Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Smart setups of railway stations, intelligent routing, solutions to complex train-routing problems.
Please provide - only if it makes sense of course - a blueprint of your creation.
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Odhrean
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Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean »

After reading and thinking of a alot of great Designs others came with i made a Blueprint Book for a modular Railway System and working LTN-Stations which fit together.
I share it here if someone want to use it.

I use the great Mod Logistic Train Network (LTN) and all Stations in the Blueprints are built around it.
I was inspired by the Chunked-aligned Railway-System from quinor.

Required Versions for Station-Blueprints (Railway-Blueprints should work in any Vanilla Version):
  • Factorio: 0.15.18+
  • Logistic Train Network: 1.3+
    Changelog
    • 1.6.2: Universal-Provider -> fixed disconnected circuit cable on third waggon
    • 1.6.1: BugFix: UraniumOre-Outpost, sulfuric acid resupply-threshold changed from 5k to 20k to prevent half empty trains
    • 1.6: Depot-Changes:
      - 2-Stack Inserter for faster unload of remains in waggons
      - Moved Inserters and electric poles to make room for an optional Roboport
      - Added constant combinator to fast-change the fuel
      Re-Worked Mining and UraniumOre Outposts: reduced combinator-count (Outposts where missing in 1.5 update)
    • 1.5: Re-Worked all Stations and reduced the Combinator-Count, making the Stations simplier and more robust.
      Removed the inbuilt 4-Belt Balancer on the Bulk-Stations as a 8 Belt-Balancer at the end was required anyway.
      At the freed space all In- and Outgoing Belts are tight together now,makes it easier to attach a belt balancer. Required 8 Belt-Balancers are included in the book now.
      Universal Requester and Provider have more Chests now and a higher throughput
      Added 3 Stations for Load/Unload at Red/Blue Belts in a straight Railway line for Items which are needed in smaller quantities.
      Added Liquid-Loading Station for 1 Wagon
      Added 3 Liquid Unloading Stations for 3 Liquids in a straight Railway line
      Added Liquid Outpost Station on a Straight Line
      Removed Nixie Tubes from Blueprints, added a combinator with Green/Red Color Output which can be used to hover over and see fill-level or attach lamps.
      Bulk Provider Stations now use the "Locked Slots per Wagon" Signal to Block 2 Slots so Inserters don't have an items when train is leaving.
      Reduced Request-Amount at Request-Stations to leave always 2 Slots per Chest free so all Trains can always unload fully
    • 1.4: Added Uranium Outpost Station
      Added Liquid Loading Station for only 1 Waggon for Small Quantities (i.e. Light Oil for Perimeter Walls, acid sulfur for Mining)
      Fixed Re-Supply Bug at Outpost Stations
      Added Cables to every Nixie Tube Sign to allow proper Rotating
      Added Short Station Exit Modules
      Added Railway-Version with Red/Green Wires Connection (Overlapping Power-Poles)
      Changed Liquid Loading to leave Train correctly and not pump until train is full if Delivery Size is less than full
      Edited "Station Module" Graphics to explain the new Station Parts better
      Fixed Bug (Negative Request-Threshold on Fluid-Unload Station)
    • 1.3: Compatible with Factorio 0.15.18 and LTN 1.3.x
      Added Chunk-aligned Cross
      Add Universal Stations and Mine-Outpost
      Replaced Lamps in Stations for Fill-Level with Nixie Tubes
    • 1.1: Re-Worked the Curve, Straight and T-Junction Parts. T-Junction now with better Throughput (see Post below)
    Railway Modules
    The benefit of building chunk-aligned is that you can start building from any place on the map and the Railways always fit when they meet.
    To place the railway-parts in the correct chunk it is very helpful to display the tile-grid.
    Hit F4 and enable "show-tile-grid" either in the tab "always" (but that is a bit nasty) or in the tab "basic". In "basic" disable all other checked infos.
    Now you can hit F5 and show/hide the grid when you build railways :D

