Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post all other topics which do not belong to any other category.
evopwr
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:45 am

Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by evopwr » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:46 am

Okay, Firstly, I realise this suggestion may upset some people, so sorry for that, its just my opinion.

When I started, I loved the "being presented with a problem (how to make a xxx colour science for example, or rockets, etc), and spending ages/hours coming up with a design how, and then hours more on how to do it most efficiently.
Belts/inserters/modules/becacons/etc.

Backrgound:
I've now played for 1400 hours. I've got a couple gigawatt bases now, with automated everything. And i'm now playing my 6th or 7th game (and a couple with Bobs Mods).

My new games go likes this:
- Import my Blueprint Book
- Drop my BPs everywhere
- Build (or use bots to build) an exact replica of base(s) i've already built.
- get bored within a few hours.

The only thing thats kept me interested, has been:
- New versions (recipes all change)
- Mods

The whole thing I enjoyed about this game, of solving a design problem (which i think is the thing EVERYONE enjoys about this game), is gone after the first play.
And the whole reason is, because you can Import previous designs.

So, if you couldnt Import Blueprints, or blueprint books, would it make it more enjoyable?

Be constructive please :)

User avatar
Deadlock989
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:41 pm

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by Deadlock989 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:52 am

No, it would just make it more frustrating for most other people, and people would go back to using mods to do it - think I'm right in saying that blueprint imports were one of the many game features that started as a mod. Your boredom is literally not my problem. You got 1400 hours out of a £15 game. That's pretty amazing.

If importing blueprints makes the game less enjoyable for you, Don't Do That™.

Hedning1390
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:47 pm

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by Hedning1390 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:08 am

The blueprint library is shared across all games so you don't have to import anything from a string. If you feel distracted by them try deleting them, then you'll no longer have the temptation.

If you are talking about importing someone else's blueprints via the string I agree that it is bad practice, but you won't remove it by removing the feature as people can still share saves and copy from there. I have never felt the least bit tempted to use someone else's design and there's plenty of steps needed, including tabbing down the game to surf the web, so it's not as if it's in your face tempting you.

Zavian
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1071
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:57 am

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by Zavian » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:04 pm

I often play using a freshly unpacked version of the .zip download. That gives me a game without any imported blueprint (and a fresh run through the achievements). If I really want to reuse a blueprint from somewhere else I can use the import-blueprint string function.

dood
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:36 am

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by dood » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:00 pm

What is fun about reinventing the wheel over and over again?

Zavian
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1071
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:57 am

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by Zavian » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:23 pm

Different people find fun in different activities. For me the fun is in creating the layouts. Just placing the same blueprints every time means there is too little creating and build of new layouts and gets boring.

kovarex
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 6665
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by kovarex » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:52 pm

So you think that those blueprints are already perfect version of everything? That it can't be done better in any way?
Obviously, If you just copy paste your last base, there is no point in playing, but that is not the point of blueprints.

evopwr
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:45 am

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by evopwr » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:34 pm

Ok, I get what everyone is saying. Yes I don't have to use that functionality if I don't want to. Fair point.

I wasn't being critical of the game - definitely not. Its one of my most favourite games!

I was purely thinking of the looming 1.0, and what could make this game even better.
kovarex wrote:So you think that those blueprints are already perfect version of everything? That it can't be done better in any way?
Obviously, If you just copy paste your last base, there is no point in playing, but that is not the point of blueprints.
Thanks Kovarex, of course theyre not perfect designs, and can always do them better. But can you elaborate what the point of blueprints is then? (or more specifically, the importing of blueprints).
Surely that's exactly what the import function is for? Re-using designs you've already done, so you don't have to do them again - OR, using someone elses designs.

Personally I find both of those reduce the enjoyment. But I appreciate that some people aren't interested in re-doing designs, or doing their own. I think Zavian nailed it on the head - some people find fun in doing different activities.

I guess one could liken this to bots vs belts debate. Some people get different enjoyment. Personally I try very hard to not uses logistic bots, except for supplying me only. The belt design is crucial to my enjoyment. So I suppose therefore I should take that same approach to not importing blueprints.
As I said, my only reason for this discussion was to make Factorio better - not to offend people. Apologies for that.

