Factorio should have DLC.

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Hellatze
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Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Hellatze » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:56 pm

Why factorio should have DLC ?

Take example of paradox game. Like crusader king. The game are finished, but the development still continue for 5 years. The DLC keep the game alive and adding more feature to the game.

This game could take example from paradox games. More money on development, and people will buy it for sure. More money : more development to be added in this game.

As long the DLC have a feature that worth the price. Developer could add free featirw if you want. But one thing to be sure.

Think realisticly and not think idealistic. Because money are important, you could hire freelancer to code, making asset, etc

I dont mind dev want to add cosmetic dlc (i dont want it though).

Face it. If you want to make game grow, you should have DLC in your game.

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by CureSafaia » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:03 pm

I actually like the fact that factorio does not have DLC, the price is right and its a selling point in my opinion.

To me, Paradox is not a good example on DLC, when I see crusader kings 2 or europa universalis 4 I'm actually too scared to have an empty base game so I don't buy them, and according to reviews on some of their games, they do sometimes ship an empty base game with expensive DLC.

That said I don't really mind an expansion if it's nicely done, but I don't see how they could make that for factorio.
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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Hellatze » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:20 pm

CureSafaia wrote:I actually like the fact that factorio does not have DLC, the price is right and its a selling point in my opinion.

To me, Paradox is not a good example on DLC, when I see crusader kings 2 or europa universalis 4 I'm actually too scared to have an empty base game so I don't buy them, and according to reviews on some of their games, they do sometimes ship an empty base game with expensive DLC.

That said I don't really mind an expansion if it's nicely done, but I don't see how they could make that for factorio.
I rather let factorio have dlc so the development become stable and more big feature to be added.

Customer are limited. Probably few people buy this game for next 2-3 year. And they have to pay their crew.

I disregard no dlc policy. If they suddenly stop developing for 6 months (or forever) because they have no money, thats bad.

I am fine as long they sell 10 - 15 $ dlc. But have a big feature in it.

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Nova » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:47 pm

You try to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Neither does Wube Software have any money problems, nor is the game development stalled. The game isn't even finished yet, so especially when it will be released a big amount of new players will surely buy it. There's no need to discuss DLCs now when the game isn't even finished. Maybe in 2 years we could have this discussion.
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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Jap2.0 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:10 pm

Hellatze wrote:Why factorio should have DLC ?

Take example of paradox game. Like crusader king. The game are finished,
Factorio development is not finished.
Hellatze wrote:but the development still continue for 5 years.
Factorio development is continuing.
Hellatze wrote:The DLC keep the game alive and adding more feature to the game.
Factorio is alive and more features are being added.
Hellatze wrote:This game could take example from paradox games. More money on development, and people will buy it for sure. More money : more development to be added in this game.
However, DLC would take development away from the main game, which isn't even finished. Also, I think they are fine for money, considering they're a company of ~17 people and have sold over 1.2 million copies (=$24+ million), over 1.1 million ($22+ million) of which was in the last two years. Ignoring that they've hired people in the last two years and that they have other costs than salaries (which may or may not balance themselves out to some extent), they could easily pay everyone over $640,000 per year. The average annual salary in the U.S. is $81,400. Obviously this is majorly simplifying it, but I doubt they're hurting for money. They also do sell the soundtrack, which is considered a DLC.
Hellatze wrote:As long the DLC have a feature that worth the price. Developer could add free featirw if you want. But one thing to be sure.

Think realisticly and not think idealistic. Because money are important, you could hire freelancer to code, making asset, etc
Again: that would take development away from the base game, which isn't even complete, and I'm sure that improving te base game will also bring in money, and I doubt it's an extremely major concern of theirs right now.
Hellatze wrote:I dont mind dev want to add cosmetic dlc (i dont want it though).

Face it. If you want to make game grow, you should have DLC in your game.
No. Factorio is growing quite well as it is, and I'm sure that releasing 1.0 (if/when) will cause significant growth, and DLC usually waits uuntil after the base game is finished.
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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by steinio » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:48 pm

There are a lot DLCs (downloadable content)s - they are called mods.
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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Tekky » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:50 pm

I have nothing against Factorio having a non-free expansion pack or maybe two, if that will help fund further development of the game. However, I am against such DLC being added shortly after release. Maybe two years after Factorio is officially released would be a good time for a first expansion pack.

Generally, I don't like games that offer you all kinds of of different DLC, where you are milked for money for every new feature added to the game.