    The Railway Module Parts are
    Railway-Modules
    I changed the straight rail and T-Junction so that is easily possible to extend an existing Rail by pasting a T-Junction blueprint over it... it fits now.
    You can paste Curve, T-Junction, Straight and Crossing and extend an existing Railway easily :)
    Pasting Parts over each other
    If you want use this Blueprint-Book... here is it (I separated the Railway-Parts and the Stations for easier Building)
    Railway-Blueprint Book v1.3
    This Version of the Railway-Parts have Red/Green Wires on overlapping Power-Poles to automatically connect on blueprinting
    BB_Railways_v1.3_Wires.txt
    (10.55 KiB) Downloaded 1019 times
    It is also available at factorioprints.com (btw: great site to search for blueprints ;) )
    LTN-Stations
    I designed LTN-Stations for <LCCCC<L Trains (Both Locomotives facing the same Direction)

    The Station Module Parts are (all Parts fit together and can plugged to make a modular Station):
    • Station Entry / Exit
    • Loading Station for Bulk-Items in 4 Variations: Red/Blue-Belt, Loading Facing Forward, Loading Facing Backwards
    • Unloading Station for Bulk-Items in 4 Variations: Red/Blue-Belt, Loading Facing Forward, Loading Facing Backwards
    • Liquid Loading for 4 Wagon and 1 Wagon (for acid sulfur and light oil etc.) Stations
    • Liquid Unloading Station
    • Wating Bays
    • Player Station (removed from Version 1.4 as a Player can go to any Station without worrying the train is loaded with bulk stuff)
    • LTN Depot
    Every Station must be attached to the Railway System with the Station/Depot-Entry Module and for every Station a Waiting Bay should be placed like this:
    Station-EntryExit
    The Loading/Unloading Station must placed that a train have to travel first through the Waiting Bay to Reach the Station this Way (it is also an example to show the different Module Parts working together):
    Station-Modules

    The following Stations are for Remote-Mining Outposts on a Straight offshoot Railway Section:
    • Universal Item Station Load / Unload (Load/Unload Multiple Items at the same Station)
    • Mine-Outpost Station with automatic Re-Supply (Ammo,Repair-Kit, Bots etc.)
    • Uranium Mine-Outpost Station with automatic Re-Supply (Ammo,Repair-Kit, Bots etc.) and acid sulfur Re-Supply

    The Stations are designed for high throughput Bulk-Goods with 8 Stacking Insertes for each Wagon.
    The Buffer Chests are loaded balanced with MadZuri's Balanced Loader Circuit. I tried the same for the Liquid Handling and added some circuit controlled pumps to fill/empty the tanks balanced.
    To assure that the Buffer chests are unloaded/loaded balanced a 4 Belt Balancer for each Side is integrated in the design. I think this will be changed in future Versions, because a 8to8 Balancer must set before the TrainStation anyway...

    Since I use the LTN Mod and the Stations are designed around it I use some circuit Logic to make it easier to use, for more Details read the Topics on the LTN-Mod Page.

    To Set up a Requesting Station (Unload) after Building via Blueprint you must set the LTN-Parameter:
    • Item Type to Request (Replace X-Placeholder-Signal with Item-Signal (any Amount) )
    • Stack Size of Item (negative S-Signal) (used by combinators to calculate Request-Size and Buffer-Fill-Level (with Lamps))
    • Train-Limit, Pre-Set to 2 -> you need 1 Waiting Bay for each Train-Limit beyond 1 (i.e. Train-Limit 3 -> 2 Wating Bays for Station in Waiting-Bay Stacker) for each Station in Stack! (Don't forget to add one extra Waiting-Bay for Exit-Trains if you use no Short-Exit, else it could cause Deadlocks)
LTN-Parameter Unloading
On the Loading Station I used some circuit magic to prevent the Station from loading my Player-Train full with Items I don't want if i travel there.
The other purpose is that the Station loads only the Requested Delivery-Size on the train.
Loading-Unloading Stations,Screenshots are not updated yet...
Last but not least the LTN Train System cannot function without Depot where all Trains are Waiting for Delivery Orders.
I used the perfect Design by Optera from his LTN Demo Map with universal Fuel-Loading.

