[0.16.6] Can't place rails over rail blueprint

[Cutemine]

Hey!

after adding some rail blueprints using the rail planner, I was unable to place an actual rail piece on the blueprint and I instead got a red cross cursor like I was using the deconstruction planner. Placing rails right next to the blueprint worked fine, as did starting them somewhere else and click-dragging them over the blueprint. Once the fist part was set down, i could then place other rails using the small arrow on the first bit.

See this video for details: https://youtu.be/ciFqqRVBW0I

Win7 64bit Steam version no mods

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[Klonan]

It seems you are just using it incorrectly

[Ranakastrasz]

More usefully stated, you clicked on the end of the rail, and the arrow pointed down. As such, it was trying to build downwards, while you were trying to get it to build upwards

Start one tile up higher, and make sure the arrow faces down, place the last one, then do it again, facing up, and you can build it fine.

Hope that helps.

[Cutemine]

Well I did some more testing:

As mentioned, there are workarounds and I can place rails 1 block away from the original one in the direction the arrow appears. But this still requires two actions instead of one. The normal user experience is something like "see ghost, pick item in question, place it on ghost" this does not work here. Also, the problem exists on all railghosts, not just the one on the end. This might confuse or frustrate players while trying to build rails.

Or said in other words: If you have a ghost / blueprint which is exactly 1 part, then it is impossible to manually place this part without adding an extra piece where no ghost was placed beside it and then add the rail or delete the ghost: https://youtu.be/7GpOa1Whp2E

I think the problem is that the ghosts / blueprints show the arrows in the first place and want you to go in the special rail building mode instead of allowing you to place the item normally.

[Zavian]

I think it's just a matter of getting used to the rail laying mechanics. Building rail is slightly different to building belts or assemblers, as once you place a piece of rail, the game wants to help you place a connected section of track. You might find it easier to learn these mechanics by building some freehand sections of straight rail, then curves and loops, before trying to copy a blueprint.

[Cutemine]

I do know how to place rails and I'm fairly used to it Normally my bots place them for me anyways. But I still find it odd that I can't manually replace a ghost with the real rail without going to the adjacent one and using its "arrow mode" there.
Update: I just went back to 0.15.40 and tested it there: exact same behavior. so i guess it has "always" been this way and I just never noticed. It's still very weird.

[Ranakastrasz]

I do know how to place rails and I'm fairly used to it Normally my bots place them for me anyways. But I still find it odd that I can't manually replace a ghost with the real rail without going to the adjacent one and using its "arrow mode" there.

I agree. This really should be reposted in "Suggestions"
"Snap to placing rails inside ghost images."...
Also snap to placing EVERYTHING into ghost images, because why limit it to rails.

Well I did some more testing:

As mentioned, there are workarounds and I can place rails 1 block away from the original one in the direction the arrow appears. But this still requires two actions instead of one. The normal user experience is something like "see ghost, pick item in question, place it on ghost" this does not work here. Also, the problem exists on all railghosts, not just the one on the end. This might confuse or frustrate players while trying to build rails.

Or said in other words: If you have a ghost / blueprint which is exactly 1 part, then it is impossible to manually place this part without adding an extra piece where no ghost was placed beside it and then add the rail or delete the ghost: https://youtu.be/7GpOa1Whp2E

I think the problem is that the ghosts / blueprints show the arrows in the first place and want you to go in the special rail building mode instead of allowing you to place the item normally.

Yea, I agree. Except that there is no reason to ever have a single rail section. You need like 3 or 4 for the pseudo-chest sorter-filter thingy with a railcar and many inserters.

overall, not quite user-friendly, but given I ended up building a rail backwards by having the arrow face backwards before I tried using blueprints for it, I never had the issue of not KNOWING how to get around this issue. It still exists, but is minor enough I don't really notice it.

[Cutemine]

Yea, I agree. Except that there is no reason to ever have a single rail section.

Well except one gets destroyed by biters or something like that...

[Ranakastrasz]

Yea, I agree. Except that there is no reason to ever have a single rail section.

Well except one gets destroyed by biters or something like that...

In which case you still have other rails around it to build off of.

[Cutemine]

well, the fact if a single rail is usefull or nessesary or whatever has nothing to do with the underlying problem that it cannot be placed under the described circumstances. However there is an easy enough workaround so I don't really mind.

[Ranakastrasz]

well, the fact if a single rail is usefull or nessesary or whatever has nothing to do with the underlying problem that it cannot be placed under the described circumstances. However there is an easy enough workaround so I don't really mind.

The described circumstances only ever occur in such a case where a single rail might be useful. As there are no cases where a single rail would be useful (since we don't need stations to write on the map anymore) It should not really be considered a problem.

[Cutemine]

The single rail is only the extreme example. The general case is still "broken". Imagine the situation like this (which is by the way what happened to me):
Place one rail as your start. Plan the way somewhere far away while walking there using the rail planner. Having reached your end, notice "oh, I don't even have bots yet, oh well lets build it manually then". Try to place a rail on the last planned segment to build while walking back -> "error" occurs.

Or like this: You get a bueprint fromsomwehere and want to "fill it in" -> you always have to start at an offset and unnecessarily "paint" in at least two directions to get everything.

[Ranakastrasz]

The single rail is only the extreme example. The general case is still "broken". Imagine the situation like this (which is by the way what happened to me):
Place one rail as your start. Plan the way somewhere far away while walking there using the rail planner. Having reached your end, notice "oh, I don't even have bots yet, oh well lets build it manually then". Try to place a rail on the last planned segment to build while walking back -> "error" occurs.

Or like this: You get a bueprint fromsomwehere and want to "fill it in" -> you always have to start at an offset and unnecessarily "paint" in at least two directions to get everything.

Alright, I see and agree with that. Admittedly I never had issues with it since I figured out how it works, but I do see what you are talking about.