Ore patch size shrinks with distance

[Lastmerlin]

I used RSO to generate a world with excessive and huge ore depots (common strategy). To achieve this, I modified some parameters in the config file:

Code: Select all

starting_richness_mult = 2            -- multiply starting area richness for resources
global_richness_mult = 100            -- multiply richness for all resources except starting area
min_amount=10000                                      -- default value for minimum amount of resource in single pile
richness_distance_factor=2.0  -- exponent for richness distance factor calculation

Things working nicely:
Ore patches have huge amounts of ore per tile. They grow quickly to even more insane values in moderate distance (up to 7-digit numbers).

Unexpected and completely dissatisfying: The area (number of tiles) decreases with distance, making the ore patches inattractive for a megafactory (even though the contain a huge amount of ressources).

See the attached image. Where I stand is my starting location (to be precise, its a bit more south-east of that, where my factory is located). You can easily see how size decreases with distance. The same thing happens in the south and east direction as well (not show in screenshot). This seems clearly systematic.

Why that? Is that intended? Did I miss a parameter the controls the size distribution over distance?

[orzelek]

There is a size_distance_factor just below the richness_distance_factor?

I would not recommend playing with it to much - big ore fields tend to get buggy above certain size.
You could use global_size_multiplier and get it to 2-5 maybe. It might still bug out on those values.

Why your few fields are so big I have no idea. There should be no such disparity and such big starting ore field is really strange - they have predefined size.

I'd be interested in your mods+save or map string to check out why they are so big.

[Lastmerlin]

Sorry for the rather late answer.

Here is the map exchange string:

Code: Select all

>>>AAAOABUAAAABAgYAAAAEAAAAY29hbAEFBQoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AQUFCQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAEFBQoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAgMFCAAAAGl
yb24tb3JlAQUFBQAAAHN0b25lAQUFq77y4ICEHgCAhB4AAwFpJ51f<<<

I attached my config file. The rso version is 2.2.7 . Hope this helps

[orzelek]

I tested with those settings and I have slightly different patch sizes in approximately same areas. Those huge ones are a bit smaller - did you per chance create the map first with different setting then edit config file after that and scouted more terrain?

[Lastmerlin]

I am pretty sure, I didn't do so. I edited the settings first and explored a number of maps in order to find an appropriate one for my planned megabase. The scouting was far enough to see these huge ore patches, but not far enough to see this loss of patch area over distance. After finding this map I did not touch the config anymore. But it's possibie, that I updated the version of RSO since then. I automatically updated some mods using the ingame menu to play with friends. I believe that I excluded the RSO mod, but cannot guarantee so. Does this overwrite the config? It does not seem so, because the file was on disk as I modified it and the insane increase in depth over distance was retained.

However, a change in version might be a reason. I have been playing this map since end of October 2016, perhaps you can deduce the approximate version number (I dont know it exactly, sorry). My current version is 2.2.7 .

[orzelek]

Patch size shouldn't consistently shrink - it will vary between large less dense fields and smaller more dense ones. Thats by design.
There could have been slight tweaks to generator during versions so it's possible something changed a bit. Main thing for me was to check if that big field was in starting area - it's not so there should be no issues.

If you find out that when you are going further out fields keep decreasing let me know.

[staviq]

Hi, i'm having the same problem, except i did not modify any setting.

The further i get from the starting area, the smaller ore patches are, up to a ridiculously tiny ones.

[orzelek]

Thats strange... and I have never seen it in my tests. And richness seems to go up as it should only size goes down.
Can you post your log file and map exchange string?

[staviq]

Thats strange... and I have never seen it in my tests. And richness seems to go up as it should only size goes down.
Can you post your log file and map exchange string?

I'm uploading the save file and logs do dropbox and will update with the links, but it will take a wile over my potato internet connection.

Here is the map exchange string:

Code: Select all

>>>AAAPAAYAAAABBAcAAAAEAAAAY29hbAEEAwoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AQQDCQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAIEAwoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAQIDCAAAAGl
yb24tb3JlAQQDBQAAAHN0b25lAQQDCwAAAHVyYW5pdW0tb3JlAwMDj5
n/VYCEHgCAhB4AAwABAQF7FK5H4XqUPwEAAAAAAAAuQAEAAAAAAADwP
wEAAAAAAFi7QAEAAAAAAOCFQAEAAAAAAFirQAEAAAAAAIjDQAEAAAAA
AECfQAEAAAAAAEB/QAEAAAAAAECPQAEzMzMzMzPzPwEzMzMzMzPzPwF
7FK5H4Xp0PwEAAQAAAAAAAAhAAQAAAAAAAAhAAXsUrkfheoQ/AQABAQ
GN7bWg98bAPgH8qfHSTWJgPwFpHVVNEHXvPgEAAQcAAAABAgAAAAECA
AAAAZqZmZmZmbk/AQAAAAAAAABAAQAAAAAAAOA/AZqZmZmZmdk/Ac3M
zMzMzOw/AQUAAAABFAAAAAFAOAAAAcBLAwABEA4AAAGgjAAAASAcAAA
BAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAFEABZmZmZmZm9j8BMzMzMzMz4z8BMzMzMz
Mz0z8BAAAAAAAACEABAAAAAAAAJEABPAAAAAEeAAAAAcgAAAABBQAAA
AEAAAAAAAAAQAEBAQAAAAAAAFlAAQUAAAABGQAAAAEAAAAAAAAkQAEy
AAAAAQAAAAAAAD5AAWQAAAABmpmZmZmZyT8BMzMzMzMzwz8BMzMzMzM
z0z8BMzMzMzMz0z8BAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAANEABAAAAAAAAPkABAA
AAAAAAFEABAAAAAAAAPkABAAAAAAAAJEABAAAAAAAACEABCgAAAAFkA
AAAAWQAAAAB6AMAAAEAAAAAAADgPwHQBwAAAQAAAAAAQH9AAwAAAAAA
AAAAAAAA8D/wKdEM<<<