The Depot has the same length as the Stations -> the Station Entry/Exit Module can be used for the Depot too as shown in this example:
(Don't forget to give all Depot-Stations the same name!)
Depot
I made a LTN-Station TestMap with
- working Depot with Fuel-Re-Supply and Trash-Provider
- Smelter - Unloading (Iron Ore)
- Mine-Outposts (Iron Ore)
- Uranium Ore-Outpost with attacking biters nearby (showcase sulfuric acid and ammo etc. re-supply)
- Universal Mall-Station
You need the Creative Mode Mod for the TestMap.

LTN Station Blueprints with all Stations and Entry/Exit Railway Parts:
BB_LTN_Stations_V1.6.2.txt
(90.3 KiB) Downloaded 2334 times
It is also available at factorioprints.com now.
Last edited by Odhrean on Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:20 am, edited 41 times in total.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by quinor »

Big thanks from me for refining the system! I did not have the patience to make straight rails and T intersections be pastable on each other and I'm glad it works now. I personally did not use the curved piece but it's great to have it. Does it paste over with T intersection too? The pedestrian crossing is a very nice addition I again did not have the patience to make :) The high-throughput cross is very big but it probably has to be this way...

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean »

Curve was not pastable... but the Idea is so good that i changed Curve, T-Junction, Straight and Crossing in the Blueprint.
Now they are pastable :) (see Picture in first Post)

The high-throughput cross is indeed gigantic big.... not sure if i'll use it myself but at the center of the factory eventually helpfull.
At least it is chunk-aligned and can be easily used in an chunk-aligned Factory build.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by dee- »

Well done!

I was in the process to create a chunk-aligbed railsystem myself, with 8-blue-belt load/unload stations with led indicators and everything -- I think I can now stop that :D
The modules you created are very very similar to mine so I can drop my designs in peace.

Would you like some screenshots of my designs in your thread? I'd be happy to maybe inspire you as I'm probably switching over to use your blueprints (I'll have a look on the used mod)

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Lemlin »

I really like these designs, so much easier if you can change a curve/straight into a juntcion without changing anything.

How well does the station designs work with vanilla? Would they work even without the mod?
I might take your blueprints and remove the LTN parts, so I don´t want to ruin anything.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by quinor »

Slimey wrote:I really like these designs, so much easier if you can change a curve/straight into a juntcion without changing anything.

How well does the station designs work with vanilla? Would they work even without the mod?
I might take your blueprints and remove the LTN parts, so I don´t want to ruin anything.
If you'd do, I'll be glad to see them!

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean »

dee- wrote:Well done!

I was in the process to create a chunk-aligbed railsystem myself, with 8-blue-belt load/unload stations with led indicators and everything -- I think I can now stop that :D
The modules you created are very very similar to mine so I can drop my designs in peace.

Would you like some screenshots of my designs in your thread? I'd be happy to maybe inspire you as I'm probably switching over to use your blueprints (I'll have a look on the used mod)
I must confess that i used your Station-Designs from this Thread as Basis so you already inspired me :-D
I am proud if you use this Designs and if you have better Ideas for the circuits and designs post it here. I am always happy to improve them and let inspire me if others have good ideas and designs.
Slimey wrote: How well does the station designs work with vanilla? Would they work even without the mod?
I might take your blueprints and remove the LTN parts, so I don´t want to ruin anything.
The LTN-Parts do the following:
  • Provide Items to the Logistic Train Network (Positive Numbers at LTN Input)
  • Request Items from the Logistic Train Network (Negative Numbers)
It is a joy to play with the mod so I recommend you try it.

If you replace the LTN Stations with normal Stations you'll have to
  • Rewire the Circuit Network at the Loading Stations to get the functionality that the Player Train is not loaded with items (could be that this will be difficult...)
  • Rewire some parts of the cicuit Network so the the buffer-level-indaktor function correctly (i think it should work)
    Thinking about it i think that the level indikators will work with vanilla stations without rewiring anything at the unload stations....
    The only signal that is used by the LTN-Station is the Request-Amount which is part of the buffer level indikator.
    Of course you have to remove the constant signals for the LTN Parameters (if they are imported as strange signals because they are not there...)
    But the amount-control constants "S" and "C" can be used for vanilla as well....
I think it is possible to use this Station Designs with vanilla Stations and get some benefits from it
  • You still have a slim Station with high throuphput
  • You sill have the functionality for balanced Buffer Chest Load/Unload
  • You still have the Buffer level Indikator
So, please try it and post your designs here if you want

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by dee- »

Odhrean wrote:
dee- wrote:Well done!