I think the publisher Paradox is a good example of how I don't want DLC. With many of their games, I get the feeling that they are just bare-bones that are intended as a skeleton for all future DLC that will follow. In the case of Paradox's games "Crusader Kings 2" and "Europa Universal 4", you have to spend several hundred Euros on DLC if you want to own the full games.

In the case of Factorio, I am sure that Wube will never adopt such a DLC policy. :)

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Daid » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:34 pm

Hellatze wrote:More money on development, and people will buy it for sure. More money : more development to be added in this game.
Common mistake in software development. Throwing more money and people at a problem does not give a better end result.

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Caine » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:51 pm

Perhaps down the road a factorio 2, but no DLC please. As far as I am concerned, the whole idea of DLC should die in a fire.

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Frightning » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:36 am

I see no real reason for Factorio to ever have DLC. The game is, by nature, a complete package, and because it's highly moddable, anything beyond the base game people want can be made for the game for free, so there's really no market for DLC for the game. As for the devs continuing to make money, I think their best course would be to start work on a new game, one that uses many of the same features and underlying code that Factorio does, but is also not really Factorio 2, rather what's known as a 'spiritual sequel'. There's still, imo, a lot of unexplored design space for a Factorio-like game.

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Aeternus » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:34 am

Factorio -has- DLC (it stands for Downloadable Content). A lot of it, and it's free. It's accessible via the mod portal, and some mods (Bobs/Angels for instance) radically change the game, increasing the replay value.

If you're looking to throw extra money at the development of the game, I'm sure the devs have a means to - heck, just buy another copy of the game if you're that happy. But chopping up game content to sell it piecemeal is something I despise, and is one of the reasons why I'm no longer bothering with AAA games. It's one of the things that made me find Factorio initially.

Besides, Factorio isn't even out of it's alpha stage yet. We're playing an expirimental game version that is still being worked on/bugfixed/polished.

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by JimBarracus » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:14 am

+1 for lootboxes
+1 for weapon skins
+1 for hats
+1 for putting free mods behind a paywall

[/irony]

if you want to support development just buy the soundtrack

Edit: Suggestion
A timer how long factorio development could go on considering running costs and the stacks of money they have.
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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Hellatze » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:40 pm

Jap2.0 wrote:
Hellatze wrote:Why factorio should have DLC ?

Take example of paradox game. Like crusader king. The game are finished,
Factorio development is not finished.
Hellatze wrote:but the development still continue for 5 years.
Factorio development is continuing.
Hellatze wrote:The DLC keep the game alive and adding more feature to the game.
Factorio is alive and more features are being added.
Hellatze wrote:This game could take example from paradox games. More money on development, and people will buy it for sure. More money : more development to be added in this game.
However, DLC would take development away from the main game, which isn't even finished. Also, I think they are fine for money, considering they're a company of ~17 people and have sold over 1.2 million copies (=$24+ million), over 1.1 million ($22+ million) of which was in the last two years. Ignoring that they've hired people in the last two years and that they have other costs than salaries (which may or may not balance themselves out to some extent), they could easily pay everyone over $640,000 per year. The average annual salary in the U.S. is $81,400. Obviously this is majorly simplifying it, but I doubt they're hurting for money. They also do sell the soundtrack, which is considered a DLC.
Hellatze wrote:As long the DLC have a feature that worth the price. Developer could add free featirw if you want. But one thing to be sure.

Think realisticly and not think idealistic. Because money are important, you could hire freelancer to code, making asset, etc
Again: that would take development away from the base game, which isn't even complete, and I'm sure that improving te base game will also bring in money, and I doubt it's an extremely major concern of theirs right now.
Hellatze wrote:I dont mind dev want to add cosmetic dlc (i dont want it though).

Face it. If you want to make game grow, you should have DLC in your game.
No. Factorio is growing quite well as it is, and I'm sure that releasing 1.0 (if/when) will cause significant growth, and DLC usually waits uuntil after the base game is finished.
This topic are open when factorio arw finished.

(But when ?)

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Hellatze » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:42 pm

JimBarracus wrote:+1 for lootboxes
+1 for weapon skins
+1 for hats
+1 for putting free mods behind a paywall

[/irony]

if you want to support development just buy the soundtrack

Edit: Suggestion
A timer how long factorio development could go on considering running costs and the stacks of money they have.
Image
You are not a game developer. And developing game are expensive. Buying license for software, pay tax, pay crew, pay electricity, etc.

That huge pile of money could wasted faster than you imagine. And this game are 1 IP game.

You never open your mind. Didn't you ?

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Hellatze » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:43 pm

Caine wrote:Perhaps down the road a factorio 2, but no DLC please. As far as I am concerned, the whole idea of DLC should die in a fire.
Factorio 2 are fine.


