[MOD 0.13.x] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Topics and discussion about specific mods

Should I create a landfill?

Poll ended at Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:40 am

Yes - but be selective on what can go in
1
10%
Yes - any intermediates
3
30%
Yes - but require something (wood?) to dispose of products.
2
20%
No - maybe call it something else (please specify in thread)
0
No votes
No - not at all.
4
40%
 
Total votes: 10

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[MOD 0.13.x] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:16 pm

Type: Mod
Name: CMHMod
Description: My take on balancing Bob's Mods. Reduced number of ores, multiple production choices for plates. Harder end-game rocket production.
License: This document is Copyright ©() () () and is the intellectual property of the author. It may be not be reproduced under any circumstances except for personal, private use as long as it remains in its unaltered, unedited form. It may not be placed on any web site or otherwise distributed publicly without advance written permission. Use of this mod on any other website or as a part of any public display is strictly prohibited, and a violation of copyright
Version: 0.1.0
Release: 0.0.1
Tested-With-Factorio-Version: 0.12.35 (should work with 0.12.xx)
Category: (Alpha, Item, Gameplay)
Tags: Bob's Mods balance, CMHMod, Harder end game, multiple smelting possibilities.
Download-Url:
for factorio version 0.12
for factorio version 0.13
for factorio version 0.14
Website: none
Pre-requisite mods: boblibrary, bobores, bobplates, bobelectronics, bobpower
Recommended mods: bobmodules, bobtech, bobwarfare
License
Long description
Bobconfig note
Pictures
Version history
Specific changes planned or done
Last edited by CMH on Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:08 pm, edited 46 times in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:04 am

Took less time than expected.

Here's the first draft.

Feedback appeciated :D

New features being contemplated will be added to "Specific changes planned or done", so check there.

Would like to thank bobingabout for writing an awesome mod and all the help in the writing of this mod as well
Would also like to thank Arch666Angel for helping me understand some of the coding.

Latest release is on first post.
Attachments
CMHMod_0.0.2.zip
Outdated release
(33.87 KiB) Downloaded 100 times
Last edited by CMH on Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by safan » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:27 am

just some feedback, based on your description:

Angel's mod does the most things you want with the part before "plates" so i would let that part go and concentrate on the part after "plates" and provide a good compatibility

Some higher end modules for the rocket seems a good extra challenge. you can either change the stats of the god modules, or reduce the module slots to 1 per machine. Dont forget the satelite.

gr and success

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:25 am

Angel's mod is different in the sense that he adds refining processes. "Will change the output of the Iron and Copper fields to a raw ore which has to be refined before it can be smelted to plates"

My idea is to add more options to refining. Similar to Bob's advanced copper. It doesn't add any extra steps, it's an alternative recipe with its pros and cons.

So instead of direct copper ore>copper plate, there's an option for copper ore (plus others) > copper plate + cobalt. This process produces copper plates faster using less ores, which is good. But it produces cobalt, which has limited use (or not as much as copper plates) leading to a buildup of cobalt which eventually brings your production to a halt.

I'm expanding this line of thought to produce more stuff which has limited use.

With the changes in rocket production:
There is a huge increase in the use of Titanium, aluminium, nickel and gold (from updated electronics)
Eventually I will figure a good alternative production of these plates to also produce zinc, cobalt, silver and tungsten. Or just mix them around. My problem of course will be to try and provide an interesting mix of options available, without it being too complicated.

What do you think? Does Angel's mod still do this (Real question, I haven't played his mod).

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:49 pm

New version up.

Any suggestions/balance just post here :D

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:24 pm

Got a few new things to add to the next release:

1. Using fast accumulators - to add lower-tier electronics to the requirement of launching a rocket. Battery requirement is reduced as a result.
2. Reducing the raw modules - gives you an incentive to choose regular modules for certain applications.
3. Increasing the nickel usage in recipes - in this case: advanced lead processing. Would try and add nickel to any recipe that would make sense. Possibly increase nickel usage in other recipes too.
4. Increasing battery production times - They're on 0.5 sec (at least in my version). Might be an oversight, but I'll change it in my mod.
5. Adding Sodium Hydroxide to Crude oil processing - I think this is considered a drastic change, and the old recipe will be re-written with this. Anyone playing Bob's mods will find that there's always TOO MUCH Sodium Hydroxide. This should help lower it. If possible, I would like my mod to finally require players to want to create MORE Sodium Hydroxide to the point of venting chlorine. Also, I will be giving people the option of using liquid sodium hydroxide, which means a new recipe to create it (probably in chem lab). My beef with this is that Sodium Hydroxide should be in liquid form: that's how it usually is in the industrial world, but I accept that not everything makes sense: some of the recipes in this mod probably don't :P

Also, if anyone has any suggestions, happy to hear them.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:34 pm

New Version Up.
Version 0.1.0.