I was in the process to create a chunk-aligbed railsystem myself, with 8-blue-belt load/unload stations with led indicators and everything -- I think I can now stop that :D
The modules you created are very very similar to mine so I can drop my designs in peace.

Would you like some screenshots of my designs in your thread? I'd be happy to maybe inspire you as I'm probably switching over to use your blueprints (I'll have a look on the used mod)
I must confess that i used your Station-Designs from this Thread as Basis so you already inspired me :-D
I am proud if you use this Designs and if you have better Ideas for the circuits and designs post it here. I am always happy to improve them and let inspire me if others have good ideas and designs.
Well, I knew I've seen that station layout somewhere before :D

However I'd propably remove the station's belt balancer to after the station so mixed trains remain possible when using the blueprint. You can just add it later upstream within the 4-belt-stream.


I've got here pictures of a 4-belt-to-1-type (older design) and 8-belt-to-4-type (newer design) loading stations, maybe you can put those to use?

They're designed to evenly load the buffer chests, so maximum throughout from chests to carriage is remained without some chests becoming empty too early.

Image

Image

They can probably be redesigned to just have 4 instead of 6 stack inserters per carriage side (it's still based on the blue inserter design, when stack inserters were not in the game), which opens up more room for belt routing and does not need the evenly-1-to-6-splitter anymore.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean »

You balanced the Buffer Chest Load with belts.
My aproach is to do this with MadZuri's loading design.
It works well and leads to balanced chest loading even if a train with only 2 Wagons should load (the inserters are disabled if chest count is higher than the average).
The other advantage is that the station is slim because no complicated belt design is needed.
I am quite happy with the current Station design and will play with them now... took me some time to make this blueprints (mostly reading and understanding other designs and putting them rounded together).

This stations design is intended that they only load/unload one item (mainly i don't want think about complicated LTN Setups yet) and i wanted one design where everything i need is included.
Perhabs I'll make multiple Item Stations with LTN later.



I just added my Testmap as download to the first Post if someone is interrested to see this in action.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by quinor »

After some testing, there are certain problems with your intersections. If train is taking turn on the T one, train in the other direction can't take same path (it's blocked) even though their paths don't intersect.. Becouse of that, the throughput is often poor. Are you able to fix it?

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Kormer »

What's the benefit of being "chunk-aligned"? I'm familiar with minecraft chunks where especially with mods, weird stuff happens with multi-block structures straddling a chunk boundary on occasion. Is there anything similar in the factorio world where keeping everything on a chunk matters?

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by quinor »

Nope. But it's very convinient to build stuff chunk-aligned, then if you leave X chunks of free space you're sure that your stuff will fit.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean »

quinor wrote:After some testing, there are certain problems with your intersections. If train is taking turn on the T one, train in the other direction can't take same path (it's blocked) even though their paths don't intersect.. Becouse of that, the throughput is often poor. Are you able to fix it?
Thank you very much for testing this Design so rigorous. I could re-produce this issue with another Test-set up and re-worked the T-Junction.
This new Version has better Throughput and is still pastable over the new Curve and Straight which are re-made es well to fit the new Junction.
new T-Junction.png
new T-Junction.png (382.84 KiB) Viewed 47730 times
The Blueprint-String (v1.1) is uploaded at the first post.

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean »

Made a major overhaul of all Stations in OP because after the Changes in Logistic Train Network 1.3 thy didn't work.
Now they have much better logic and use Nixie Tubes für Fill-Level Display (Loading and Unloading Stations).
Added new Station-Types for Universal Load/Unload and a Outpost Mine Station which automatically request Supplies if running low (Repair-Kits etc.)

