New class of vaults- a big one

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Harbinger
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New class of vaults- a big one

Post by Harbinger » Tue May 09, 2017 1:48 pm

Hello factorio community, i was wondering if we can have in the game another vault with more capacity, for example

Prime Vault: 2x2 size on terrain
10x10 capacity of storage,
And each cell of storage can stack like 1k of the same element

I sory about my english, i AM from argebtina

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Re: New class of vaults- a big one

Post by Tekky » Tue May 09, 2017 6:46 pm

Angel's Warehouse mod seems to be exactly what you want.

Also, you may be interested in this link collection regarding warehouses.

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Re: New class of vaults- a big one

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Wed May 10, 2017 12:19 pm

I think it's reasonable to make the Steel Chest 2x2, it then distinguishes it from the Iron Chest and a bunch of new possibilities becomes available (eg having a machine both insert into and withdraw items from the chest, such as for Kovarex Enrichment, or to allow trains to insert into each other).
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New building: warehouse

Post by Pat4yczek » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:07 pm

Hi everyone.
I think a chest have not enough space, so a good idea will be put the warehause as a new object in game.
For example could required 2x2 space and have 4 times more space for stuff like a steel chest and have filters like cargo wagon.
About build requirment, think 20 concrete, 5 steel plates and 1 andvanced circuit will be fine.

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Re: New building: warehouse

Post by Tekky » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:59 pm

This has already been suggested many times, for example here:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47053 New class of vaults- a big one
EDIT: Since the threads have now been merged, my above link now points to the current thread.

The thread I posted above also contains links to more threads and also at least one mod.
Last edited by Tekky on Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Warehouse/mass storage

Post by n7m6e7 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:49 am

What?
A 2x2 or 3x3 storage chest to hold more stuff (not more inventory slots)

Why?

So you can have more than 4 inserters filling and unloading it, ability to store more per tile, more interesting ways to split supplies.


How?

I now know that having more inventory slots on something kills UPS . However, is it possible to just have a higher item stack cap in a particular building? Like allow a 500 iron plate stack in a building, so it has the same number of item slots, but can store more of a particular item.
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Re: Warehouse/mass storage

Post by zOldBulldog » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:02 pm

Under the current design items get stored in slots by stacks and stack size.

They would need to change that design to something else, maybe a slot stack size multiplier (if you still want different items in a chest) and/or treat a chest as a single huge slot/stack when the chest holds a single type of item. I think that is probably the only way to avoid the UPS drain and still support larger chests.

As to simply having larger chests as you describe (if you can live with the UPS impacts) then the Warehousing mod is the answer.

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Re: Warehouse/mass storage

Post by Hannu » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:03 pm

There should not be any real need for such stores in vanilla game. If you need buffers of hundreds of thousands of items or extremely high throughput through them you have some severe design flaws or very special personal opinions, in which case I recommend mods.

Fortunately, there are very good mods for exactly your needs, for example:
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/anoyomouse/Warehousing

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Re: Warehouse/mass storage

Post by n7m6e7 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:42 pm

I've seen the warehousing mod and heard horror stories of UPS drops.

I like having larger stores, so I can completely mine out an area as quickly as possible, without waiting for a chance to consume that material. I.e. I like to mine more ore than I can smelt, so when I upgrade my smelting, its immediately well-fed.

As for the current system, why can the character only have a stack of 1 artillery shells, but the gun can hold a stack of 10, and the wagon itself, a stack of 100?
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Re: New class of vaults- a big one

Post by Koub » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:22 pm

[Koub] Did a bit of merging on topics with very similar subject.
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Re: Warehouse/mass storage

Post by zOldBulldog » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:33 pm

n7m6e7 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:42 pm
As for the current system, why can the character only have a stack of 1 artillery shells, but the gun can hold a stack of 10, and the wagon itself, a stack of 100?
I hate that weird artillery stacking too. But it does seem to indicate that different stack handling for a given item is possible at the core code, which might allow solving some of these "large store = bad UPS" problems.

But did you just say the artillery wagon can have a stack of 100? I have been using static artillery guns and supplying them with trains (where cargo wagons have stacks of 1).

As crazy as it might be, this indicates that there is no point to ever use static artillery guns... the artillery wagon is its own cargo wagon and gun in one, with a capacity higher than the regular cargo wagon!!! Just set the artillery wagon on the same route as your shells refilling trains and done.

I don't know if this is what was wanted, an unintentional design flaw or an exploit... but I'm totally going to use it. RIP static artillery gun and supply trains :)

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Re: New class of vaults- a big one

Post by n7m6e7 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:51 pm

I was going off the wiki.

But yea, if the game allows for different stack sizes in different containers, why not have a specialized container with less slots but bigger stack size?

