Missing item in 0.13 changelog

[TheSkiGeek]

A number of people have posted over on the subreddit being very confused about the new biter spreading mechanics (i.e. "victory poles aren't working anymore, is this a bug?")

I was going to direct them to the changelog, but there's no mention of this change in the 0.13 changelog! This is a highly visible change, and it really ought to be mentioned.

[Miravlix]

It seems really weird to changelog this, since the "fun" is to discover it while playing.

So glad the bad victory pole system is dead, it was a really awful system, after the players figured out how it worked.

[TheSkiGeek]

I think it's a good change too. But if they're documenting dozens of balance changes, this seems like a pretty substantial oversight to not mention at all. It's the sort of thing that can significantly affect converted saves.

[orzelek]

I needed to observe this one (RSO bugged it badly) and it's actually quite nice now.

First group of biters will go to the place (marked by blinking circle if you have debug enabled) and sit there for a bit. Then they will start constructing new base spawning new turrets and spawners slowly.

[Mion]

Please explain, what is "victory poles"?
I think that I know this, but don't know that THIS strategy named "victory poles".

[DanielCoffey]

The strategy was that (pre-0.13) biters would not build a base within a certain number of map chunks of a non-polluting player object. This meant that you could wipe out a base, whack down a box or "victory" wooden pole and they would never come back. You could also spread out a long line of forward bases that were 2x that distance apart and biters would not base build any closer to your factory.

Now the biters ignore the objects, you will see them moving between bases again (have a look at Bentham's 0.13 stream video in the FF this week). It means we have to put bases more closely together and use more walls.

[authorized411]

Here are my observations...
(Mine and mine alone, no internet research, and sorry for the length)

First, my map settings on my first major 0.13 play through:

• Low terrain segmentation
• Low frequency for all resources, including biters (RSO-like but no RSO)
• Low water
• Big starting area
• No Mods

I am currently trying to get the Lazy Bastard (no crafting) achievement and as a bonus, trying to for no solar nor laser turrets. I had an extremely slow start due to not crafting and have had plenty of opportunity to fight biters for survival and deal with big worms without tank shells nor power armor. I got poor oil at the start and it became too expensive to craft tank shells. I fought tooth and nail against them using defenders then eventually distractors + poison to take out the bigger biter bases and big worms. After teching up for the Mk2 power armor and modules, I put all my resources, the little I had, in to crafting said power armor and modules for it.

Now that's out of the way, here's what I've observed. I've been playing with the show enemy spawn chunks on from the debug window (F4). I have found that biters will migrate from a big base (20+ spawners) outwards. I don't know if 20 is a specific number, but after I take out these large base it takes them a while to migrate in that area. I've also killed off their "outposts" in the area as well. I have another 0.13 map where I have observed what appears to be absolutely no migration. My only assumption is that I've pushed the biters back far enough away from my pollution. It was easier to observe this on this second map because I started by forests. I choose poorly on my current map (where most of these observations come from) and got a desert so I have not observed this yet.

Here's some notes I've observed on the enemy spawn chunks shown on the map:

• No circles - no chance for migration
• Green - good candidate for migration
• Yellow, Orange, Red - lessening candidacy for migration (this includes player structures). Even though players structures make it a less chance for migration does not mean they will not attack it. Remember, there is a biter base close enough for the circles to appear over said structures.
• Flashing circle - chosen spot for migration and will after X time or just migrated

One of my goals is to test the no migration theory. I plan to push back the green circles until none of them are in pollution and then maybe a bit further. If any one else wishes to test, then I urge you to try and report your findings.

[Mr. Tact]

I have them pushed WELL beyond where my pollution is -- and I have actually walled my entire area. The circles extend well over the walls. However, past that my interior is clear. As I said in another topic, I consider the game to be more about logistics than alien fighting. This change pushes alien fighting more to the forefront.

candidate chucks.jpg (159.29 KiB) Viewed 4874 times

[MobRules]

Do we know if they still need to be able to path to an area to migrate there-- i.e. will a wall prevent migration across it (at least, unless they are provoked by pollution or the player to attack it)?

[5thHorseman]

Do we know if they still need to be able to path to an area to migrate there-- i.e. will a wall prevent migration across it (at least, unless they are provoked by pollution or the player to attack it)?

I asked this specific question and got a specific answer. Conveniently it all starts at the top of the page (with default post numbers)
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=27249&start=10#p173418

Or for the no-questions-left (For me) post:

I think I'm misunderstanding migrating. For you, does "migrating" and "spawn a new base somewhere near another base" mean exactly the same thing?

I don't actually know how it used to work. I'm fairly new (I don't even have triple digit hours into the game yet!) and currently my only interaction with biters is that they attack my stuff and I attack their stuff.

It means, that enemy bases don't just pop into existence. A biter has to "plant" the new enemy base, if there are turrets it will fight and (hopefully) die instead and no base will be created.

tl;dr yes, they must path.

[MobRules]

I asked this specific question and got a specific answer. Conveniently it all starts at the top of the page (with default post numbers)
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=27249&start=10#p173418

Thanks!

Since reading this, I also saw a Reddit post claiming that they will break down walls to migrate (i.e. if an undefended wall is in their way, they will tear it down, even if they aren't on the way to attack a base otherwise. So they have to migrate, but undefended walls aren't failsafe, even against bugs that aren't currently on the warpath.)

I'm sure I'll find out soon enough if the reddit post is correct; I've been limiting biter spread by mass-producing walls and building them all over (on a map with Very Large bodies of water to provide lots of choke points). It takes me longer than some people to get my military going properly, have to slow them down somehow in the meanwhile

Though, I've taken out a bunch of bases in my way that were small enough for me to handle, which means that all of the nearby bases that are too big for me to deal with yet (even with the smallest biters/spitters) are now getting more powerful bugs... I really need to learn to put a greater focus on military right from the beginning.