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by trqwe »

I like it! By the way, your high throughput cross seems like it can support a 7 car buffer. Why don't you do LCCCCCL instead?

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by ElGaucho »

This is an awesome extension, i really like the way intersections are designed - we are running a huge base with this and it works. Nevertheless, we're struggling with Fluids. We've used the loading and unloading bays you are providing for all of our liquids.

We are expecting two different issues:

1.) We often get messages like "[LTN] Creating delivery from X to Y: -200 Lubricant". After that, trains only being capable of transporting solid goods (and not fluids) are send to those stations. Maybe this is a bug in the LTN mod, but i'm not sure if we did something wrong wiring up the stations. We have replaced the "X" with the negative amount of the fluid, e.g. X = 1 replaced with Crude Oil = -200k.

2.) We've spotted several trains leaving the unload (!) stations with still some fluid in them, causing issues on the other stations as they unload those liquids if the storage tanks ran dry.

Any known issues or did we do something completely wrong? Would be awesome if you could provide some information on wiring up the fluid stations

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean »

trqwe wrote:I like it! By the way, your high throughput cross seems like it can support a 7 car buffer. Why don't you do LCCCCCL instead?
In fact i never used the high throughput cross myself and only added it because i thought it might be good... i changed it to be chunk-aligned so it is a bit longer. I never designed it to match this LTN Stations exactly (LCCCL)... perhapbs i'll remove it sometime..
ElGaucho wrote:This is an awesome extension, i really like the way intersections are designed - we are running a huge base with this and it works. Nevertheless, we're struggling with Fluids. We've used the loading and unloading bays you are providing for all of our liquids.

We are expecting two different issues:

1.) We often get messages like "[LTN] Creating delivery from X to Y: -200 Lubricant". After that, trains only being capable of transporting solid goods (and not fluids) are send to those stations. Maybe this is a bug in the LTN mod, but i'm not sure if we did something wrong wiring up the stations. We have replaced the "X" with the negative amount of the fluid, e.g. X = 1 replaced with Crude Oil = -200k.

2.) We've spotted several trains leaving the unload (!) stations with still some fluid in them, causing issues on the other stations as they unload those liquids if the storage tanks ran dry.

Any known issues or did we do something completely wrong? Would be awesome if you could provide some information on wiring up the fluid stations
You are using the Liquid Request Stations as intended. It is important that at the Provider-Stations the Provide-Threshold is set high enough to not trigger small devliveries and at the Request-Stations the Request-Threshold high enough. If you use the Station from this Blueprints (Version 1.3+) this should be pre-set... (100k)
There was a major Change at how LTN works in Version 1.3 and i changed all the Station to match this. If you use old Station-Designs somewere it could lead to small deliveries because the Provider-Threshold is not set.

I just released Version 1.4 of the Stations (See Changelog in OP). I made a small change on the Liquid Loading Stations, but only on the Loading Side...
There is a known issue that Liquid Stations will sometimes leave a small residue if you use them with only 1 Pump. Thats one reason i use 3 pumps.. to not leave residue. It should not happen, Strangly I don't have the issues you are mentioning.
The Circuits leave the pumps activated until no residue is on the train (calculate what should be on the train after leave minus what is actually on the train)
... this was changed on the new LTN Stations aswell... perhaps you have old Designs somewere?

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by ElGaucho »

Sorry my fault! After checking multiple times the stations, we found out that we were lacking of one combinator. In addition, we (somehow) mixed up the threshold and set them to a negative -100k - was really hard to spot as the text was kinda overlapping. So if anyone runs into the same issues - make sure that your thresholds are high enough (as mentioned by OP) and that they are positive, not negative.

Cheers mate, awesome work. :)

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by Odhrean »

No.... my fault... the negative Request-Threshold was pre-set on the Blueprint..., i simply overlooked the small - ... :|
Thank you for the hint, i corrected the Blueprints in OP

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Re: Chunk-aligned modular railway system with LTN Stations

Post by adamcirillo »

I'm using the universal loading station with the bots I seem to have a problem with the ores getting stuck on the inserter hands then the next train that comes through gets the wrong ore mixed with it?

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