I am ok with DLC. As they are cheap.

But expansion pack are the same as DLC (downloadable content)

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Hellatze » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:44 pm

steinio wrote:There are a lot DLCs (downloadable content)s - they are called mods.
No. Mod remains as a mod.

Dont use mod as excuse to stop developing a feature.

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by HurkWurk » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:54 am

people tend to forget what DLC is... DLC is not money. DLC is DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT.
ie content that was not included on the original "gold" release CD/DVD that games shipped on.
at some point, the shitballs at EA, etc, decided that charging people even more money to keep playing the game they shipped before it was finished, was a good way to do business.
here is a clue, its not, it never has been, regardless of the profits it shows, its at best deceptive, and at worst, pure dishonest.

what we want is expansions. things that add a whole new concept to Factorio that dont simply add a little bit more to the base game (we already have that DLC.. its called player mods!)
but something like "space" and traveling between worlds, etc, that could be an expansion idea, etc.

to me, Factorio is worth more than i paid for it. to make up for that, i look to things like purchasing a Tshirt, or the dev appreciation thread.

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by JimBarracus » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:34 am

Hellatze wrote:You are not a game developer. And developing game are expensive. Buying license for software, pay tax, pay crew, pay electricity, etc.

That huge pile of money could wasted faster than you imagine. And this game are 1 IP game.

You never open your mind. Didn't you ?
No, I'm not a developer, but I am aware of running costs.
I guess monthly costs will be 100k for everything.

They might be able to keep going for a while, depending on future sales, but there will be a point, when new sales won't cover running costs anymore.
Development has to stop at a certain point and I guess they have a smart guy who wants to use some money for the next project.

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Caine » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:32 am

HurkWurk wrote:people tend to forget what DLC is... DLC is not money. DLC is DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT.
Strictly speaking you are right, but language is a living thing. As you stated, companies like EA have warped the meaning of the word and unfortunately it is utilised in the EA way more often than in the original meaning of the word (which would apply to e.g. Factorio mods).

In case of paid DLC, it is not a given anymore that players can play together as both parties will require the DLC. Usually DLC is the equivalent of a micro-expansion pack. This will splinter the community quickly. If any content is added later (Factorio is not even finished yet), then larger expansion packs (or a successor game) is to be preferred.

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Re: Factorio should have DLC.

Post by Peter34 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:10 am

CureSafaia wrote:I actually like the fact that factorio does not have DLC, the price is right and its a selling point in my opinion.

To me, Paradox is not a good example on DLC, when I see crusader kings 2 or europa universalis 4 I'm actually too scared to have an empty base game so I don't buy them, and according to reviews on some of their games, they do sometimes ship an empty base game with expensive DLC.

That said I don't really mind an expansion if it's nicely done, but I don't see how they could make that for factorio.
Paradox games with DLC are fine, because for games older than about a year or a year-and-a-half, most people don't buy them at full price, but rather wait until there's a sale.

Hearts of Iron 4 has 3 DLC packs, 1 recently released. Last week I bought the core plus the 2 older DLC at a -56% discount, and then I also bought the new DLC at full price, on Steam. This enabled me to "buy into" the game at what I think may be a reasonable price.

Likewise with Crusader Kings 2, about 2 or 2.5 years ago, I bought the core game at a -75% discount as well as a DLC pack also at a -75% discount, at a key reseller site (this was before I realized that keys resellers were evil). This got me everything I wanted, including all the content DLC except possibly the latest (which I then bought seperately IIRC - it was a while ago), including the one DLC I didn't want, Sunset Invasion which is just far too AH for my tastes (but which is easy to disable).

The model works. But it's reliant upon frequent sales at hefty discounts. Even if Paradox has stopped doing -75% discounts, the -56% discount was still the deal-maker for me. I would *not* have bought into HoI4 at full price.

I might have Stellaris, though, if I hadn*t been into it from day one. That's a good game. Far better than CK2 or HoI4.

It's also interesting to note that for the last many, many months, probably over a year, the only computer games I've spent any time on have been EA ones: Factorio, They are Billions, Subnautica, 7 Days to Die, Stellaris and HoI4. Games that remain in a state of continous change (or continous forward motion) as the developers add new content and features, and fix bugs, and add new bugs and then fix those.

It's just sad that only the Factorio devs have the total *banzai* attitude of "All Bugs Must Die Now!".

It's really spoiled me. Stellaris 2.0 came out 19 days ago, and there are *still* bugs from the 2.0 release that haven't been fixed, possibly haven't even been acknowledged.

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