The only issue I see (by which I mean, I as a player who has never delved into actual code) , they would have to modify the stack size of every item in the game for this thing, unless its easy to tell it that it can hold (default stack size X 10) .
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Re: Warehouse/mass storage

Post by Hannu » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:43 am

zOldBulldog wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:33 pm
As crazy as it might be, this indicates that there is no point to ever use static artillery guns... the artillery wagon is its own cargo wagon and gun in one, with a capacity higher than the regular cargo wagon!!! Just set the artillery wagon on the same route as your shells refilling trains and done.
Static artillery is practical in "artillery turret creep". Just build small fence, couple of gun turrets to protect from revenging biters, put artillery and destroy all nearby biter bases. It is good especially in modded games which make atomic bombs more expensive or they need later technology. Of course it would not be much harder to build couple of tracks and put rail cannon on it, if there was no static gun.
I don't know if this is what was wanted, an unintentional design flaw or an exploit... but I'm totally going to use it. RIP static artillery gun and supply trains :)
I guess that they just made normal turret and added a rail cannon without thinking. Maybe rail cannon could be weaker (for example has smaller range) than static turret to compensate easy automation.

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Re: New class of vaults- a big one

Post by n7m6e7 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:24 pm

I'd also like to add, just having a storage container that has a footprint bigger than 1X1 would open up a world of creative uses.

For example, when loading up trains, its an absolute nightmare to load it up equally. In example, lets say I have 6 inserters ready to load a train from 6 chests. How can I load these chests equally, so when the train arrives, i dont have to wait for the one overfilled chest to be unloaded by a single inserter?

Dividing a belt into 3's is possible, but not perfect (which drives me crazy) , using circuit logic works fairly well, but its a bit unstable (add up all the chests contents, divide by 6 to get A(verage), disable inserters if their respective chest has more stuff than the average....but i think its something to do with rounding where sometimes they will lock up)

With a 2X2 footprint, I can easily load the chest from up to 5 spots, and unload it equally from 3
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Re: New class of vaults- a big one

Post by zOldBulldog » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:01 pm

I have been doing research on options available today that can be used until such a day when the overall need is addressed in the core game somehow.

Here are a few options I found that might help with the various needs that a large size/capacity chest might address. Looking at how these options solved part of the issues should help brainstorm.

- Diagonal tracks with stack inserters between them: some people asked for 1x2 chests to allow easier unload from trains or transboard between them. Diagonal tracks allow single spacing between trains, making regular stack inserters viable.

- Mini loaders mod. Allows very efficient loading/unloading/balancing with exactly the number of belts you want, without loosing throughput to balancers, and without UPS hit.

- Modular Chests and Merging Chests mods. Allow for chests that are bigger than 1x1. I suspect they suffer from UPS issues as they provide more slots.

- Warehousing mods (there are several). They definitely have reports of UPS problems, but they have nice sizes and capacities.

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Re: New class of vaults- a big one

Post by Hannu » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:42 am

zOldBulldog wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:01 pm
- Warehousing mods (there are several). They definitely have reports of UPS problems, but they have nice sizes and capacities.
Does it prevent UPS problems if you limit the chest to small number of slots? It I think ways to program that kind of functionality, there should not be need for check forbidden slots.

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Re: New class of vaults- a big one

Post by zOldBulldog » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:47 am

Hannu wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:42 am
zOldBulldog wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:01 pm
- Warehousing mods (there are several). They definitely have reports of UPS problems, but they have nice sizes and capacities.
Does it prevent UPS problems if you limit the chest to small number of slots? It I think ways to program that kind of functionality, there should not be need for check forbidden slots.
I thought so too. But somebody mentioned that since you can take out items from the blocked/red slots it is very likely that the code is still checking every slot, even the blocked ones.

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Re: New class of vaults- a big one

Post by n7m6e7 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:05 pm

zOldBulldog wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:47 am
Hannu wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:42 am
zOldBulldog wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:01 pm
- Warehousing mods (there are several). They definitely have reports of UPS problems, but they have nice sizes and capacities.
Does it prevent UPS problems if you limit the chest to small number of slots? It I think ways to program that kind of functionality, there should not be need for check forbidden slots.
I thought so too. But somebody mentioned that since you can take out items from the blocked/red slots it is very likely that the code is still checking every slot, even the blocked ones.
Yea, the "blocked" slots are only blocked from inserter access. You can still store stuff in the red slots manually.
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Re: New class of vaults- a big one

Post by Koub » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:30 pm

n7m6e7 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:05 pm
Yea, the "blocked" slots are only blocked from inserter access. You can still store stuff in the red slots manually.
And only for insertion purpose. If I remember correctly, inserters take from red slots, but can't fill them. Si I guess, upon insertion, only unblocked slots should be checked, whereas upon pick-up, all occupied slots should be checked (at least).
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