Smart Inserter unexpected behavior

[steinio]

Hello,

i don't get the logistic condition for my smart inserters.

I set as condition {item] < 10 like explained here: https://wiki.factorio.com/index.php?tit ... t_inserter and thought the inserter would only work if condition is met.

Instead it never stops...

So i put a red wire to the provider chest and now it never starts o_O

Could anybody explain please.

Greetings steinio.

[DaveMcW]

Active provider chests are NOT part of the logistic network.

If you want to use a red wire, set the circuit network condition.

[steinio]

Ok thanks.

This don't make sense to me but i accept it.

I changed it to a passive provider and red wires and use cuircuit condition - now it works.
My intention was to store all items on a central spot.

Greetings steinio

[orzelek]

It still seems strange - items placed in the active provider should be moved out to storage and they are part of logistics network then.
I think they are counted as in network when carried by bot so inserter should still work?

[siggboy]

If you don't connect the wire, and set the logistic network condition as you have, then the inserter will stop as soon as the cargo (smart chest in our case) reaches the storage. As long as the cargo is still in the active provider chest it won't be counted as part of the logistic network (neither will be items in requester chests, by the way).

If you have no storage chests then the item will never move out of the active provider and the smart inserter will keep working. So you need to put a storage chest somewhere in the logistic network so your robots can empty out the active provider.

Only stuff in storage chests and passive providers counts as "in logistic network storage".

[steinio]

OK thanks.

Had a storagem but the the materials on the way are also not counted?

I simplified my setup with passive provider and limit the chest to one stack.

Greetings steinio

[siggboy]

Had a storagem but the the materials on the way are also not counted?

Items inside robots are not counted (I think). Certainly items on their way to the storage are not counted.

I tried to make a detector for resources in my logistic storage. Because, in 0.12, you can not read the logistic storage directly into a combinator, I had to make a hack (I did not use the Logistic Combinator mod). So I programmed a smart inserter to move a marker item depending on a logistic network condition. (Bizzarely, in 0.12, the combinators cannot read logistic storage, but the smart inserter can, even without having a wire attached. Very confusing for beginners I assume...)

Sadly, in my contraption (moving the marker item), there always was a delay, because the marker item would not be moved before the first robot arrived at the storage, which would then update the count in the storage.

That's why I'm sure that items don't count until they are in the actual storage chest, even though the system knows that it's about to deliver the item into storage. I think it should count the items inside active providers as well as items moving inside the storage network to be "in storage". Only items that are to be delivered to requesters should not be counted as "in storage", because those items cannot be requested any longer.

In shorter words: any item that could theoretically be delivered to the character (or a requester chest) should, at all times, be counted towards the storage. But it's not how it works right now.

I simplified my setup with passive provider and limit the chest to one stack.

I always produce into passive providers for that exact reason (then you can simply limit the item count with the logistic condition). Limiting the chest to one stack is not needed, but that's even easier if the item is not super-valuable. Who cares if you make 10 of an item or 100?

Active providers work as well, though, you just have that delay because the robots move the item. It does not matter for low-value stuff like green circuits and such.

On the other hand, what would be the advantage of having the item in storage instead of inside a passive provider chest right next to the machine?

In both cases the item is available to consumers.

Also there's always some backlog in the assembly machine itself, which I find a bit annoying sometimes, with those items that are really expensive to build (like level 3 modules). I would be great if one could connect to the machine and tell itself to turn off when a condition is met; I'm not sure if that's one of the changes that we get in version 0.13.

[Shokubai]

I set as condition {item] < 10 like explained here: https://wiki.factorio.com/index.php?tit ... t_inserter and thought the inserter would only work if condition is met.

1) Remove the red wire. It's not a logistics thing.

2)Your problem is that the bots are not picking up your items from the active provider chest AND/OR they are getting used to make other chests as fast as you make them. Active Provider chests need Storage chests.
Logi Chests...
Active - PLEASE PICK UP EVERYTHING IN ME NOW!!!
Storage - Bots Store anything in me that doesn't need to go somewhere immediately (i.e. items picked up from Active)
Passive - Ill just wait here for something to ask for my contents. Things have to be intentionaly placed in me by inserter/character.
Requester - I need X specific items. BRING THEM NOW!!!

3) If you want a more immediate result on your logistics count, replace the active provider with a passive provider.

4) For very small stacks of things like 10 in your case. Limiting the chest is often simpler but you would want to do that with a Passive provider. Limits on inserters work best when you have say 10(or 100) Assembly machines making 1 item but you only want 100(or 20k) of said item in your network.

Something that may help you here is Advanced Logistics System. This mod doesn't change gameplay. It simply gives you a better tool to see what your Logi Network is doing.

[steinio]

Hello,

1: tryed with and without wire and with circuit and with logistic condition. As mentioned further the logistic network gets the amount to late for the inserter.

2: Sorry but this is totally clear and was not asked in this thread.

3: Yes changed lately as mentioned.

I know advanced logistics and use it for a while but this has no influence on the inserter.

Greetings steinio

Case closed.

[siggboy]

I know advanced logistics and use it for a while but this has no influence on the inserter.

Well, you wrote:

Instead it never stops...

but that can't be true, because it will eventually stop even if you assemble into an active provider chest -- given that there is some logistics storage in the network. So one could get the impression that you didn't even put down a storage chest along with the active provider, which in turn would suggest you do not know "advanced logistics", as you say

So please forgive us for being a bit more verbose in our explanations than might have been needed.

[Linosaurus]

I simplified my setup with passive provider and limit the chest to one stack.

If it fills up the whole stack of 50 even with the logistics condition set to 10 as in the first image, then something is strange. You might want to double check that both the chest(s) and inserter is within the orange area of a roboport network. I have sometimes had similar problems when I built one of the items just outside the orange area, or I temporarily removed a roboport, or the roboport had no power because I took a way a power pole that was needed (oops). These mistakes can happen.

Items inside robots are not counted (I think). Certainly items on their way to the storage are not counted.

I got curious about this so I did a test just now. Oh hey you are right.

A single roboport, 50 wood in an active chest, one storage chest. Mouse over storage chest says Logistic system storage: 50 wood.
Add one logistics robot. Mouse cursor over the storage chest now says 46 wood in network. It stays at 46 the whole time until the robot is done working, then it is 50 again.

New test. Empty the chests. Put 50 wood in active chest. Immediately after the mouseover says Content: 50. Pick up: 4. Logistics system storage: 46. This is while the robot is on its way for the first pickup.

Conclusion. Items in active provider chests are counted. Items that are designated as pickup/deliver are not counted, neither before pickup or while the robot is carrying it.

[siggboy]

Yes. I found that out the hard way when I relied on the items to be counted, but they weren't.

It also happened several times that an item was not listed when I was sure it was in the logistic network, but as it turned out it was already requested and then it disappears from the tally.

The game only counts items that could be picked up by a robot for delivery at that moment -- those are the items "in storage" (I'm pretty sure it also discounts items that are marked for delivery into a requester chest, even if the item hasn't been picked up yet).

[Linosaurus]

The game only counts items that could be picked up by a robot for delivery at that moment -- those are the items "in storage" (I'm pretty sure it also discounts items that are marked for delivery into a requester chest, even if the item hasn't been picked up yet).

Yeah. It even discounts with the full carry capacity of the bot that's on its way to pick something up, even if there aren't that many items in the chest. This can get a bit... funny.

Test: Added a requester chest that wanted 50 wood. Added one wood to active chest. Logistics network now has -3 wood total, until robot picks up the one and it changes to 0 total.