Intermediate fluids as items

[EstebanLB]

I believe that the biggest issue so far is that there are many producs that needs to be crafted at chemical plants just because one or two of the ingredients require a liquid or a gas. What I think suits best the gameplay is that most of those ingredients should be able to be contained in a tank or a barrel but with the capacity of just one unit. Chemical plants should do just that, refine fluids to convert them into some other fluid, not manufacture intermediate or finished products like engines or circuits.
The problem is that if we need to craft empty barrels to transport crude oil, de we need to craft empty containers for just one unit of intermediate fluid? Can we have the chemical plants output the finished fluid as item into a magic-noncraftable container?
So I propose using contained fluids as items past the 3 basic oil products, thus making Sulfuric Acid and Lubricant output as items, not liquid so we can craft all the derivative products in assembling machines. Plastic bars, sulfur and the explosives(compound?) make sense that are made in chemical plants, the others doesn't.

What do you think?

[immibis]

Alternatively, let assembling machines connect to pipes.

[slpwnd]

Alternatively, let assembling machines connect to pipes.

That is the plan for new assembling machine 2 and 3. Not sure when it is coming, but it is. This would be used for recipes like: barrel loading / unloading, electric engine units, etc.

[EstebanLB]

Alternatively, let assembling machines connect to pipes.

That is the plan for new assembling machine 2 and 3. Not sure when it is coming, but it is. This would be used for recipes like: barrel loading / unloading, electric engine units, etc.

I hope that it won't make the game too difficult by doing it that way because the pipes are not so efficient like the inserters which only take the necessary items from the chest depending on the recipe selected in the assembly machine. But what I know for sure is that having all those pipes going into the assembly lines will force us to think different ways to do the layout of the complex, especially the compact ones
Restructuring will also be a problem because the fluid cannot be recovered when deconstructing a loaded pipe or assembly machine, that's why I thought of having the intermediate fluids as items, it brings so many solutions with so little effort

[immibis]

Alternatively, let assembling machines connect to pipes.

That is the plan for new assembling machine 2 and 3. Not sure when it is coming, but it is. This would be used for recipes like: barrel loading / unloading, electric engine units, etc.

I hope that it won't make the game too difficult by doing it that way because the pipes are not so efficient like the inserters which only take the necessary items from the chest depending on the recipe selected in the assembly machine. But what I know for sure is that having all those pipes going into the assembly lines will force us to think different ways to do the layout of the complex, especially the compact ones
Restructuring will also be a problem because the fluid cannot be recovered when deconstructing a loaded pipe or assembly machine, that's why I thought of having the intermediate fluids as items, it brings so many solutions with so little effort

I don't think they want fluids to be exactly the same as items... if they did they'd just make them items instead. Loss is an unavoidable thing when working with fluids. Good thing they're infinite!

[kovarex]

Yes, that is true, we made fluids because we wanted to have the player think about different setups, with transport belts, inserters and pipes on top of it.
If we made all the intermediate fluids as items, it would be the same like before, just combining assembling machines and transport belts.

[Sir Nick]

Alternatively, let assembling machines connect to pipes.

That is the plan for new assembling machine 2 and 3. Not sure when it is coming, but it is. This would be used for recipes like: barrel loading / unloading, electric engine units, etc.

And then what will the difference be between chemplant and AM2,3?

[immibis]

Alternatively, let assembling machines connect to pipes.

That is the plan for new assembling machine 2 and 3. Not sure when it is coming, but it is. This would be used for recipes like: barrel loading / unloading, electric engine units, etc.

And then what will the difference be between chemplant and AM2,3?

Chem plants process chemicals. Assembling machines assemble things, some of which require chemicals.

[sparr]

Alternatively, let assembling machines connect to pipes.

That is the plan for new assembling machine 2 and 3. Not sure when it is coming, but it is. This would be used for recipes like: barrel loading / unloading, electric engine units, etc.

And then what will the difference be between chemplant and AM2,3?

