Eliminate "empty" technologies

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Sente
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Eliminate "empty" technologies

Post by Sente » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:29 pm

Currently there are a few technologies that do not unlock anything by themselves (advanced electronics 2, flammables, laser, flight, and modules) and only serve as gateways to other technologies. In essence, they are there only to use up science packs as a prerequisite for later technologies. I think it would be better if these technologies unlocked something to use or the cost of these technologies were merged into the later technologies. As it currently stands, you don't feel any sense of accomplishment researching those specific technologies whereas you always get something from other technologies. Also, it doesn't really make sense that you "researched" or "discovered" something and have exactly nothing to show for it.

One solution is to get rid of these "empty" technologies and just transfer the research costs from these "empty" technologies into the subsequent technologies that they unlock. On average, it would equate to about the same amount of resources/time for the player to unlock the subsequent technologies. Another solution is to move some of the unlocked items into the "empty" technologies so the player actually gets something (i.e. move flamethrower and ammo into "flammables" and keep flamethrower turret under "flamethrower" technology). Another is to create new items for the "empty" technologies.

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Re: Eliminate "empty" technologies

Post by ssilk » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:23 pm

In one of the last FFF's the devs mentioned to do some fixes with the tech-tree.
All in all I find this is not really an issue, it depends on taste.
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Re: Eliminate "empty" technologies

Post by Sente » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:29 am

I agree it's not a major issue. Although it usually feels much better when there are no empty technologies you have to research. I made this suggestion now precisely because of one of the last FFF mentioning the science revolution. I think it is a perfect time to address the empty technologies while updates are made to research anyway. Personally, when I have to research one of the empty technologies, it feels almost like a waste of time.

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Re: Eliminate "empty" technologies

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:26 pm

I don't mind them when they unlock several different researches. Advanced Electronics for example unlocks six researches and works as a sort of gate into that branch, so it takes a fair amount of research to unlock say stack inserters but then when you need electric engines you can get there much more easily. You can kind of consider it "shared" research so your labs aren't researching the same thing over and over.

However when you look at something like the Laser research, all it does is unlock research for the Laser Turret and Military 3. Of all the Military 3 products only Combat Robotics 2 would need lasers so it could potentially be moved to there, don't know if it would be healthy for CR2 to require Laser Turrets so that the Laser research can be deleted so this is a bit of a grey area.

Then you look at Flammables and it's basically a useless research. All it does is unlock the Flamethrower and Rockets, and (even if they do fix rockets so they're not totally useless) most players don't want a flamethrower AND rocket launcher, at least not right as the research becomes available. So this I think is a fairly unhealthy research and should have its costs merged into its dependants.
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Re: Eliminate "empty" technologies

Post by Sente » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:53 am

Well, Advanced Electronics is not an empty technology. You can build advanced electronic circuits and processing units. But Advanced Electronics 2 doesn't have anything. Maybe move the processing unit to Advanced Electronics 2 from Advanced Electronics? I am not currently aware of what may need processing units right away after you research Advanced Electronics.

Flight only goes to logistics robots and construction robots. I actually just realized that Flight and Robotics are both required for logistics robots and construction robots. Furthermore, Flight and Robotics ONLY lead to logistics robots and construction robots. Might as well just merge Flight's research cost into Robotics. There is literally zero need for Flight.

The Modules technology goes to Beacon, Speed/Efficiency/Productivity Modules. Maybe just split the research cost four ways?

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Re: Eliminate "empty" technologies

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:31 am

Ah, my bad, Google listed Advanced Electronics first and I forgot lol. It unlocks flight (which I agree is totally useless), beacons (which I rarely use) and the rocket silo. Perhaps not one of the greater offenders but still not great.

Yeah I always found it weird that processing units were unlocked with advanced circuits.
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