[0.16.16] massive numbers of biter nests close to spawn area

[SyNali]

after finishing the base campaign yesterday, i meant to jump into freeplay mode today. but all maps i generate have overwhelming numbers of biter nests. this was on 0.15.40 initially, but i tried it in 0.16.16 as well, hoping the problem might have already been resolved in the latest experimental release.
searching this forum, i found two threads that i think might be related, but since i'm unsure, i decided to make a new thread.

i tested a large number of generated maps, and with different combinations of enemy base settings. as best as i can tell, the settings do affect the number and size of the bases as they should, but overall number and size are always way beyond what i believe they are intended to be, even with low settings. switching to 0.16.16 also slightly reduced them, i believe (as is mentioned in the patch notes), but nowhere near enough.


i took a couple screenshots in map editor mode, since it allows me to zoom out far and move the camera around freely, so i can test a bunch of generated maps without having to explore each map on foot. i did do a few tests in actual freeplay mode as well though, and the problem seems to be the same.

the first of these screenshots is from 0.15.40, the second from 0.16.16. in both cases, enemy base frequency is set to "normal", size to "very small", and richness to "regular". starting area is set to "medium". pollution/evolution/expansion settings are all untouched at their "default"-preset values.

biters15.jpg (948.36 KiB) Viewed 3930 times

biters16.jpg (820.52 KiB) Viewed 3930 times

the positions seen are quite close to player spawn point; specifically, i zoomed out to max at the spawn position, let the terrain visible on-screen generate, then moved the camera to generate a screen of new terrain directly bordering the terrain at the spawn camera position. so it's not so close that i would immediately get attacked at the start, but by the time i would need to establish my first outlying mining base, i would likely have to take out literally hundreds of nests just to make room for a single rail line connecting that mining base to my main base.
testing in freeplay, it takes about 1-2 minutes of exploring on foot to run into bases of 10+ nests, with a bunch of such bases grouped fairly close together.


since i'm still new to the game, i initially thought this might be intended, and i just need to figure out how to deal with that number of nests. so i asked two friends who have more experience with the game, and they've both said this is definitely not normal.

i tried a clean reinstall of the game (uninstalling the game itself and manually deleting the folder in appdata), but it didn't change anything.
and i should maybe also clarify that i have not edited any games files in any way, nor used any mods at any point.

unfortunately, i don't have any more details on how to reproduce the issue beyond "this happens on every map i generate". the only way i've found to avoid the issue is to set enemy base size to "none", which does correctly prevent any nests from spawning anywhere at all. :/

[Klonan]

Thanks for the report,

It is very odd, can you provide a log file?

[Ubertwink]

Funny because I had an issue of generating very small amount of biters no matter which settings I used. Tested on the same map seed - all apeared in the same locations.

[SyNali]

can you provide a log file?

sure. :]

Funny because I had an issue of generating very small amount of biters no matter which settings I used. Tested on the same map seed - all apeared in the same locations.

yeah, that would honestly keep me from playing just like this issue. i could just disable biters entirely, but if they're no challenge, it gets boring too.

[Klonan]

can you provide a log file?

sure. :]

Funny because I had an issue of generating very small amount of biters no matter which settings I used. Tested on the same map seed - all apeared in the same locations.

yeah, that would honestly keep me from playing just like this issue. i could just disable biters entirely, but if they're no challenge, it gets boring too.

Could you generate a map with too many biters, and send it here?

[SyNali]

Could you generate a map with too many biters, and send it here?

yup, i attached them (i assume you meant saved maps, not just seeds?). again all settings are at default values, except enemy base size being set to "very small".


i also did some more testing and talked with a 3rd person who's played the game, and now i'm not sure what to believe anymore.. that person says this seems fine. and i'm pretty sure 0.16.16 really did reduce the average number by a decent amount. one possible explanation i can think of is that the numbers are fine in general, but the "very small" size setting just isn't working properly -- so there's more nests than there should be with that setting, but not more than there should be in a game with default size setting.

i made a few more screenshots (from the two maps i have attached as well), connected them side-by-side, and marked the player spawn position in blue:

bitertest1540.jpg (1.49 MiB) Viewed 3842 times

bitertest1616.jpg (1.39 MiB) Viewed 3842 times

so does this seem too much, or am i just clueless? it certainly has enough safe space for a large base at the spawn point, but wouldn't i need to expand beyond a large number of these bases for any decently sized mining base, especially with reduced resource frequency in 0.16.16 and/or "railworld"-preset? and if so, would i be able to clear out several 10-50 nest bases at that point in the game's progression, with the resources available in the starting area?

if that is intended behaviour, i appologize for reporting it as a bug, and i'll just have to learn how to deal with it in-game ^^. but since the two people i spoke to yesterday also said this seemed way too many nests, i was sure something was wrong.

[mp0011]

I had similar problem generating rail world, but with the water size/frequency and starting area size combinations.
It looked like the controllers was reversed or shifted. Or overflowed.

[Rseding91]

Thanks for the report. The amount of biters you're seeing is completely normal.

[SyNali]

okay, thanks. sorry for reporting is as a bug. :/