Changes:
1. Using fast accumulators - to add lower-tier electronics to the requirement of launching a rocket. Battery requirement is reduced as a result.
2. Adding Sodium Hydroxide to Crude oil processing
3. Renamed old Sodium Hydroxide to Sodium Hydroxide Crystals to differentiate from the new Aqueous Sodium Hydroxide which is the same in fluid form. Did not add water requirement to change to fluid since I did not want to add any complexity in this extra step (feedback?)
4. Added Sodium Hydroxide requirement to Coal cracking.
5. Also added option for Aqueous Sodium Hydroxide for Coal cracking.
Attachments
CMHMod_0.1.0.zip
(37.17 KiB) Downloaded 81 times

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:15 am

New Version Up
Version 0.1.1

Changes:
Combined modules stats reduced to 75% of original.
Nickel requirement doubled for advanced lead processing.
Production times for Bob's batteries (Li-ion and ZnO) updated to equal vanilla batteries.
Hydrogen to Solid fuel now requires 3x coal. Slight advantage to use if you have any modules.
Attachments
CMHMod_0.1.1.zip
(37.2 KiB) Downloaded 205 times

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by archont » Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:04 pm

First, rebalancing the endgame for bobs mods is a GREAT idea. I've won the game before I knew it, all the fancy materials were just filler and now there's an actual reason to build them.

A couple of points:

- Anything to tone down god modules or are they still game-breakingly OP?

- Any way to remove dependancy on bobs modules and use stock ones? In particular, either remove god module requirement or bobs module requirement altogether?


- While usage of sodium hydroxide for oil processing makes sense from a purely gameplay perspective, the actual result is, if I'm not mistaken, a particularly foul kind of soap. A new reciple might be needed (or research on where naoh makes the most sense)

- Silver and gold could be merged into one material considering how little they're used

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:16 pm

archont wrote:First, rebalancing the endgame for bobs mods is a GREAT idea. I've won the game before I knew it, all the fancy materials were just filler and now there's an actual reason to build them.

A couple of points:

- Anything to tone down god modules or are they still game-breakingly OP?

- Any way to remove dependancy on bobs modules and use stock ones? In particular, either remove god module requirement or bobs module requirement altogether?


- While usage of sodium hydroxide for oil processing makes sense from a purely gameplay perspective, the actual result is, if I'm not mistaken, a particularly foul kind of soap. A new reciple might be needed (or research on where naoh makes the most sense)

- Silver and gold could be merged into one material considering how little they're used
I have toned down god modules. Positive effects are now 50% as large, and I have also increased energy requirement from -100% to +100%. I might change some more negative effects (pollution?)

I can try and code in something so you can use stock modules if god modules are disabled (you can disable them using bob's mods, library or config). I'm not pro with coding, but I think I can easily copy off what bobingabout has done in his own mods.

The usual result for sodium hydroxide in oil processing is an industrial waste product that is high in sulfur (it is a de-sulfurizing process after all). I did toy with the idea of producing sulfur with it, but my thoughts are that there's already 3 outputs. Adding a 4th might just make things really really messy.
Also did think of producing sulfuric acid (which is a bit of a jump, but I claim artistic license) instead of petroleum gas.

Now with the silver and gold: Terrific idea. As far as I know silver is only used in his solar panels, but I would still have to change quite a few items, so give me some time with this one.
I do want an alternate production with gold though (right now it is silver). Any suggestions?