Cheers,

Hannu
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:27 am

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by Hannu » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:17 am

evopwr wrote: Thanks Kovarex, of course theyre not perfect designs, and can always do them better. But can you elaborate what the point of blueprints is then? (or more specifically, the importing of blueprints).
Surely that's exactly what the import function is for? Re-using designs you've already done, so you don't have to do them again - OR, using someone elses designs.

Personally I find both of those reduce the enjoyment.
I think exactly like you. I do not use blueprint importing. I like to do things little bit differently, and on the other hand, I am not interested to build huge megabases with million copies of production chains.

However, before importing was implemented in vanilla game there were popular mods and many players wanted to that possibility. It is now programmed and do not use developer's resources anymore. I do not see reason to remove that functionality because it does not prevent any gaming style. Just do not use it if you do not like it and let others play with their own styles and modsets. In my opinion it is Factorio's strength that there are so many so different styles to play it even I restrict myself to certain things.
As I said, my only reason for this discussion was to make Factorio better - not to offend people. Apologies for that.
No problem. It is so easy to think only own style and needs. Probably all of us have tendency to do so.

zOldBulldog
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by zOldBulldog » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:43 am

Different people enjoy different things. Some like to do it all themselves. Others like to just grab a blueprint and be done. Others, like me (with a science/engineering mindset of incremental improvement) like to grab the best 2-3 blueprints out there, analyze them, understand the benefits and disantages of their component approaches and only then attempt to customize "my own version).

In other words, choice is good.

If the OP enjoys not using/sharing blueprints, all he has to do is stop using the import and export function.

SirLANsalot
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:38 pm

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by SirLANsalot » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:29 am

I am accustomed to the times before BP's could be imported, or even existed. As such I have most of my deigns memorized and know exactly how to place them every time, spacing and all. I could BP them, but I don't as I usually see BP's as something for the later game when you have bots to build the BP's. Hand building the BP is...silly, I guess?

Things I DO use BP's for are Trains, when trying to keep with a certain train size, all the stops ect need to remain the same. I also use them for T and + crossings as well, so I don't have to keep remembering how to lay them out the more complex they get. Also I use BP's for remote scanning bases once i get accumulators, 8 solar and 4 acc with a radar surrounded with walls and 4 turrets (one on each corner) work real well for passively exploring the map.


Currently I am playing Bobs+Angles plus a few extra mods of my own liking. So any of my old designs are null and void, since...well...copper/iron/stone do not exist on the map.


And to be honest, I forget I even have BP's half the time.

deer_buster
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:35 am

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by deer_buster » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:32 am

Dunno how most other people do it, but I probably spend at least 3x more time utilizing Creative Mode mod to optimize layouts for my current game, than I spend in my actual game. If I couldn't utilize the blueprint library to save my work between the different instances, I would be really kind of irritated and probably quit playing altogether.

rldml
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:38 am

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by rldml » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:35 am

deer_buster wrote:Dunno how most other people do it, but I probably spend at least 3x more time utilizing Creative Mode mod to optimize layouts for my current game, than I spend in my actual game. If I couldn't utilize the blueprint library to save my work between the different instances, I would be really kind of irritated and probably quit playing altogether.
I can't speak for the majority of people either, but for me it is a part of the game to gather ressources to make better solutions for future outposts in the same game, so i don't use the CM and use blueprints rarely. To be precise: bp only for belt-balancers, because i have really no idea why a 6x8-Balancer has to be like it is recommend in the wiki and how they calculate the throughput (if someone has a link for me where somebody explain this on a very basic level -> please tell me :) ). Same for nearly every other balancer in the game.

The only one purpose i would open the creative mode would be if i want to check a self written mod against something i usually don't use in my own savegames.

Greetings, Ronny

edit: Dr. Google is your friend: https://github.com/reversefold/factorio ... /README.md

this is exactly what i searched for.