Edit:

save file:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ooc5ntw81639t7h/15_7.zip?dl=0

logs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jh3sqwirl0vjr ... t.log?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9yh05zpi87ibb ... s.log?dl=0

[orzelek]

I loaded the save (not all mods present - only few) and triggered a regenerate.
Resource patches were recreated as much bigger in same area - it looks like different settings were used when generating them initially in that area.

If you played around with generation settings in any way result could be visible later when you actually fin location where resource is.
Do you recall doing any config changes or mod setting changes?

[staviq]

I loaded the save (not all mods present - only few) and triggered a regenerate.
Resource patches were recreated as much bigger in same area - it looks like different settings were used when generating them initially in that area.

If you played around with generation settings in any way result could be visible later when you actually fin location where resource is.
Do you recall doing any config changes or mod setting changes?

I think it's worth noting i started this game right after the very first rso release for 0.15.

I do not recall any config changes other than those i made many months ago, and have since then redownloaded my mods when 0.15 was released.

I did however notice a change in ore patches size after one of rso updates, after starting this particular game ( newly discovered areas having much smaller ore patches ).

EDIT:

I have also noticed that if i start a new game with the same map exchagne string, i now get starting area resources, and nearby resources in different places than when they were when i started playing this map.

[staviq]

Ok, so i have now loaded the same save i have sent You, and did

Code: Select all

/c remote.call("RSO", "regenerate", true)

which i presume is the way to regenerate ore patches.

And now absolutely all ore patches are teeny-tiny and all the previous patches have disappeared.

However,

Creating a new map, with the same map exchange string does give me completely different ore distribution and size, and it all seems normal.


So the question is, does the save file remember mod settings and somehow managed to fuck it up ?

[staviq]

I have realized that the "true" parameter rerandomizes generation seed, and tried again without it, and now the ore patches reappeared in the same place, but still, tiny, all of them.

I have tried increasing size modifier in mod config, and then regenerating, without any improvement.

I have deleted the rso mod completely and downloaded it fresh from the mod portal, tried to regnerate again, and still, all ore patches are way too small to be usable.

this is what i get, after redownloading the mod, and regenerating, near the starting area:

[staviq]

I have found the problem.

RSO conflicts with the Nanobots mod.

I have cleared the whole %appdata%/factorio, run the game to recreate the files, copied my test save, and redownloaded all the mods.

Then i enabled and disabled all my mods one by one.

With the Nanobots enabled, ore patch regenerates to this:


With the Nanobots disabled, it regenerates to this:


I'm going to let the Nanobots dev know too.

[orzelek]

Wow thats a nasty one.
Thanks for the investigation. It's pretty strange effect for mod interaction issues - to reduce size of ore patches.

And it might be even more tricky - I downloaded nanobots and I have normally sized ore patches on new map... starts to seem like 0/1 Magic category.

[Nexela]

https://github.com/Nexela/Nanobots/issu ... -298795834

Yeah I don't have any idea what it could be either

[staviq]

I have updated the issue on Nexela's github with more details.

https://github.com/Nexela/Nanobots/issu ... -298802135

What i think is important now, is that the issue is not entirely deterministic, but it is most certainly there.

It's about 3 hours past midnight where i live, so i'm off for today, but tomorrow i can investigate and test more, if you are willing to continue.

[orzelek]

I have updated the issue on Nexela's github with more details.

https://github.com/Nexela/Nanobots/issu ... -298802135

What i think is important now, is that the issue is not entirely deterministic, but it is most certainly there.

It's about 3 hours past midnight where i live, so i'm off for today, but tomorrow i can investigate and test more, if you are willing to continue.

I'm at around 4 am here and I found out that there are some sheneingans with can_place_entity and create_entity. They tend to... not match in same location and lie sometimes (in can_place_entity). It might not have anything to do with issue you are seeing and I'll need to write up a bug report for those to devs.
A bit accidentially your map gen string provides really good reproduction case.

[Nexela]

can_place_entity and create_entity

Keep in mind can_place checks collision and create_entity does not.

[orzelek]

can_place_entity and create_entity

Keep in mind can_place checks collision and create_entity does not.

Thats the main reason why I use it - and it turns out it was my bug

@staviq
Can you check RSO settings in game and double check they are what you think they should be?
I have some reports of settings not syncing over multiplayer on mod portal so it might be that they go bad in single player.