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by archont » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:19 pm

As per landfill idea - the interesting solution would for it to work like treefarm, in that it occupies increasing land area, depending on how much input went in. When the counter for input items rolls over, it spawns a Waste object in the nearest free space - essentially an extreme HP rock that loses HP over time and emits pollution. There could be a separate counter and Waste object type for more dangerous waste too, like sulfur, sodium hydroxide, oil barrels..

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:24 pm

archont wrote:As per landfill idea - the interesting solution would for it to work like treefarm, in that it occupies increasing land area, depending on how much input went in. When the counter for input items rolls over, it spawns a Waste object in the nearest free space - essentially an extreme HP rock that loses HP over time and emits pollution. There could be a separate counter and Waste object type for more dangerous waste too, like sulfur, sodium hydroxide, oil barrels..
Sounds like an excellent idea, but I feel that is way over my head to produce. My original idea was to code the landfill alike what bob has done with voiding, with a new building and such.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:04 am

archont wrote:- Silver and gold could be merged into one material considering how little they're used
Actually, having another look at it I've made a mistake, I was thinking of electrum.

Silver has many different uses, just not very heavy ones. However with my mod, there's a bigger requirement for AgZn batteries, so that alone would make the case for silver.

I threw in the Electrum > gold ore + silver plate to reduce one ore, and make things a little more interesting, since both gold and silver will be needed in different amounts for the rocket. Time to balance up those production lines :D

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by elsasha » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:06 am

hello I have a problem, I really want this mod, and I have all dependencies, but when I open the game I get an error that says "Error in assingn ID, item with Name 'science-pack-4' does not exist" How can I fix this? :cry: :cry:


Image

:cry: :cry: :cry:

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:18 pm

Working on a fix, but right now it seems another dependency is bobtech.

Trying to fix it by removing the dependency, so it'll change the requirement if there is no bobtech.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

If you don't play with bobtech, here's an early draft of version 0.1.1.

Changed science pack 4 to alien science.
Added option to play without god modules/combined modules (enable or disable within bobconfig)

Edit: Draft version removed. Issue fixed in future versions.
Last edited by CMH on Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:06 pm

Got the fix!

New Version Up
Version 0.1.2

Changes:
Tidied the code up a bit more - for those who like looking at lines of code. Also easier for future me to edit.

Changed rocket silo ingredients - requires tungsten pipe and advanced electronics now. Decided against changing steel.

If bobwarfare is installed, radar mk 5 is a requirement for satellite instead.

Removed bob-module requirement - Rocket control unit now requires speed module 3 if bobmodule is not installed.

Added option to disable God Modules - If you disable god modules (using bobconfig), Rocket control unit will use Raw speed module 8 instead. Just a reminder that God modules are nerfed in this mod since version 0.0.1[/b] You may disable combined modules too, and use Speed module 8 instead. Just a reminder Combined modules are nerfed in this mod since version 0.1.1

(Previously unknown) Bobtech requirement removed - Titanium Aluminium co-smelting now require Alien science if bobtech not installed.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:31 pm

0.13 update might take awhile.

Been busy for a bit, and I realised I'm having trouble getting Bob's mods working, which means I can't test my mod.

I'll try and get it up before next weekend.

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:05 pm

0.13 update is up.

New Version Up
Version 0.2.0

Changes:
Rocket silo requires tungsten pipe if the right bobmod is installed - not sure which mod tungsten pipe is actually in. Regardless it would work now.

Download can be directly from in-game, or click the link as usual.

REQUIRES EXPERIMENTAL FACTORIO VERSION 0.13.X

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Re: [MOD 0.12.30+] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by CMH » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:47 pm

New Version Up
Version 0.2.1

Changes:
Bugfix: rocket silo should now support 4 ingredients. (I don't have a savegame that far ahead yet for 0.13 to test. Thanks to pyrolytic_tungsten for spotting this bug and the fix.)
Nickel fields removed.
Galena now provides lead ore and nickel ore.
Ratio lead ore:nickel ore reduced - to promote the use of lead solder recipe. Idea is to require both recipes going: lead recipe to produce enough nickel, and tin recipe if nickel production is adequate.

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Re: [MOD 0.13.x] CMHMod (my take on balancing Bob's Mods)

Post by Jools » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:16 pm

Hi CMH. Why did you enabled galena = lead + nickel (disabled by default in bobs)? Its messing up with filter system.

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