Tricorius
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:04 pm

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by Tricorius » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:59 am

I can understand your feelings in this matter, but I have a question.

Assume you get your way. Blueprints imports are magically gone. You say you have 1400 hours so I assume you have been past the rocket launch phase where things start to get tedious to build. Does the removal of imports *really* change your enjoyment of the game you just played?

You have gone back through and recreated a bunch of new designs to build the new factory.

Does it really look much different than your other factories?

Now, yours might...I’m not sure, which is why I’m asking. Mine have not. I find myself tending toward building similar designs to what I’ve previously built (comfort zone). I find I have to specifically, consciously challenge myself to really have anything out of *my* ordinary.

I like having blueprint import / universal library since it helps me jet through the parts of the game I find less exciting. I find myself creating new Death Worlds for the challenge. You must quickly and wisely run through early game to tech up enough to expand and defend enough resources to not slowly starve yourself. Blueprints are nice to move quickly in this situation.

I also have a high-functioning autistic son who gets stressed/frustrated quickly. His early attempts at the game were lackluster and he gave up. But he saw me using blueprints and decided to give it another shot. It helped him get far enough to have fun and get past the frustration.

:: shrug :: Remember, not everyone has the skills, knowledge, or thought process you do. And something you find annoying might be the entire reason they can even play the game in the first place.

This is one of the reasons I consider Wube to be one of the greatest game dev studios I’ve ever had the pleasure to toss some money at. ;)

zOldBulldog
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by zOldBulldog » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:18 am

Excellent points Tricorius.

I might add some well known wisdom:. Most great inventions were made by improving the previous ones.

My favorite blueprints are usually those that I created by studying 2 or 3 other blueprints and combining their best attributes to into my own.

dood
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:36 am

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by dood » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:40 am

It's also not like you don't have macro to worry about if you stamp down the micro and some people find things like making a train network more enjoyable than making the 10th green circuits factory from scratch.
That's not "puzzle", that's tedium.

User avatar
MeduSalem
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1290
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by MeduSalem » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:52 pm

There is only so many times you can reinvent the wheel before you would get bored to death.

User avatar
DRY411S
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:48 am

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by DRY411S » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:26 pm

Given that what you can, and cannot, do with blueprints (including disabling the Blueprint GUI completely) is part of the permissions system, it would be fairly easy I would have thought for the devs to include some blueprint options at the start of each map?

Making it optional at the start of a map would be a good compromise perhaps? And you can then use the permissions system at the console to change your mind part way through a map.
blueprintpermissions.PNG
blueprintpermissions.PNG (47.82 KiB) Viewed 1630 times

HalfPastZulu
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:37 pm

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by HalfPastZulu » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:04 am

Wow!
I am always amazed when others ask for game features to be removed that are totally optional in the first place.

When you start a new game...
Don't Use YOUR blueprints.
Delete YOUR blueprints not Everyone's.
Make new blueprints.
Improve blueprints.

I think its mentioned already but do you think your blueprints are so perfect that they need no improvements?


So many options for YOU to choose from there is no need to dictate how everyone plays based on your playing style.

evopwr
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:45 am

Re: Remove Blueprint Importing?

Post by evopwr » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:29 pm

Its not about making it more enjoyable for me.

I was considering what would make the game better overall.

Think of other games. If you could click a button, and bases just built themselves the same as before - would they be as enjoyable?

In ARK, Conan, Minecraft, Outpost Zero, or many others examples, or any other base building game (hundreds to chose from!) - one of the core enjoyable parts IS the base building. That's one of the most hugely successful genres at the moment. Base Building. You wont see ANY other base building game have a button to "redo what you built last time", because it totally detracts from the fundamental purpose and enjoyment of the game.

I can play how I want, so its not about making it more enjoyable for me. I just think it would be more successful, where more people keep playing again and again, if this option wasn't available in the vanilla game.
What % of people play more than 100 hours? I'm guessing less than 5%? I'm just thinking about what can be done to increase that, and make it enjoyable to keep playing.

Post Reply

Return to “General discussion”