memories seem foggy. I was actually very sure they DID work as you just said they don't.
No problem, that can happen. Perhaps it would be a good idea to explain the behaviour of splitters in a tutorial or the introductory campaigns? Not sure if that is done already … Another way would be changing the ALT-overlay if filters are set on a splitter: like the icon of the filtered item on the side where the filter is set, and the same icon crossed-out on the other side. That would make it more obvious what's going on -- although it comes with the cost of additional screen clutter.
A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!

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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by Trebor » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:53 pm

It is possible to use splitters to filter the iron off and still have it passed along with the copper. Arrange three splitters as Pi-C did but set the filter on the first splitter. The first splitter places iron and copper on separate belts. The second sends half to wherever, half to third splitter. The third puts the iron back on the belt with the copper.

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Re: How to fix this bottle neck

Post by JimBarracus » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:19 pm

kyletheinilater wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:42 pm

Should I make Copper and Iron plates on their own belts
yes

use splitters and underground belts to split lanes
anyway, when you reach green sience this setup will be obsolete.
my favorite design is to have 4 parallel belts and then a gap of 2 for the yellow underground belts and then the next 4 belts.
My main bus has 20 lanes total.

My science setup eats 4 blue belts of copper and steel each.

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