AM2,3 don't have pipe outputs.

[AlexPhoenix]

sure, what diference will be?
just assembler machine with another name?

at now, chemical plant is coded as very flexible assembler machine, which can accept both liquids and items.

fluid as items for transport belts?
nah, i'm agains that, this will ruin realistics part, barrels(but need for all) is enough.
or may be i dont understand idea?

what can be done exactly with saving reality is allow AM to accept liquids for recipes, but via pipes as must be.

[EstebanLB]

Yes, that is true, we made fluids because we wanted to have the player think about different setups, with transport belts, inserters and pipes on top of it.
If we made all the intermediate fluids as items, it would be the same like before, just combining assembling machines and transport belts.

Ok, you convinced me there and left me happy with that argument but it makes me wonder about the new assembling machine graphics, I don’t see any pipe entrance on the sides. Is Albert planning to modify them in the future?

[Sir Nick]

AM2,3 don't have pipe outputs.

As posted by slpwnd,

This would be used for recipes like: barrel loading / unloading, electric engine units, etc.

Thus AMs WILL require pipe outputs, if they are to unload barrels.

Chem plants process chemicals. Assembling machines assemble things, some of which require chemicals.

Yeah, that's more like it.

[slpwnd]

Ok, you convinced me there and left me happy with that argument but it makes me wonder about the new assembling machine graphics, I don’t see any pipe entrance on the sides. Is Albert planning to modify them in the future?

In 0.9.2 new assembling machines will have a pipe output (made as a graphical patch) when they need it (that means when they have a recipe that requires it). This will move some recipes from the chemical plant to the assembling machine (electric engine unit, barrel manipulation, processing unit).

[EstebanLB]

Ok, you convinced me there and left me happy with that argument but it makes me wonder about the new assembling machine graphics, I don’t see any pipe entrance on the sides. Is Albert planning to modify them in the future?

In 0.9.2 new assembling machines will have a pipe output (made as a graphical patch) when they need it (that means when they have a recipe that requires it). This will move some recipes from the chemical plant to the assembling machine (electric engine unit, barrel manipulation, processing unit).

Awesome! But what about the batteries? Please, make them craftable at assembling machines not chemical plants! As a rule of thumb I think that if a chemical is not transformed into another chemical, then it belongs to the assembling machine, am I right?

[Sir Nick]

Ok, you convinced me there and left me happy with that argument but it makes me wonder about the new assembling machine graphics, I don’t see any pipe entrance on the sides. Is Albert planning to modify them in the future?

In 0.9.2 new assembling machines will have a pipe output (made as a graphical patch) when they need it (that means when they have a recipe that requires it). This will move some recipes from the chemical plant to the assembling machine (electric engine unit, barrel manipulation, processing unit).

Will it appear at a fixed place, or will we be able to move it? Also, if ever an assembly recipe requiring two liquids comes into being, will the outputs be movable? (The ever-present Refinery Output Hassle)

[sciencemile]

Well, Crude Oil can become an item, so long as you put it in a barrel. It'd be nice if we could use barrels for other liquids as well, if it doesn't mess with your intentions for liquids too much. Liquid Cars for trains would be fine too though but the barrel system already seems to be in place.

Basically I've got in my head the idea of Processing the Crude Oil and then Shipping the three Fuels off to separate facilities; every time I try to have it all connected at one place it's a horrible jumbled labyrinth of pipes

[robhol]

Agreed. I'm trying to build my first hydrocarbon plant and it's best described as... an unholy abomination. Between the counterintuitive fluid/pipe system, the fact that they block the player etc., they're a bit of a pain.

[ssilk]

Use the underground pipes.

[BurnHard]

need flat walkable pipes

[just_dont]

Use the underground pipes.

But it's not enough!
Underground pipes are barely enough to get all the required routing, and when you finish laying down all those 4- or 5- pipes T-sections and cross-sections, there's barely enough (or "just not enough") place to walk.